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harpazo1965's Message:

You have a math degree but are not state certified. Please explain. You have a math degree but work as a sub. Explain.

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Discussion Review (newest messages first)
Shadygap 09-06-2019 04:46 PM

What states allow substitute teachers only to have high school diplomas??

BadKitty 09-01-2019 09:39 AM

Our state requires you to apply for a substitute teaching license which is pretty much just a fee and a transcript pricing you have a Bachelor's degree.
The hiring district then requires you to pass a background check, drug tests, physical, TB test, etc.
As long as you have these, you can sub.
And each district has their own say in whether or not you need to be a credentialed teacher to be a long term sub.
My district does not, so any sub can long term. We have a huge shortage of teachers AND subs, so many subs will fill year long vacancies.
The state recently added short term subs, which only require an associate's degree, but you can only fill daily subbing positions.

subasaurus 08-28-2019 09:42 PM

California has some strict credential rules it appears.

luv2teach2017 08-27-2019 07:43 AM

I copied this from a local school district's website. Not all districts require the "online substitute teacher training," but otherwise, the requirements are standard for California.

* Hold a teaching credential based on a degree and student teaching OR

* Be eligible to apply for an Emergency 30-Day Substitute Teaching Permit which has the minimum requirements of:
- Must possess a bachelor’s degree or higher; and
- Passed the California Basic Educational Skills Test (CBEST) or CSET Multiple Subject with Writing

In addition, you must:
*Successfully complete a screening interview with the Human Resources Office;

* Show teaching competency by:
- Completion of a teaching credential program based on a degree and student teaching OR
- Completion of the online Substitute Teacher Training Program with a passing SubAssessment composite score of 85% or better. Bring a copy of the SubAssessment Diploma with a passing composite grade of 85% or higher to your Screening Interview

* Pass a Criminal Background Check

Subtastic 08-21-2019 04:18 PM

Having state certification just means you took a couple of extra education. courses. Having a degree in my subject area - English - is sufficient for me, and it's not like the classroom material is super challenging anyway. I think I'm quite well-read and doing tutoring on the side keeps my teaching skills sharp.

harpazo1965 08-19-2019 04:54 PM

I want to add that while it is true that subbing allows employees to pick when to accept assignments or not, it is also true that rejecting TOO MANY assignments will, in certain school districts, place sub teachers on the DO NOT CALL LIST, a list generated by main office staff responsible for calling subs in the morning and approved by the Principal and A. P.

Sublime 08-19-2019 08:21 AM

Subasaurus: Although that link is from 2000, it's surprising and humbling. It seems most states don't require a college degree, which is not the "be all end all" and I understand being logical and flexible is of most use to a substitute. However, I thought the requirements might be stricter. Wow.

MaineSub 08-19-2019 06:35 AM

Quote:
Then how do you account for so many middle school and high school teachers sexually abusing and in many cases sleeping with students? I call that breaking through the cracks, through the system.
I'm not sure who this is addressed to... but it helps make my point. Background checks and fingerprinting are not a guarantee of competence and qualification any more than certification guarantees good teaching skills. Background checks and fingerprinting only assure us that the candidate hasn't been caught doing it in the past. (I'll repeat that I support doing them but let's be realistic about what they accomplish.) Most licensing tests I'm familiar with only assure us that the candidate can pass the test. (If you doubt that, watch how many people drive.)

We need some multi-dimensional thinking to address these problems and challenges. Better compensation may well contribute to more candidates but it is not a guarantee of competence. It could, in fact, be argued that it would have the reverse impact. When people start applying for jobs based solely on pay they may well be less committed to the job. A reality of subbing is that it is not a great way to make a living--but how many jobs are there when you can simply decide you don't feel like going to work?

One reason additional reason I don't support testing is that it is impossible to be an SME (subject matter expert) for every subject a substitute may end up teaching. I have that problem myself and I understand that sometimes I'm called out of sheer desperation to have a responsible adult in a classroom for the day. That's another reality of subbing.

