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dietcoke99's Message:

I think I acted professionally, certainly much more professional than the (incompetent?) people than were there. If they had treated me with common sense, I would still be there, but I'm just glad I'm gone (that is my opinion, of course, because I know there are those that disagree, that's o.k.)

What I'm wondering is, since I shouldn't have talked to an administrator (I asked for an administrator, not the principal, but the principal is who showed up).

Since nothing that happened/said should have been brought to the attention of an administrator, what SHOULD be brought to the attention of an administrator? Do they not want to know about any of these things - I think I would want to know that special ed is dropping the ball, if I were a competent administrator, but that's me.

If none of this, what DO you ever tell an administrator about? Anything? Seriously, I want to know.

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Discussion Review (newest messages first)
c6g 11-08-2018 03:20 PM

There isn't much I can add, but here's one of the most difficult things about being in this situation.

You want the student out of the classroom, and you know you should write a referral. If you're in a school that has someone who can come to escort the student to the office, that's ideal. Very often, that isn't the case. You could call the office and send the student, but very often they don't know exactly what he or she did. They often don't have time to hear all the particulars over the phone. You could send the referral with the student . . . good luck with that. You could try asking another student to bring it, but few students in upper grades want to be put in that position. I once disguised a referral and sent with another student, putting it into a sealed envelope labeled "attendance forms," but that really shouldn't be necessary.

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 05:58 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. I guess I have some reflection and thinking to do, based on the opinions of you guys, because both of you make sense.

It was just hard to let humiliation go for me. At least I know better, now, so it won't happen again and ruin my job at my current district. Maybe I could have made humor out of it, like I talked about in another post, somehow, with others that I know.

I think a small part of it may be that I used to be a teacher, and subbing is WAY different from teaching, far more different than I ever expected.

YayaSub 11-07-2018 05:36 PM

Offhand, I can recall speaking to a principal about a teacher who I "pushed in" with who threw a ridiculous amount of material at my resource kids and also expected me to walk in cold and teach them everything she was having the gen ed kids teach to themselves via technology. She was condescending to me and to them.This was only after mentioning the incident in a personal conversation with a secretary. She knew this teacher was being looked at, and she encouraged the P to reach out to me for my experience.

In your shoes with the strong feelings you had about it, I would have included it in my note to the teacher and dropped it. I'm not looking to make trouble for anyone, and if it wasn't a safety issue, I just would let the people responsible for running the school do their jobs.That is part of the role of substitute teaching: we are there to maintain the status quo while the teacher is out, not fix all the problems and change their procedures.

You will make yourself miserable in this job if you invest this much of yourself in every situation that is different than how you would have done it.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but it has to be exhausting to you and those around you.

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 04:42 PM

I think I acted professionally, certainly much more professional than the (incompetent?) people than were there. If they had treated me with common sense, I would still be there, but I'm just glad I'm gone (that is my opinion, of course, because I know there are those that disagree, that's o.k.)

What I'm wondering is, since I shouldn't have talked to an administrator (I asked for an administrator, not the principal, but the principal is who showed up).

Since nothing that happened/said should have been brought to the attention of an administrator, what SHOULD be brought to the attention of an administrator? Do they not want to know about any of these things - I think I would want to know that special ed is dropping the ball, if I were a competent administrator, but that's me.

If none of this, what DO you ever tell an administrator about? Anything? Seriously, I want to know.

mooba1 11-07-2018 02:54 PM

Ah, now from reading your follow-up posts, I understand more clearly, and I certainly do remember the dust-up over releasing some of the students when there was no list provided.

Hopefully, typing it all out and posting about it took a weight off your shoulders. I hope you’re able to put it out of your mind and continue to sub in the other district where the admin actually supports you.

Sure, you could’ve handled it more professionally, but in the heat of the moment, and with the history of non-support at that school, I can understand why you did the “take this job and shove it” move.

I’m glad I misunderstood, and that you aren’t leaving subbing, but instead putting a bad situation in your rear view mirror.

YayaSub 11-07-2018 02:06 PM

This is too much drama over one rude, jeky student. I don't understand why he was sent back to class, and I'm really confused about coming back with fast food.

However, that is how it was handled, so I would have just eagerly awaited the end of that class period and gone on with the rest of my day. You let his behavior ruin your whole day, maybe week, considering how much you are dwelling on it and rehashing it. I think you overstepped when you went to the principal. You way overstepped when you tried to involve the superintendent.

