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spedder1's Message:

I'm watching the national news. At least 17 people are dead. I want to vomit.
Kathy

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Discussion Review (newest messages first)
CricketSong 02-15-2018 06:57 PM

I never get the " gun free zones" argument. Of course they don't stop criminals. But you can't say that this kid would be able to buy a 60,000 dollar gun. Black market items simply would be too pricey for someone working at the dollar store. The Vegas shooter could get black market guns. But not this kid. Would there still be gun crime? Yes. But criminals buying multi-thousand dollar weapons would be after big money, not school shootings.

doright 02-15-2018 05:37 PM

All about gun control and stopping the NRA’s condoning of violence.

Rkhnd 02-15-2018 05:19 PM

"We do NOT have the right to unlimited firearms wherever we travel. People who pass the scrutiny required can own a gun, not carry it everywhere"

I'm pretty sure the school was a gun free zone. I wonder why that rule didn't stop the shooter.

Lottalove 02-15-2018 04:34 PM

Here is another interesting article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.fae626fc560c

CricketSong 02-15-2018 03:54 PM

We have all been trained in lockdown procedures. We have all known in our hearts we might die trying to protect our students. We have all made plans in our minds as to how we can best save the children in our care should this come to us. We have continued to teach through these terrible realities. Many of us have lost sleep at night, or have known victims of these terrible acts. How could you even go there and still call yourself a decent human being?

With so many teachers who died protecting or trying to protect their students, how can you say all we care about is money? How can you reasonably say that?

Overlightnes 02-15-2018 02:50 PM

It all boils down to gun control nothing else.

However, on a lesser note I remember reading a quote somewhere that said something along the lines of, "In America, there is no distinction between fame and infamy." People are allowed to be as vapid, cruel, and violent as they want, and it elevates them because now they are famous/infamous which has no distinction in this country; just look at some of our leaders.

MissAgnes 02-15-2018 11:42 AM

I believe this all goes back to how society is raising kids (I'm not excluding myself here).
From an early age we are trying to protect our children from "negative" feelings. They are being told that it's bad to be angry, or sad, or disappointed. Everybody wins, no one should have their feelings hurt, and everyone should be happy.
But that's not life. Instead of trying to keep our kids from being hurt or disappointed, or angry, or sad, we need to teach them how to deal with those things. You lost the game? Yeah, that sucks. Feels bad, doesn't it? Let them feel those feelings, then give them the skills and space to learn how to cope!
We are raising a generation of people who have no resilience, no coping skills, and no idea how to deal with rejection, hurt, anger, sadness, disappointment. Without coping skills they are lost and scared, and have no idea what to do with the feelings. We do not expect them to take responsibility for their actions, or feelings. We do not teach them that they are in control of themselves, but rather someone else is responsible for how they feel. So why are we surprised when they take out their anger, frustration, rejection, disappointment on others? They've been taught their entire lives that their situation, their life, their troubles are the fault of someone else!

Add into that access to guns and you have the perfect storm.

I wish I had some answers, but I don't. I live in an area of high gun ownership, and very, very little gun control. You can buy a gun on craigslist or facebook. There is a ton of hunting. But we don't have many school shootings. Granted, our population is small. But I do believe that there is a lot of education from parents and families about responsible gun use and ownership.
My own teens have shot guns and have taken classes in gun safety. HOwever, due to mental health issues with one of my children, I do not allow guns in my home.

I think we need to take a hard look at what we are teaching kids about their emotions, and also need to take a look at gun control.

Tawaki 02-15-2018 09:03 AM

I'm shocked it doesn't happen more often.

Anyone who can fog up a mirror can get a weapon. If you fly below the threshold of mentally ill (it is almost impossible to declare someone too mentally ill to own a fire arm in my state), the sky is the limit legally. Sandy Hook, Vegas and this high school shooter, all the weapons were legally purchased. You can by gas masks and smoke bombs legally. You can buy parts to make a semi automatic on line, and anyone with a functioning brain can put it together.