The universally admitted current standard for subs is "If no one gets hurt and nothing gets broken, you've had a good day." Personally, I think subs have as almost as much responsibility for changing that standard as do districts and administration.
harpazo1965 08-18-2019 06:26 PM

Money is the great motivator in most cases. I greatly dislike the fact that sub teachers are in great demand across the USA but when it comes to raising rate per hour or granting the summer off with pay for subs this idea is quickly abandoned. Did I say SUMMER OFF WITH PAY? Yes, this is one of the best treasures of teaching in NYC.

harpazo1965 08-18-2019 06:21 PM

Thank you for the link provided.

harpazo1965 08-18-2019 06:20 PM

Your reply here is well-said and informative.

harpazo1965 08-18-2019 06:15 PM

Perhaps not a state test but what about a school district entry test for subs to determine the best qualified person to cover for the absent certified teacher?

harpazo1965 08-18-2019 06:11 PM

Then how do you account for so many middle school and high school teachers sexually abusing and in many cases sleeping with students? I call that breaking through the cracks, through the system.

luv2teach2017 08-18-2019 11:50 AM

Quote:
The more important question is "How do we recruit and maintain good substitute teachers?"
Yep, I agree.

I also know the solution is not to lower eligibility standards for substitute teachers. It's to set a reasonable standard for qualifications and pay a reasonable wage and provide decent benefits accordingly. The current practice of low wages and no benefits results in high turnover and oftentimes underqualified staff. You get what you pay for. No mystery there.
subasaurus 08-18-2019 06:27 AM

This article explains in full detail the credential requirements of subs within each individual state. It also mentions pay rates and demand for subs.


http://www.nea.org/home/14813.htm

MaineSub 08-18-2019 05:35 AM

While I fully support the idea of raising the bar for subs, I do not support "state certification." One of my biases behind that is that most state requirements prove only how incapable the government is of achieving much. Licensure and certification is not evidence of competence.

I've worked with some pretty bad subs over the years. Most don't last long--the system seems to weed them out, at least in those districts where teachers and admin pay attention to what subs are doing in classrooms. Transferring the responsibility for that to a state agency granting certification is not an acceptable alternative.

Most teachers I know do their best to leave good sub plans and do not expect a sub to teach new concepts. That is as it should be... although as one who loves to teach, I find it frustrating when I have to do busywork with a class. (Although I would also argue that even busy work can become a learning experience with a good sub/leader.)

I've also worked with some good subs over the years. Not all are former teachers nor are they certified or college degreed. Many have a passion for nurturing and teaching and a strong desire to be good at what they do. Requiring certification will not increase the pool of those good subs. The more important question is "How do we recruit and maintain good substitute teachers?"

I fully support background checks and fingerprinting. But I also know that they are not a guarantee there won't be some problems.

Lastly, I would offer an anecdote. I was in a classroom with a certified master degreed teacher subbing as an ed-tech. I knew her well; she's a good teacher, especially in math. She found herself totally confused during one lesson. She said, "Let's move on while Mr. B sees if he can figure this out." It is not to my credit that I did--it made sense since I was not on the firing line and could really focus on the problem. She allowed me to explain the solution to her and the class when I found it. (That teacher, by the way, has taught me a few teaching and classroom management tricks. Prior to her retirement, we worked extremely well together. It didn't seem to trouble her that I'm not certified. I do have a BA but it is not in math nor is it in education.)

Lakeside 08-18-2019 04:24 AM

Quote:
Well, I know in California, all teachers, paras, subs, and anyone who worksaround children must undergo a fingerprint clearance. In our district, all parent volunteers and field trip chaperones need to be fingerprinted, too.
We have both CORI and fingerprint requirements for subs here in MA as well. (I don't think the parent volunteers have to do fingerprints, but they do have to do CORIs.)