And why leave them in the lurch by walking out in the middle of the day? Professionalism requires us to sometimes suck it up in a bad situation. After that day is done, you are free to never take a job there again. I guess if you never care to work for that district again maybe you don't care. But this was just not handled professionally.

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 11:15 AM

(I love your name!). It is very calming.

This is high school, biology, so mostly 10th grade.

You're right - another email would not change anybody's mind for the *better,* just the worst - like thinking I'm a nutball.

Mom probably just thought (and was told by him) that it was lunch. I don't really blame her. If she knew what was going on, she probably WOULD have taken him home. She didn't know. Their special ed department sounds like it is so inept that the mother is not given what she needs, either, to help him succeed.

The campus supervisor DID KNOW, though, as I passed him on the way to the office and he told me that he knew.

I didn't care (or expect) to be given the information about what is wrong with him. I do expect to be notified that I needed to approach him differently, or whatever, so the class runs smoothly and the others, if not him, can focus on the assignment at hand.

There could have been an aid, if necessary (to at least check on him - I've seen this in other schools). This school is so messed up that it shouldn't surprise me and I'm glad I'm out. The 3 principals got out, and I'm glad I am, too!

If he does so poorly in a regular class (maybe an IEP?), maybe he should be in a sp. ed. class, or somewhere else where other students, who want to do their work, can.

I have been told that a student has an IEP in other schools that run smoothly. If I am supposed to be totally thought of as the sub, in her absence, then I should know (i.e. being certificated because the teacher is, and we are totally in place of the teacher - which is what I have been told, in this very district. The only reason that I even mention it is that there was a "silent pause" afterwards, and also the WAY she said it:

"HE HAS PERSONAL PROBLEMS THAT *YOU* DON'T KNOW ABOUT!" What am I supposed to do with that, by itself - is that supposed to help the situation with just those words and nothing else? I think she was incompetent, at lease in this situation, and should have apologized to me. I said in my email that I wrote to them that I would return if I got an apology from her, but of course that didn't happen. What does she have to apologize for? <cough, cough>

I think it is obvious that this didn't go well, and it wasn't my fault (the other students in the class would agree). It was the fault of several, if not many, other people who dropped the ball, or I hate to say it, don't care?

I'm glad I'm out, like you said. The other school has no problems like the ones I've experienced here.

I actually feel sorry for him that he isn't being given the *effective* help that he needs to succeed, but the other students need to be given the opportunity to succeed, as well.

Something needs to be done.

This wasn't just "getting away with stuff," this was ridiculousness.

Thank you for the response. I greatly appreciate it. I do think, now that I think about it, and from what you said, that she probably wanted to tell me what was going on, and couldn't (hence the pregnant pause). But still, she should have handled it better, should have been prepared for those sorts of things, so that there would have been a better ending. That is exactly the part where it all went downhill - I was explaining - she was dodging.

He needs attention from them and I hope that he gets it - he certainly isn't getting *effective* help from that school.

At my old school we had people MOVE IN to our district because of our special ed department - so I am used to these students truly excelling, not treated poorly like this, though I'm sure he feels like he is being treated well.

whatever 11-07-2018 10:19 AM

now that you have already quit. What grade was this?

You said your piece and made your point. Another email will not change anyone's mind for the better, and as you said, may point out a lot of issues you've had they didn't already know.

I do think it was ridiculous to allow him to bring the food back to class with him. I wonder if Mom knew he was in trouble and already in the office. Either way, that was inappropriate.

When the P said "We have had problems with him" she could have been expressing either that she was unsure of what to do with him either or that she had a reason to let him off lightly. It does not surprise me at all that she did not share what he "is going through." That is probably confidential and a day to day sub would not be privy to the specifics. She could have taken an extra sentence or two and said that though.

Even if she was in a place of trying to build a relationship with him to more effectively deal with him and his issues in the future, she could have explain that briefly as well.

I have found though that, more and more, ALL of the kids are going through something... And some poor kids are ALWAYS going through one thing or another (and probably always will.) We so can definitely keep it in mind but it should not be a free ticket to get away with stuff.

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 10:18 AM

OMG I found the post I was talking about! It was under the thread about feedback. Apparently I did post it, but I just said that I "had an idea [about feedback], but I was too tired to write it and I would write it tomorrow - maybe not word for word.

I wrote it MUCH later than I thought. I thought it was around 11:00pm, but it was actually at 12:43am this morning.

That means that I took the Ambien at about 10:15pm last night and the ton of bricks hit me was 2 1/2 hours later. I must have watched tv before getting on here.

