"I was referring to before Obama's presidency." So am I.
My grandson, who lost his job during the Bush presidency, and has either been out of work or working part time, is now back to work in his career profession in a private company whose business has improved. My neighbor's son was all grins last week because he too has been hired back by the same company that laid him off.
Our best friend's son is home from Iraq, where none of our military should ever have been in the first place and which drained the government of money and was a good part of the reason for our current deficit.
Those are my only personal "better than before Obama was president" situations, but multiply me by millions.
And go talk to those folks up in Michigan that got a bonus from GM. Let's see how well they think of you and your Santorum who was ready to throw them under the bus (Korean made, no doubt.)
GivinItTho't
03-01-2012 02:44 PM
Quote:
He's reformed the system to make it easier for people to go to school and constantly says how vital it is for higher education to be affordable.
How has he done this? Usually, his way of making things "easier" is to make people depend on the government.
Quote:
When you say "return to the way they were", you have to be specific of the time frame you want to return to.
I was referring to before Obama's presidency.
PAJess888
02-29-2012 07:04 PM
Quote:
Instead of encouraging people to be as successful as they can, he's encouraging them to just get by. I hope things return to the way they were. I've heard several people lately lowering their expectations. That's not good.
Except that's not what he's said at all!!! He has ALWAYS encouraged higher education (he was a professor). In his very first address to the joint congress (2009), he called on every American to pursue some form of higher education, including vocational training. Now, he's been called a snob for doing so! A large part of his stimulus package was geared toward education, including grants for mothers to go back to college. He's reformed the system to make it easier for people to go to school and constantly says how vital it is for higher education to be affordable. So if he encourages higher education, he's a snob, and if he says (realistically) most people just want to provide for their families and don't worry about being millionaires, then he's not encouraging.
When you say "return to the way they were", you have to be specific of the time frame you want to return to. Millions of people don't want to return to where they were when they were sold bad loans, lost their homes to be able to afford healthcare, were ripped off by the Bernie Madoff's of the world, etc.
Mr Sensai
02-27-2012 12:05 AM
Quote:
Instead of encouraging people to be as successful as they can, he's encouraging them to just get by. I hope things return to the way they were. I've heard several people lately lowering their expectations. That's not good.
He is being a realist!!! Why give false hope?
GivinItTho't
02-26-2012 04:26 PM
Quote:
Sometimes you fall when you're in rehab and sometimes you never quite walk the same. It may never be as it was, but maybe that's a good thing as it was greed that got us into trouble in the first place.
That sounds like something Obama recently said about how most people just want enough money to provide for their families and retire. Instead of encouraging people to be as successful as they can, he's encouraging them to just get by. I hope things return to the way they were. I've heard several people lately lowering their expectations. That's not good.
PAJess888
02-26-2012 03:39 PM
Pelosi's own advisers said it's one interpretation of the numbers. The point still remains, the economy was in terrible trouble long before Obama thought about being President. The republican answer was to cut taxes for the rich, and Bush had terrible job growth. The tax cuts simply did not create jobs like he promised. Not only did they not create jobs, but the cost of everything went up drastically during Bush's presidency from energy to food to healthcare. The thing that did not go up was wages for the middle class which increased the income disparity between workers and the 1%.
Since Obama's stimulus package passed, the economy has grown jobs. Obama stopped the bleeding, but sometimes, injuries take a long time to heal. Sometimes you fall when you're in rehab and sometimes you never quite walk the same. It may never be as it was, but maybe that's a good thing as it was greed that got us into trouble in the first place.
ZipLine
02-26-2012 01:48 PM
You are so right (ooops)! It was careless of me to select a site known for being more favorable towards the democrats than the republicans when evaluating the issues. Since FactCheck has the reputation for being unbiased, people can look at the issue more fully there instead.
I assume, since you are quoting politifact - the joke of the media industry - you meant for us to have a good giggle. Guess I'll skip downloading that message.