If you have an "issue", it's the black market. You'll pay more, but you can get your sidewalk sweeper.

Americans love love love their guns and rifles. We love the idea of owning as much fire power as legally possible. We demand the right to buy whatever we fancy. We want them because we want them, and there will be hell to pay if anyone says, "Does that person really need 20 semi automatic rifles?" After all, who are they to judge?

This glorious vision of righteous people defending their home against the hoards and family bonding hunting experiences all goes to crap when you toss in extremely damaged people who fly under any sort of mental health trigger that would keep them from making a legal purchases. Those people too can get a sidewalk sweeper.

What is interesting, is the FL shooter didn't kill himself. So he'll get his15 minutes of fame in court, and probably screed about how the school sucked and wished he could have taken a few more out. Florida still has the death penalty. The tax payers will be funding this circus side show for years on appeals.

After Sandy Hook, it became pretty clear to me, the US will tolerate a person killing a decent amount of people, and not do squat about mental health access or any sort of fire arm restriction. My next door neighbor has a cache of fire arms. He's been hospitalized (voluntarily) for depression three times. I think he's a tin foil hat nut job, but per the law, he's perfectly fine to own his 25 weapons and cases of ammo. No, he doesn't hunt. No, he doesn't competitive shoot. I think he goes to the range every blue moon when the news starts getting squirrelly.

I don't think it's a teacher's job to solve this. Teachers don't legislate on gun control or mental health access.

bonteach 02-15-2018 08:56 AM

I am ridiculously disheartened that what was a painful, heartfelt dialogue turned into a bashing session from one. Thanks to those who remained civil in the face of judgement. You have my admiration.

It’s so very easy to make judgements from behind the safety of a keyboard. I really wish adults would stop and think before they ‘speak’.

SusaninNJ 02-15-2018 08:39 AM

The children in Parkland are speaking out about the need for gun control. I hope they can achieve what adults apparently can not.

GreenBunny 02-15-2018 08:34 AM

I read an article just this morning before I came here.

"Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns." When I read that line, my jaw dropped. 42 percent of the world's guns?!! The writer goes on to talk about mental illness, violent video games/movie, diverse population and according to his research, it's gun ownership regulation that is the problem. It's far too easy to get a gun in the US.

What can you do? Continue to contact the powers that be about gun control.

jazzer 02-15-2018 07:39 AM

Smurfty, you say that teachers are doing nothing about this and don’t care. What about you? You are a teacher too. If you are so above everyone else on here, why haven’t you solved the problem?

The only people who can change this are legistures and government leaders who have the power to pass new bills and they are doing nothing about that. Maybe top school administrators can offer training and counseling for mental health issues. The teachers are not allowed to do that without approval from upstairs.

As far as parents are concerned, no one can make a parent become a better parent and instill good values in his/her children. That has to come from within the individual. That is one I don’t have an answer to.

eliza4one 02-15-2018 07:05 AM

I have just read the most insulting, rude, disrespectful and hateful post I have ever read on PT. Which one I’m talking about is quite obvious. Congratulations Smurfy.

To use this tragedy to spew your hatred and “superiority” is disgusting. I imagine you’ve lost the respect of many PT years today. Your post did nothing to help make your corner of the world a better place. You merely continued to spew and thereby pass along the hate and anger so prevelant in our world today. Nice.

teachnkids 02-15-2018 06:51 AM

Quote:
. Teachers, who have such influence in numbers, largely are doing nothing to advocate for change and they don't get it nor see it. But if they want more pay, they will PROTEST in droves!!
Oh my! So this all boils down to teachers not caring enough. I call BULL ####!

We have little to no power in American schools. We are given too many students with little or no supports to help us.

Come to America and get a teaching job. I'm sure you will be running for the hills in a few short days!

Society here does not value teachers. We can raise all the stink we want about it, but it's not going to change a thing because we're not valued.

In my opinion, mental health help needs to be more readily available and accepting. Society needs to stop sensationalizing violence with movies and video games. Families need to parent again with good core values.