Just be cognizant about medications because the side effects may be really powerful and may affect your job for that day. I would have had to call in sick today, FOR SURE!

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 10:02 AM

OMG, believe it or not, I can't believe it's even *possible,* but THERE IS MORE DRAMA that is somewhat related to the foregoing.

I went to bed last night about 9:20pm (yes, this is going somewhere) and this fiasco incident (described earlier) was going round and round in my head, so I got up probably about an hour later (10:15?) and took an "Ambien" (I RARELY do this).

I think I went straight to this board. I started responding to something on this board and during writing my response, all of a sudden it felt like a TON OF BRICKS hit me.

I wrote, "I'll have to finish this tomorrow" ON MY POST, and closed my computer. I felt really "whoosy" and managed to get to bed. I certainly didn't think of school, anymore, so I guess that is the good part, if there is one.

I have been wanting to get on here so I could see what time it was that this happened, but, unfortunately, I didn't officially "post it." That's how bad it was. I didn't click "post." I think it may have been around 11:00, but I"m not sure.

I woke up at 4:00 am (I usually do and then get up again at 6:00). I felt like total crap and worse than that, I was still somewhat "whoosy." I thanked God (not really, but you get my drift, I'm certainly not a God-person) that I had switched subs with today (I was supposed to work today until the fiasco and I was replaced, if you're following this). I guess there is a "silver lining" in this.

I could have dealt with feeling really "crappy" at school, somehow - school would have probably distracted me, but I would have NEVER DRIVEN because I still felt a little whoosy.

I would have had to call in (can you imagine? the sub needs a sub! The sub is sicker than the person she is subbing for!).

I'm starting to remember what that post was about, and I had put a lot of time into it <nooooooo!>

The moral of the story is to try to not take medications that you don't take on a daily basis, especially if it is before a school day, because it could do something that had never happened before - I have taken the Ambien before, though not often, and have NEVER had anything even CLOSE to this happen before. It could end up affecting the job you took. There is no way that I could have gone to that job.

By the way, if you remember, I had to cancel my job for today (Wed) because I was "replaced" (my idea). I'm 99.999% sure that AESOP won't call you if you cancel, because I *always* get at least a couple of calls a day, and I haven't gotten a single call since yesterday, and nothing for today, at all, since this incident (hopefully that makes sense - you get my drift) Canceling DOES have an effect. I can definitely tell the difference. I'm CERTAIN that this doesn't happen with "reject," though - that is VERY different.

OK. Hope I haven't bothered you guys with more drama, but there are school-related parts in there.

dietcoke99 11-07-2018 12:36 AM

(1st incident) I hadn't thought about this *at all,* until Sublime just mentioned it - I just thought that it was so ridiculous in itself that it lent itself to me quitting the *same day.* Maybe that makes me look like a psycho if I DON'T give them any context for the following incidents that happened awhile back.

(2nd incident) I just thought about it on my own, but, now that you mention it, I did have another incident in that we were in the last period of the day. I hadn't been told about this until a student said that they had to leave for sports (cheerleading, football, whatever). They left.

The campus supervisor came to my room and told me that two of the students that left were NOT in sports, but left with them, anyway. He said that the counselors saw them wondering around the campus and called him. I'm not sure if my name was directly mentioned in this incident (to the counselors), but I could have for "letting my students wonder around the school."

He said that if there were a lockdown, I wouldn't know where they were when the parents came to pick them up. How was I supposed to know that they weren't in sports? He said that if I wasn't sure I should have called the office (as they were excited, it was right at the time they were leaving, and I was supposed to hold them back - yea, right.

I was really mad because I had been lectured about lockdowns, etc., and another teacher came in to take a student out and I was still mad, and he knew it. I don't know who he was, but he probably thinks I'm a loon, too.

When at my other district I told them about this and they said that they weren't supposed to pull students out of class for sports - that it was against CIF rules?

Should I email the principal, HR, superintendent, my colleague that I get along so well with, and possibly the campus supervisor (though I didn't email him the previous emails, yet, but I could send them all together)? I could look like a crazy person to send ANOTHER email, especially since I no longer work there? The campus supervisor is involved a little bit because he knew that the mother had brought the food, and knew that he took it to the class. I was irritated and told him that he should have stayed in the office the rest of the period, or he should have gone home when the mother brought him the food, so he was involved, too. There was another guy with him, but I don't know who he was. I am embarrassed over the situation because there had been various other people around that had heard parts of it going on. I don't feel like the other teachers like me.

