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Keltikmom's Message:

I am livid on your behalf.

I would pull a few of your "ace" students aside and ask them what went on. If the majority of the story is the same, I would go to admin.

And, I wouldn't take them back either. If she asks (which I doubt) tell her the truth. She acted unprofessionally.

Or take them, but stay the whole time.

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Discussion Review (newest messages first)
Tawaki 04-13-2018 12:29 PM

A little late to the party...

The only thing I would worry about is MaMa Bear coming for scorched Earth, and you getting caught up in the cross hairs. Document what went down (facts only), and fire up to Administration. They may do nothing, (fine) but at least they know.

I'm torn about giving this Sweetie a break, because after all, she's making some serious jack with 20 years in (if union). Why should she skate when everyone else has to deal? Stuff the kids full of Cinnabons and Mountain Dew before her class. Give her a real send off. (I'M KIDDING)

She's a mess, and will leave being a hot mess. If Sweetie is one neuron snap away from climbing a cell tower like Kong, maybe keep a few "troublesome" ones behind for whatever reason you can dream up. This is utter BS because it's her job to get a gripe and act like an adult.

I wouldn't sit in her class. I wouldn't not bring the class. I might come a few minutes earlier to make sure her room isn't a dumpster fire with her derailing.

Specials are a totally different deal than your own classroom. I taught art classes where the kids got nothing but newsprint and golf pencils for three weeks straight. They had no sense, and need more time to "grow up". Why would I argue with a kid who still believes in Santa and the Easter Bunny? Why make it personal?

Also, they are closer to subbing than a classroom teacher. Kids aren't stupid. They are stuck with Ms Bee for 6 hours a day. They saw me 90 minutes a week. Yeah, it's going to be push bottom city. I had classes where 6 kids could have qualified for an IEP. One parent didn't tell the classroom teacher their adopted kid had FASD/RAD, until he set my trash can on fire. #GoodTimes. Anyway, this teacher wasn't out of the loop on the class, wasn't a brand spanking new teacher, and the classroom teacher tried to help.

Good luck in whatever you decide. Had it been me on the receiving end of that screed, the near fatal eye roll would have given me brain damage.

Tori58 04-13-2018 08:59 AM

I agree that insults are right out and it sounds as though this teacher needs to be done teaching or get help with whatever it is that's causing her to be unable to control herself.

And yes, it sounds as though you've done everything possible to try to help her. I guess, since it's so close to the end of the year an the end of her time there, and since you don't mind giving up your prep time, I'd just ask her if she really needs to see them for those last couple of classes or whether it's okay if you keep them. You don't need to tell her it's because of her outburst, which might have the unintended consequence of causing her to unload on another class of kids. Or, alternatively, you could send the more resilient kids and just keep this one emotionally fragile student. Since he's been absent, you could just say he needs to make up some work for you.

I don't know that I'd bother going to administration, at this point. If she's been on an improvement plan and is resigning after 20+ years in the district, it seems fairly likely that she won't get a positive recommendation and that she may be planning to get out of education. If you're going to worry about it, confront her and just tell her that, in your opinion, she needs to either resolve her anger issues or get out of teaching. At least she'll know not to write you down as a reference.

signedout 04-13-2018 08:27 AM

I know she's on an improvement plan because she told me. I've been at this school for 3 years, and as soon as I got here she sort of designated me as her listening ear. We have had many discussions about students, classroom management, etc. She's been at this school for a lot longer than I have (20+ years), and knows most of the students. We have had conversations about this particular boy, as well as his older siblings (which I also taught). She is well aware of his home situation and difficulties.
I have sat down with her and helped with seating assignments in her classroom, classroom management strategies, and shared extensively what has worked for specific students so she can try in her classroom.
I don't care about my prep time. I value arts education, and consider specials just as important as core curriculum.

That being said, NO child deserves to be treated like that by an adult. You simply do no insult children and tell them they are horrible human beings and don't deserve to be allowed in school. I don't care how horribly behaved a student is. You just DON'T.

midwestread 04-13-2018 08:07 AM

First I would say "Not ok" to the teacher privately, we need to put on big girl pants and have the uncomfortable discussion, tell her you are going to administration. (Or write a note) She will get pissy I promise, plan for that.
Then tell the principal and say "not ok".

I understand that it is not your job, however, I am so freaking protective of my kids that I'm not sure I could allow them to be "abused" like that again.These are children, we show we care by being there. I could never abandon a child after they were traumatized like that. You KNOW they will NEVER forget that moment for as long as they live. I might just keep that student in my classroom during that time to send a message (after you've talked to the teacher) and say it's for a "time out" for the rest of the year.