Last, but not least, gun restrictions need to be in place for these high volume devices. There is no NEED for these to be available to the regular citizens. Yes, I believe people have the right to bear arms, and should do so, but other than the thrill of being at a shooting range shooting a weapon of mass destruction is not a NECESSITY! Get your thrill some other way!
WalkDontRun 02-15-2018 06:38 AM

I don't know how to do quotes like Kahluablast and Zia, but the implication that teachers are self-serving and only rise up and protest for more pay is appalling. Many teachers have sacrificed their lives to protect their students during these horrific attacks--they are heroes in my eyes.

kerrysgirl 02-15-2018 06:19 AM

To Smurfy-
Teachers have very LITTLE power in the US. As far as "influencing," all any of us can do is pay attention to people who need help and try to get it for them. Unfortunately, lots of people write off mental illness as a "not my problem" or "I'm not trained" situation and the folks who need help don't get it.

Please don't act like it's the teachers' faults or like we're not saddened, worried, or scared every time this happens. We are. Most of us do what we can to encourage kids to speak up, handle problems, keep them in school because their homes suck so much, but at the end of the day, that's the only power we have.

Zia 02-15-2018 06:11 AM

I don't see how kahlua--or any of us--could have prevented this or a future attack. Writing our Congresspeople for gun control seems to be the limit of our influence? We are in as much danger as the students.

kahluablast 02-15-2018 06:01 AM

So, this is my fault? Thanks for the delightful response to my post. I have some words for you that I can't write here. People who post responses like this are exactly the reason I post so much less now than I ever did in the past. I hope it makes you feel like a better person.

Tiamat 02-15-2018 02:39 AM

"#America is a society destroying itself from within, an empire in decline, it can never be great again. A culture that loves guns more than children has no future other than corruption, decline and death."

(Gosford is a town just north of Sydney in New South Wales, Australia. The priest there is both socially and politically small-l-liberal). He is also right.

lpt 02-14-2018 08:57 PM

It's all very, very sad.

It's also very scary.

Today, people's lives were changed forever. My heart hurts for all of those involved.

WalkDontRun 02-14-2018 08:42 PM

My first reaction after so many of these senseless shootings, especially the unbearable heartbreak of Newtown has been why, oh why have we allowed the possession of the weapons of choice of so many of these shooters to be legal. I still believe there is absolutely no reason for anyone to own such weapons, but why is the trigger being pulled....

More and and more I am asking a different "why". Why are we experiencing so much more disregard for human life, so much senseless disregard. Mental health issues--possibly. But why such a sudden increase in mental health issues. Desensitization due to violent video games, the impersonal nature of society because of social media and technology. I have more questions than answers.

I have lived long enough to know this is not the way our world has always been. Yes, we have always had wars and yes the history of mankind is replete with horrific violence, but I had a sense of safety and well being in my first 50 years of life that I haven't felt in the last 10 years of my life. I also fear that we are becoming numb to all this madness......

Smurfyteach 02-14-2018 08:14 PM

Juliet4... I love you. xx

BioAdoptMom3 02-14-2018 08:14 PM

Way too much stigma towards mental illness, a broken mental health care system that is probably more broken that the people who are sick, lack of mental health funding which has been cut even further, very easy access to guns due to loopholes and allowing ordinary citizens to own assault rifles are all responsible for this horror! I know its not that easy and much more than the above needs to be addressed, but its a start.

Nancy

chalkdusty 02-14-2018 08:09 PM

Desensitization through violent video games. I think this is one factor as well.

1956BD 02-14-2018 08:06 PM

I feel part of the answer is more education about mental health problems. Hopefully with more education people will feel it is more acceptable to get help for metal health issues. Or they will see the signs in others and be able to seek help for them.

I feel that Americans in general are very critical of people who need medical care for mental health issues and this makes many people not seek the help that they need. It is definitely a problem in all branches of our military. If someone in the military even asks about help with depression their career is over as they will never receive another advancement.