ZipLine
02-26-2012 09:25 AM
Pelosi is a typical politician in being selective in what she says and selective when using figures to spin her "truths." This may be of interest to others who wish to check the credibility of her statements:
People were saying the same exact thing in 2005. This is an article from the end of the year, the $4 gas prices were through the summer and people were still feeling the pinch months later.
Quote:
Problem is, consumer prices have jumped 4.3% the past year and gasoline prices are hovering above $2 a gallon.
"If you add up what it takes to get to work, as far as food, buying clothes, gas, car, everything, almost half of what I make goes into just" that, Harris says. "Things have to get better, because if they don't, I'm not going to make it."
Harris is one of millions feeling pinched in a time of plenty. Broad economic data show the nation in the midst of a four-year expansion with strong growth, low — though rising — inflation, a muscular housing market and robust corporate profits. But they also show that prosperity hasn't been spread evenly. The poverty rate has risen. Wage gains are among the slowest on record. Many corporate pension plans are in a death spiral. Health care costs are rising. The personal savings rate has fallen.
A separate government measure found wages and salaries for workers in private industry advancing at the slowest pace since its record keeping began in 1975.
Things were great on Wall Street then so politicians weren't talking much about it, but they were great because Main Street was paying for their multi million dollar bonuses. It's not a coincidence that CEO salaries skyrocketed in 2004 and 2005 while the worker's compensation shrunk. They started taking more from the worker and consumers to pay the CEOs. Someone had to pay for the rich getting richer. In 2005, a CEO made in one day what an average worker made in an entire year. This is a big reason why the great depression happened, and it's a big reason for the economic problems of today.
And jobs? From January 2001 until the end of his Presidency, the economy added 1 million jobs under Bush. In the YEAR 2010 alone, we added at least 1.1 million jobs. As Pelosi said, we gained more jobs in one year under Obama than we did during Bush's entire Presidency.
really???
02-25-2012 08:49 PM
"I know you said you were in college before Obama, but yes, it was this bad. Food prices, gas prices, healthcare, everything was just skyrocketing on people. "
I was far better off during the time before Obama. My bills were much more stable during the Bush era. My health insurance has gone through the roof! Food prices are at an all time high for me too. It's getting harder and harder to got to the grocery store each week.
After all this time you would think Obama would be able to do something to fix the economy. I have not seen any great improvement. Costs are going up and jobs are still not there! I surely wouldn't expect him to fix everything in his first term, but one thing would be nice!
PAJess888
02-24-2012 04:26 PM
I know many will find it surprising, but I was republican until I was about 22 years old. I was taught that they believed in our same values and my family was for republicans despite being union members, etc. They believed the republican myth that democrats were just lazy people who felt entitled to things. I started really paying attention to politics after 9/11 which happened when I was a freshman in college. I remember watching Bill O'Rielly for months as he was all over the 9/11 charities then. I feel silly now, but in the beginning Bush did a good job of selling the war to me. My views started to change when I had good friends in the wars because they told me the truth and taught me about the cultures of Iraq and Afghanistan and how badly the whole war was being handled. I started to understand the republican scare tactics, and the just the politics of it all.
Everyone in my family and in my husband's family is republican, except us. The only one who votes now, except us, is my sister and she lives in Arizona so she votes because of the immigration problems. No one else will even vote any more because of how extreme they seem to have gotten, especially with the tea party.
Quote:
Don't you see that these hard times have taken place during Obama's presidency? You seem to blame the Tea Party, but they're actually the ones who agree with you. If you want things to stay as they currently are, vote for Obama. I, however, am tired of it and would like an improvement.
The hard times started long before Obama even thought of running for President. The economy was "officially" in a recession as of December 2007, which means the hard times started years earlier for Main Street. A prime example: In Dec 2004, gas cost less than 2.00. By the summer of 2005, we were paying $4.00. All the sudden, the cost of going to work doubled for people, food cost more to transport, etc. It just got worse and worse. My step-father often jokes about his year of retirement because he had to go back to work! I know you said you were in college before Obama, but yes, it was this bad. Food prices, gas prices, healthcare, everything was just skyrocketing on people. Middle class people, like myself and family, and employers felt the squeeze starting long before 2007.