Quote:
I have spoken to many sub teachers. It is sad to say that most of the subs I spoke could not solve a simple fraction problem, write a complete sentence or find the main idea in a reading passage. I am talking about sub teachers that graduated from college, CUNY schools in particular.
Sorry you've run into subs who weren't qualified. I really haven't seen much of that here - but we get a lot of young teachers looking for permanent jobs, so maybe we're spoiled.

The question remains, though - how would we fund this test? If the potential subs have to shell out money to get started, many of them won't apply, and I doubt the school districts have the money to pay for it either.
Gogogo 08-17-2019 08:49 PM

You think “a lot” of college-educated criminals work as full time teachers and as paras? I think You may be a bit paranoid.

Well, I know in California, all teachers, paras, subs, and anyone who worksaround children must undergo a fingerprint clearance. In our district, all parent volunteers and field trip chaperones need to be fingerprinted, too.

harpazo1965 08-17-2019 07:13 PM

Subs should be fingerprinted and
have a complete background check. A lot of criminals with a college education break through the cracks and get hired as full-time teachers and long-term paras and subs.

harpazo1965 08-17-2019 07:06 PM

No certification for day to day subs. I agree but I also think there should be at least one state sub teacher test. The test should cover basic reading, writing and math.

I have spoken to many sub teachers. It is sad to say that most of the subs I spoke could not solve a simple fraction problem, write a complete sentence or find the main idea in a reading passage. I am talking about sub teachers that graduated from college, CUNY schools in particular.

GoodEnough85 08-17-2019 05:40 PM

AS SUBS... Missouri has a substitute teacher certificate that must be on file with the school. It doesn't claim the sub is a certified teacher, only a certified sub.

The person has to apply through the state, submit fingerprints and get a background check.

The person also needs at least 60 credit hours of college--it does not need to be in education or amount to an Associate's Degree.

I like it because of the fingerprinting and background check. A person with another degree, for example, (without an education cert.) could have a criminal background we are not aware of. If parents or volunteers need a background check to be on campus or around students, why wouldn't we hold subs to at least that?

I think there is a clause that says persons with a current, active teaching certification do not need to have a sub cert to sub. (Not positive on that part.)

harpazo1965 08-17-2019 05:23 PM

Thank you for your reply. Want to know a little more about me? Ok.

-Former sailor of the U.S. NAVY
-Former NYC sub teacher (8 years)
-I provide FREE math tutoring online and have been doing so for more than 20 years. Although I did provide private math tutoring in high-poverty areas where most parents had a hard time paying for service. My price at the time was $20/hour.
-Currently working overnight hours at a museum.
-I have been working for a long time.

subasaurus 08-17-2019 04:42 PM

Day to day subs shouldn't have to be certified. Only those who sub long term.


There's already a huge sub shortage as it is. Required certification would make the job even more unpopular.



For day to day subbing, only a high school diploma is required for many schools across the United States.

Lakeside 08-17-2019 03:16 AM

Quote:
You have a math degree but are not state certified. Please explain. You have a math degree but work as a sub. Explain.
What is there that I didn't already explain? I studied math because I liked it. I worked for years in mutual fund banking - used the math a lot. Then I left work to raise my child. (I know I was very fortunate to be able to do that!) I started subbing when I wanted a part-time job that was on the same schedule (no day care expense) and would keep my brain active.

When you said "certified" I read that as an actual teaching degree - a Masters in Education, which is what my full-time colleagues have. I did not want to put in the time or money to get that because I only wanted to work part time.

I love subbing because:
I can work with different age groups and never get bored.
I can take any day(s) off I need or want.
Work (planning/correcting) does't follow me home and cut into family time.
I don't have to deal with parents, or high-pressure state testing data.
If a particular class is too much, I don't have to go back!

Quote:
By state certification I mean taking exams to show competency and basic knowledge of reading, writing and math not so much teaching credentials.
I wouldn't have minded that at all (unless the cost was prohibitive) but how does a B.S. degree not already show that?

Quote:
Of course, those required to be state certified should be paid accordingly.
I would love it if good subs could make more, but again, I don't think most districts can afford it.