Many of these shooters have shown signs of mental health problems before their attacks. If parents don't seek help for their child then teachers, neighbors, priests, preachers, grandparents.... should be able to seek help for the child. But they can't really do that if they don't have the knowledge they need to identify the signs.

This is just one of the problems I see. We as Americans have become more accepting of people with learning disabilities and differences. We are also more accepting of people with physical differences and challenges. Why can we not take that next step to accept that some medical issues deal with our minds? There are therapies and medicines to help people with many of these illnesses. And yet they are often not used due to fear of being treated differently by the public.

juliet4 02-14-2018 07:44 PM

The obvious solution of not letting GUNS get into the hands of the mentally ill! Yes, mental health counseling is paramount but strict enforcement of the gun laws and banning assault weapons. Yikes, without an assault weapon, multiple people do not die!! Take your heads out of the sand gun supporters.

teach2read10 02-14-2018 07:08 PM

I wish I could answer your question.

Peachyteacher 02-14-2018 07:06 PM

I am praying for everyone involved. Enough is enough.

anna 02-14-2018 06:27 PM

Begin with a gun buy back program to get some guns off the street. People need money these days and would be willing to sell their guns. Gun regulations need to tighten up and money needs to be invested in mental health clinics for schools everywhere. These clinics could be for students and their parents.

MrHistory12 02-14-2018 06:26 PM

I have a series of thoughts so bare with me. I'm a high school teacher so it's my lone point of perspective. I think every is reactionary. So many issues are caused by bullying and ultimately basically everything that is done is after the fact. I don't know how to proactively attack it but it's something I want to work on.

I think so much pressure is put on us to "fix" everything and it just can't be done. There are are also too many adversarial relationships and too many stories of parents not seeking the help their child obviously needs because they think nothing is wrong.

I think gun culture has absolutely been glorified. I think access to weapons is far too easy. I think we're far too accepting of "well bad people are going to find ways of hurting others regardless" well people will drive drunk but it doesn't mean we don't go out of our way to promote designated drivers, to promote Uber, public transit etc. I think we've let ourselves try nothing for way too long.

VivianCP 02-14-2018 06:15 PM

I wish I had an answer. It seems too easy to say let's all treat each other with kindness & compassion but if people would actually do it, it would be a game changer. I'm also feeling >>

Hifiman 02-14-2018 06:13 PM

I think of the behaviors and expectations I attribute to young people these days and go through a logical progression that makes them do these kinds of things, but it still makes no sense to me. I just can't comprehend it. I know there's too many people who will argue that the proliferation of guns is not the problem. Well, people, what we have now isn't working either.

Faith508 02-14-2018 06:07 PM

Gun control will not stop these shootings. I wish it would. Many cities and states have strict gun control and they still have massive problems with gun attacks and shootings. Criminals have ways to get illegal items.

A person, with evil intent, will always be able to get a gun, knife, box cutter, car, truck, bomb, hammer or their bare hands to commit a crime. Mass shootings are so horrific because the criminal can kill so many at one time.

My heart goes out to all the families and community involved with this horror.
I pray that people will reach out to each other and that we can help troubled children/people so they don't perpetrate harm against others.

I wish that schools, families and communtities had more resources (mental health and guidance) to help with the troubled children that we all have known.

kahluablast 02-14-2018 06:05 PM

I just don't know. What the heck needs to happen to stop this crap? I can't believe we have had 18 school shootings in 2018. What is going on? What can we do?

FLteachESE 02-14-2018 05:23 PM

Our issue in Florida as well, is the lack of funding for mental health support. We have MINIMAL! This week is National Guidance Counselor Week and 3/4 of my students had no idea what guidance counselors do or who they were- because they arent used anymore for what they are supposed to be used for. They are used for testing. TESTING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHILDREN.


I just got home so I just heard about the death toll. We have an emergency meeting tomorrow morning to discuss this. We had a practice lockdown last week. Our kids in my school are kids who dont have TV or even know about these situations. It is not their world view so when we practiced the lockdown they all thought it was fun and games. It was difficult.