(3rd incident) I also had an incident that "I'm not sure how bad it was," but I had been pretty lax about letting students out of study hall to go other places (much too lax). They would ask and I would pretty much just write them a pass. The campus supervisor was telling me how "SOME teachers are JUST WRITING PASSES AND LETTING THEM TO ANYWHERE!" I told him that it was me, I apologized, and said that I had been to lax with them. I was humble about it, but I don't know how well they took it. I'm sure he had to have discussions with others to figure it out, so they were talking about me, which rubs me the wrong way, as well.

I also didn't mention this earlier, but in my emails I said that I would come back if I got an apology from the principal (I won't hold my breath).

I FEEL(?) that, in general, the people at this school don't like me, except for my one colleague. I don't get good vibes, like I do at the other school.

I keep thinking that I can win them over each time I work there, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

These things may have added to my desire to quit that school - I don't feel that I fit - I don't feel that people there like me - they don't act like it, like they do at the other school.

I kindof think that I have caused too many problems to fix, knew I couldn't do anything about it, and wanted to GET OUT, and the incident yesterday gave me a way to do it! Stranger things have happened and it makes sense because I feel relieved to be out of there. I don't feel wanted.

The question is, what do I do at this point, if anything, and not look like a crazy woman?

I also don't want to draw attention to myself by telling everybody about these problems that they may not have known about? They may be really glad that they got rid of me if they knew all of this. Most people, though, if you take their inventory, have just as much, or more.

I don't really know what to do b/c I've already sent out a lot of emails.

Sublime 11-06-2018 08:07 PM

It is unacceptable to send that kid back to the classroom with a bag of food! I don't understand that in the slightest.

It seems you must have had other bad experiences there to quit the same day. Maybe this was the tipping point?

Be assured people read your post. I don't always respond to posts but I empathize deeply with those who write them. We know how you feel!

dietcoke99 11-06-2018 05:35 PM

I think (and assumed) that he would be in the office for the rest of the period (they didn't even call me, his behavior didn't change, nothing). Either this, or when his mother brought the McDonald's, she should have taken him home with her.

I have to say that the other students were excellent, and even seemed to be on my side, judging by their behavior and what they said on the way out. Another reason why I like that school - two students, on their own, escorted me to my room at the beginning of that day <awww>.

I sub in another district and everything is going great there. I had to send 2 students to the office a week or so ago and it was handled very well - couldn't have asked more more (competence!). A teacher who is going to quit next year told me that I should apply for his job!

**There IS something more in that I work more at the school I am in, now, so maybe I didn't have as much to lose as others might have had.

Thanks for the responses. I didn't think anybody would read it, much less respond.

dietcoke99 11-06-2018 05:11 PM

I think I might not have been clear. I was trying to make it as short as possible and that may have backfired.

I sent the student to the office and then he returned with his McDonald's.

That's when I gave up and didn't even try to do anything with him, anymore (why would I when both the student and I - and the rest of the class - knew that he would win, and I felt humiliated?).

That's when I told the class that "I can't win," but I said it calmly. I just ignored him and turned my attention to the rest of the class (they were working and I was going around showing them my scorpion sucker that I bought that morning for them - it's nice to think of something humerus because I don't feel very humerus right now).

The class ended and the students left, including THIS student. I never saw the student in question again.

That is when I WALKED TO THE OFFICE - the next class was my prep - to talk to an admin (she didn't come to my class, I went to the office). I debated as to do this or just put my tail between my legs and leave it alone, but it was so ridiculous.

I was so expecting her to say something like, "That is unacceptable. I will talk to those involved. Thank you for letting me know." That is TRULY what I was expecting, and when I got the opposite, it caught me off-guard.

When I first saw her, I told her, "I had a very disruptive student, also mocking me, and I sent him to the office. 20 minutes later he was back with McDonald's, strutting around the front of the class" Nobody was saying anything and it was kindof awkward (I had never seen this woman before), so I added, "he said that you guys said that the reason I sent him to the office was stupid," (he really did say that). She said, "You took the word of a student?," and I said, "Everything I just said, and you only noticed the last sentence?" Nobody was saying anything at that point so I just started to leave (THE OFFICE). That is when she said, "we have had problems with him," and I made the, probably stupid, comment of "I wonder why?," and I just left.

I didn't write a referral, I just called the office and told them that I had a disruptive student, mocking me, and I tried to send him to the office and he wouldn't go. I told him that if he didn't go I would have someone come get him. I asked him his name and he said, "no," then he said, unconvincingly, "Chris." The woman on the phone asked me his name and I said, "he said his name is Chris, but I don't believe him." (It turns out his name was Alex).