The economy was in a freefall for years as there was essentially no job growth during Bush's presidency. He was so wrapped up the war, Wall Street just did what they wanted. It pretty much hit rock bottom during Bush's second term. Don't forget that we were losing a million jobs a month when Obama took the Presidency in Jan 2009, not to mention all the bailouts, etc. Even republican economists agree that we would be in a deep depression if not for Obama's actions. He doesn't want things to stay as they are, and they haven't since we have been creating jobs each month instead of losing them the last few years.
Obama hasn't been as successful as Clinton was in cleaning up the republican's economic mess, especially in terms of the budget deficit, but Clinton raised taxes. It's the the republicans who opposed doing anything to save the economy. They didn't save it in 2005 or 2007 or 2009. They're not going to save it in 2012.
Valone
02-19-2012 04:51 PM
I have a couple of relatives who make 200K and above. We have had conversations about 'politics'. Last time we talked (they live in a different state due to taxes), he commented that he should be able to shop around for the best price in garbage men. My reply, 'so you would rather pay 50% less in garbage pick-up than allow a garbage man to support a family? Okay, he hasn't talked to me since...... but we do live in another state.
I also do not believe many of the things they fault democrats for. However, a third party does not seem to be a plausible alternative.
In Wisconsin, there have been some very vocal republicans who have vowed they will never vote republican again. Sure hope it is enough to win back the state.
Mr Sensai
02-19-2012 02:54 PM
My take is:
If you are gay the Republican party does not want you
If you are not religious the Republican party does not want you
If you are a minority the Republican party does not want you
If you are poor the Republican party does not want you
signing out
02-19-2012 01:50 PM
Obama may be president now, but he inherited this bad economy when he took office after Bush had messed the economy up. I think with the way the economy has gone downhill any president who had taken office when Obama came in would have been blamed for the bad economy. I don't believe the bad economy is entirely Obama's fault. Republicans are the ones who want to do away with welfare and anything that helps the poor. I haven't seen Democrats do the same.
ajmm115
02-19-2012 01:45 PM
"I don't think Republicans or Democrats can improve education. No politician knows what they are doing when it comes to education, so I don't expect to be satisfied by either side when it comes to education."
Very true. Bush's NCLB was/is a disaster and Arne Testemallthetime is possibly worse. The Education Dept. needs to be jetisoned. This is such a state issue. There are a few instances where the government needs to be involved in a small way, such as compensating school districts for the children from families living on military bases where there are no taxes paid. The school districts should not have to teach hundreds of children without some compensation. But otherwise, give them the boot.
"People voted for Obama and then complained when he ruined the economy, and now they are willing to do it again."
It hasn't been ruined (it definitely could have been handled better) and I voted for him and am not complaining about him for that reason. He should never have "given in" on eliminating the tax benefits for the wealthy and my god, anyone of us would have put better restrictions on the stimulus and not made it so broad.
I'd sure like to see the stats for your belief that it is ruined. Statistics, not rhetoric.
GivinItTho't
02-19-2012 12:11 PM
I also live in a community with few teaching jobs available. I'm currently working in a position that is temporary. Every education position I've had since I graduated has been temporary. The principals want to keep me, but they either have no money or the position is no longer needed. I don't know if it was like this before Obama's presidency or not because I was still in college at that time, but it certainly hasn't been good during it.
Quote:
But the tea party republicans don't seem to be doing anything to help education, don't care about helping the poor(against all welfare), and don't seem all that concerned about the middle class. They care about the rich, which is what they are.
I've been to several Tea Party meetings and I haven't seen any of what you just mentioned. I am concerned about the poor, and I help the poor. I consider myself middle-class, so I'm definitely concerned about the middle class! I don't think Republicans or Democrats can improve education. No politician knows what they are doing when it comes to education, so I don't expect to be satisfied by either side when it comes to education. You said the Tea Party is made of rich people? I'm definitely not rich, and the others I've seen in attendance at Tea Party meetings look like regular working people. You seem to have an inaccurate view of the Tea Party.