Sprite 02-14-2018 05:15 PM

This is just hard to stomach at this point. This link shows all the shootings since 2013. Approx 300 per year.

https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/

CatLove 02-14-2018 04:36 PM

I’m with Smurfy Teach.

Plus I’m going to add that I think it’s now become the cool thing to do for those so inclined 😡.

Youthcantknow 02-14-2018 04:30 PM

I've heard reports that the gunman was a former student at the school and was the type that was troubled and had a lot of issues. We all know those kids. I know I have had quite a few over the years that I truly believed could do something like this. I know not all shooters are obvious, but we need to stop talking and take action! We need guidance counselors back in our schools - the kind that help troubled children and teach interpersonal skills. And we need gun control! The founding fathers could not have imagined the weapons we have today and they are NOT necessary for any ordinary citizen. I'm a member of Moms Demand Action, a network of people across the country that don't preach the banning of all guns (that would fall on deaf ears) but instead push for common sense solutions. I know they have an educators version in area, too, that I haven't yet reached out to. We should NOT still be hearing these stories on the news! How many lives do we need to lose? The number is already so high.

juliet4 02-14-2018 04:14 PM

We do NOT have the right to unlimited firearms wherever we travel. People who pass the scrutiny required can own a gun, not carry it everywhere. There is NO reason for any member of the public needs an AK 47 or other assault weapon for anything! This is the work of gun lobbyists who incite people to think their rights are being taken away. I do not live in a gun toting state and do not get it!

MeMimi 02-14-2018 04:11 PM

It makes me sick.

When I got home they reported two dead. Then I saw 15. As I was tying and clicking send to a friend that 15 died, the number changed to 17. I'm sure it will go up.

My thoughts go out to all that experienced it and to all those who were lost.

readerleader 02-14-2018 03:47 PM

I live in a neighboring county. It is sad and scary. It could happen to any of us, any day, any time.

spedder1 02-14-2018 03:34 PM

I'm watching the national news. At least 17 people are dead. I want to vomit.
Kathy

Smurfyteach 02-14-2018 03:17 PM

12000 homicides a year are happening in the USA because of homicide via guns alone. 30000 includes suicide. Kids are being scarred for life when they have to flee their school in a shooting event. I just read the stats I gave on the news. After Sandy Hook etc, what did the Govt do?? Made guns EASIER to collect and conceal in 12 states. So shootings for Americans are obviously normal and have desensitized everyone.
Until you make gun control a reality like we do and teach the young people that guns are not part of your language, abnormal and not ok, i will sit here and wait for the next mass school shooting.

mhugs 02-14-2018 03:16 PM

When will it end? My heart goes out to the families, students, staff, police, EMTs and the community.

MrHistory12 02-14-2018 03:12 PM

I have so much to say and no way to properly express it. It just breaks my heart. I'm so sorry to all of the families

MightyTeach 02-14-2018 03:00 PM

This is just terrible!

JanetL 02-14-2018 02:47 PM

Heartbreaking

jjwires 02-14-2018 02:04 PM

Sending prayers for all involved.

1956BD 02-14-2018 01:37 PM

Such a tragedy. Saying a prayer for all involved.

sbslab 02-14-2018 01:18 PM

Horrible, really horrible. My heart goes out to the parents, students & faculty.

MathWA 02-14-2018 01:05 PM

They now have a person of interest in custody. It has been reported that he has been identified as the shooter by eye witnesses. Horrific!

GHVFAN 02-14-2018 12:58 PM

That there are many deaths. Praying this isn’t correct.

mom23kids 02-14-2018 12:43 PM

Yes, And i just heard that they DO NOT have him. Please, I hope they find out who it is and get him OR if not, close the schools tom. I wouldn't send my kid i this guy is on the loose.

MAsped 02-14-2018 12:38 PM

My, my, my! This will never stop until they completely eliminate school facilities and start having everyone be homeschooled or stay at home and do some kind of distance learning schooling.

kathy 02-14-2018 12:15 PM

Another mass shooting at a Florida high school.




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