I didn't spell out everything he did to the principal, but as all of this had been going on I had been writing it down on the note for the teacher (and yes, it was a very long note). I have no idea if she gave it to the principal, but I highly doubt it.

I thought I pretty much covered it by saying "disruptive," and especially that he was mocking me. I did say that when he came in with the McDonald's that he was walking around the front of the class real slowly, drinking his shake.

I'm sure that a lot of it is because this principal doesn't care about subs.

Very sad situation.

mooba1 11-06-2018 04:32 PM

Clearly you weren’t going to get any support from the P, and I had to chuckle when I read that the P said, “We have had problems with him”. Gee, ya think??? He should never have been allowed to bring his lunch down to the classroom! It boggles the mind. What a marvelous message that send to the other kids. The P had best get herself ready, because she’s punched her karma bus ticket.

I can understand not wanting to return to the school where this incident happened, but was there something more that caused you to resign from subbing? In any case, I’m sorry it didn’t work out, and I wish you the best for whatever new adventure you undertake.

LostINRoom 11-06-2018 03:56 PM

"She excused him because "HE HAS PERSONAL PROBLEMS THAT *YOU* DON'T KNOW ABOUT," but she wouldn't tell me what they were. I started to walk out and she said, "We have had problems with him." I said (and I know this wasn't smart), "I wonder why?," and I walked out. I was actually very calm during this whole incident - I didn't raise my voice or anything like that. I knew people would listen to me more if I remained calm."

So this is the point when you still had some control over the situation. I know how unsupported you must feel but your walking out means that they won. Why did you have to be the one to walk out? Why didn't you convince the principal that the student should not be in the room? You could've at least said to the principal that you need a moment to calm down and left the principal with the class. Was there a referral and on that referral, were you able to itemize the disruption and the lack of respect? Your emotions must've been running high. This is enough to get my blood pressure going.

dietcoke99 11-06-2018 03:41 PM

I've been debating as to whether to place this on the site because there is nothing anybody can do. It happened yesterday. I swear on my life that this is 100% true.

I will make it as short as possible. If I don't it will crash the website due to length.

I had a disruptive student who, among other things, was mocking me. I sent him to the office. About 20 minutes later he came strutting into the classroom, arrogant as can be, DRINKING A SHAKE AND HOLDING A McDONALD'S BAG! He was drinking the shake slowly, walking real slow and arrogant around the front of the room. I told the students that "I can't win." He started giving fries to a few students that were sitting next to him, as well as eating them himself, of course.

I found out later that his mother brought the McDonald's to him while he was in the office.

I went to the office to talk to an admin about it, after pondering whether I should or not, and still in ambiguity went ahead and did it. Upon speaking to the principal about it, I tried to explain it to her, which fell upon deaf ears.

She excused him because "HE HAS PERSONAL PROBLEMS THAT *YOU* DON'T KNOW ABOUT," but she wouldn't tell me what they were. I started to walk out and she said, "We have had problems with him." I said (and I know this wasn't smart), "I wonder why?," and I walked out. I was actually very calm during this whole incident - I didn't raise my voice or anything like that. I knew people would listen to me more if I remained calm.

One of the main things is that, if I am doing so poorly with him, why did you send him back to me?

I went into the room of a teacher that I know and told her what was going on. She said, "Are you going to finish the day?" I said "yes." She said "You're supposed to sub for me on Wed."

I said, "Let me go and see if she wants me to do that." The principal said that she didn't think that was a good idea.

I told my colleague and stopped to ponder what I should do. I thought, "I am being replaced on Wed,. so I probably won't be coming back." I was on prep and had one more period to do after that (we're on block).

I decided to leave.

I went back to my room, straightened up a very little bit, took my stuff, went to the secretary and told her that she would need to get somebody else for period 8. As I was laying my sub stuff down for the secretary, I said (again, under control), also to my colleague who had come to the office, "She wouldn't talk to me, she wouldn't listen to me." I looked over and the principal was standing there listening to me.

I said, on the way to the door, "I'll miss you guys," then, "This used to be my favorite school, believe it or not," and I walked out the door to my car.

When I got home I emailed HR and quit. This was yesterday.

I also sent a synopsis to HR and the superintendent. That district has 3 new principals this year, now I know why.

I will really miss my colleague that I used to sub for a lot. I already have a heavy heart about that.

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