You're right in saying that the economy affects you personally. The Tea Party agrees with that and wants things to change and improve. Don't you see that these hard times have taken place during Obama's presidency? You seem to blame the Tea Party, but they're actually the ones who agree with you. If you want things to stay as they currently are, vote for Obama. I, however, am tired of it and would like an improvement.
People voted for Obama and then complained when he ruined the economy, and now they are willing to do it again. Do they think he's going to do something different with a second term?
ajmm115
02-19-2012 11:51 AM
I used to be a confirmed republican - worked for Goldwater and mostly voted republican. Not now.
"I always said that the Republican party left me, not the other way around! This party is a former shell of what made it great. Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Dwight Eisenhower are turning in their graves."
Oreo - so true. I was hoping a conservative would rise to the forefront. Hasn't happened. They're all catering to the extremists and forsaking the majority of America. I wish the dems would come up with someone other than Obama, but I'll vote for him as things stand.
Yet conservatives may be shocked to learn that their idol Reagan was once a union boss himself. Reagan was the only president in American history to have belonged to a union, the AFL-CIO affiliated Screen Actors Guild. And he even served six terms as president of the organized labor group. Additionally, Reagan was a staunch advocate for the collective bargaining rights of one of the world’s most famous and most influential trade unions, Poland’s Solidarity movement.
A president or governor or sentator does not need to be anti-union in order to "prove" he/she is a conservative. Yet that seems to be one of their de rigueuer requirements in this election cycle - not to mention for the governors, a reality in several states where republicans got that state office in the last. It's coming back to bite them in the pants. Hope it hurts and keeps on hurting!
oreocat
02-19-2012 11:26 AM
I always said that the Republican party left me, not the other way around! This party is a former shell of what made it great. Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Dwight Eisenhower are turning in their graves. I even believe that President Reagan would be appalled at what "his" party claims in his name. I am a Christian, but realize that what makes this country great is the right to practice or not practice a religion. The extreme religous right has taken over the party and canidates cannot get nominated without catering to them. This is why Romney is having such difficulty taking a lead. (I'm not a fan of Romney, but out of all the canidates still running, he is the least scary). Some of the ideas coming from Senator Santorum lately have been truly frightening. I cannot believe this is the 21st century. For a party that claims that they want to beat President Obama so badly, they have certainly failed to deliver a quality canidate that represents the majority of Americans.
As an aside, one of the last conversations I had with my grandmother before she died was how she was no longer a Republican and could not stand how they tried to push their religous ideals on others. She also did not like how they were starting their campaign against public schools. This was in 2006 and before this had always voted staunchly Republican. I am sure Grandma is also turning in her grave to see how further her former party has fallen.
peggy27
02-19-2012 08:50 AM
Welcome to the other side!! Democrats are not the horrible people they are made out to be. Our focus should be on helping those less fornunate, jobs, and affordable health care.
I hope you find a job soon, good luck to you.
signing out
02-19-2012 08:35 AM
I used to be Republican as I have some conservative values, but with the way the Tea Party republicans have taken over I have voted democrat on many elections now. I just can't see supporting candidates that have no concept of how the rest of american lives. Mitt Romney is one example. He only cares about the rich getting richer. Maybe I feel this way cause I live in a community with high unemployment and few teaching jobs available. To me the economy is much more important than rather a president is going to approove gay marriage (cause that does not affect my personal life). I care about whether or not I'll be able to get a job. I really can't believe I'm now voting Democrat cause I am conservative and against illegal immigration and any sort of amnesty, don't believe in affirmative action as I believe race shouldn't matter in you getting a job or getting into an university. But the tea party republicans don't seem to be doing anything to help education, don't care about helping the poor(against all welfare), and don't seem all that concerned about the middle class. They care about the rich, which is what they are. I have to say it wasn't until I got into teaching and couldn't find a job that I started really paying attention to politics. I voted Republican for years just blindly believing in those candidates cause they shared some of my conservative values (like being against illegal immigration). But when I couldn't find a teaching job anywhere I started seeing how the economy affects me personally.