Please...tell us a little bit about yourself too!
broomrider 08-16-2019 09:06 PM

subs need 60 units of college credit in anything, a clean record (fingerprint check), etc. and $180 for a teaching license. That's the same price as a regular teaching license although the pay difference is considerable.

harpazo1965 08-16-2019 06:26 PM

By state certification I mean taking exams to show competency and basic knowledge of reading, writing and math not so much teaching credentials. Credentials of teaching cannot be learned by simply passing state exams.

harpazo1965 08-16-2019 06:22 PM

Of course, those required to be state certified should be paid accordingly.

harpazo1965 08-16-2019 06:20 PM

I just think that sub teachers should show competitiveness in terms of basic reading, writing and math. A SUB TEACHER STATE EXAM is a good idea to weed out incompetence.

harpazo1965 08-16-2019 06:17 PM

I agree. If long-term subbing is needed to cover a class, why not hire a certified teacher?

harpazo1965 08-16-2019 06:14 PM

You have a math degree but are not state certified. Please explain. You have a math degree but work as a sub. Explain.

Sublime 08-16-2019 05:51 PM

I think I'm confused over what certified means. Yes, in CA we have to have that sub. teacher permit, which is nothing more than paying a fee. I mistook the original post to mean being certified as a teacher, and thus possessing a teaching credential.

luv2teach2017 08-16-2019 12:37 PM

Quote:
In CA you need a bachelors degree and you have to take a general math and language test to substitute.
I'll add that in CA you also must be state certificated., i.e. have either a CA teaching credential or a CA substitute teacher permit that you must renew each year.

I do think that classroom substitute teachers should have a Bachelor's degree and pass a proficiency test as well as.be state certified. But they also should be paid accordingly.
Sublime 08-16-2019 08:40 AM

I earned a teaching credential but never taught because I had 2 kids during the 6 years it took me to get it! The courses taught me very little about working in a classroom so I don't think it's necessary to be certified as a teacher to be a sub. In CA you need a bachelors degree and you have to take a general math and language test to substitute. I took the test over 20 years ago and I'm sure it's changed by now. Hundreds of people sub in large districts. How can they all be required to be certified? I would think most of them would be looking for a teaching job.

ElemEd 08-16-2019 07:21 AM

For day-to-day subs here, no teaching certificate is necessary. For long-term (over 2 weeks) subs, certification is required. I think that strikes a good balance. The classroom teacher writes the plans and provides the materials for the short-term subs, so a reasonable, intelligent person can do it. For long term spots, it is necessary to do the planning, attend faculty meetings, have parent conferences, prepare report cards, etc. It is a so much more necessary for a credentialed teacher to take these assignments.

Lakeside 08-16-2019 07:06 AM

Quote:
...A B.A. or B.S. is the only requirement for subbing in NYC. What do you say?
It works for me! I sub (same rule in MA) with a B.S. in Mathematics. I've always enjoyed working with children, and did take some education electives in college, but I'm not a certified teacher.

I subbed a little right after college (working for a temp agency at the same time) but then working in banking for several years. I left to be a stay-at-home-mom for several more years, and then got into subbing for the flexibility when my son was in elementary school.

It's been the perfect job for me, and judging by my reputation in the schools I work for, I do think I'm good at it. I'm not one of those subs who sees it as babysitting. - I do a lot of reading to keep up with things and make myself a better teacher, and I've had a lot of education-related experience on a smaller scale (volunteer work with children, teaching CCD, etc.)

If every sub had to be a certified teacher, I think we'd run into one of two problems. - Either there wouldn't be enough subs available, because we'd lose the ones who pick it up very part-time, or school budgets would suffer because we'd have to pay certified subs more due to the investment on their part.
harpazo1965 08-16-2019 12:35 AM

Do you agree that sub teachers should be state certified before employment? In NYC, sub teachers do not need to be certified. A B.A. or B.S. is the only requirement for subbing in NYC. What do you say?




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