She might get pissy, oh well.

travelingfar 04-13-2018 07:03 AM

Do not go with your kids to art. It isn't your problem that she treats kids badly. It is your administrator's problem at this point.

spedder1 04-13-2018 06:55 AM

I'd go with them. Tell the students and the art teacher ahead of time so that they all understand that you will be staying. The students will stay safe from the teacher's wrath and she won't get an extra "planning time". You can take work with that you'd planned to do, anyway. Win-win.

GreyhoundGirl 04-13-2018 06:34 AM

I'm sorry, but I disagree with people saying to go with the kids to art or keep them from art. That is absolutely not your job and overstepping boundaries. How would you feel as a teacher if someone came into your room and did that? This is absolutely the job of admin. If you already know that admin is aware and she is on an improvement plan, then document what you heard (not what kids told you, because again, overstepping) and talk to admin and let him follow up and investigate.

NerdTeach 04-13-2018 03:42 AM

Document and take it to admin. Maybe admin will let you use your hour of planning and give the students art instead or tag along with them or something. How awful that she spoke that way to little people who look up to the adults around them. Poor little guy. They're lucky to have you to defend them.

whiteturtle 04-13-2018 03:28 AM

I agree with The Trunch. I would take my laptop and work with me and go with them. I would also let admin know what is happening. Another adult needs to be there with them. So sorry this happened.

travelingfar 04-13-2018 01:52 AM

That is awful. The kids should continue to go to art, however. I would notify the administration about this even though nothing will probably happen. It is not OK to treat children in such a nasty manner.

Tori58 04-12-2018 11:48 PM

It sounds pretty unprofessional, for sure, and definitely not the way to get a class to cooperate with her. On the other hand, speaking as a former specialist, I used to get pretty frustrated when classroom teachers somehow expected me to have as much in-depth knowledge of their students as they did despite the fact that I saw upwards of 300 kids a week, none of them for more than 90 minutes/week. So at the end of a 9 week grading period, for instance, I had seen them for roughly the same number of minutes that the classroom teacher had seen them for at the end of 3 days. At the end of the school year, I had seen them for the same number of minutes that the classroom teacher had seen them for at the end of 2 1/2 weeks. Not only that, but students who had issues like autism, bipolar disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, etc. were often placed in my classroom without so much as a heads-up about what was going on with them. As for any information about their academics, I had access to nothing beyond quarterly grades. Issues with their home lives may or may not get communicated to me - usually not unless the students told me. And, let me tell you, keeping track of who was and was not there for directions last week is a vastly different proposition when you see hundreds of kids in a week than it is when you see maybe 20. You pretty much need to rely on the student to TELL YOU if they missed something and don't know what to do, although generally I never found that kids could remember directions for a week anyway so I probably would have reviewed them.

Did you ever go to this art teacher and let her know how emotionally fragile this boy is and what his home life is like? If not, there's a very good chance that she didn't know it. If your school culture is such that the classroom teachers routinely blame the special area teachers when their classroom management breaks down rather than helping them, and if all of you see their main function in the school as providing you with prep time, then it's probably been a tough year, indeed, for all your specialists.

And, BTW, how is that you know she's been on an improvement plan for 3 years? I would think that would be something that was confidential between her and her supervisor?

TheTrunch 04-12-2018 08:44 PM

Instead of having them miss out, go with them so all goes well. Is she new? Sounds like she is going to need to figure out how to deal with the students in a better way. One thing though, as an Intervention teacher for a few years now, I have seen how students will act HORRIBLE with someone besides their teacher. Like they turn into crazed zombies. One supposedly really nice boy came into my room the other day and tried something. He was defiant and belligerent. I finally go him to go. The kids in my group were shocked. His teacher was shocked. BUT not the librarian. She said he can turn on a dime...but never for his teacher.

Not to excuse the art teacher,... just go with her and you can model how to keep them in line.

Amy L 04-12-2018 06:42 PM

I agree; admin needs to know. If they're going to leave her in the room, they need someone else to be there all of the time. No excuse for that behavior. Hugs to your students.

UniversalDes 04-12-2018 06:38 PM

Hello there,

As a future admin, I'd want to know what happened so that way I can do my investigation from both sides. That Art teacher was way out of line and should not have embarrassed or bullied your student. I am livid and I had a teacher who was like that towards my students when I taught Second Grade to the point that my one student had tears and didn't want to go to the other teacher's class.

As an admin, I'd follow up as no teacher has the right to bully or belittle other students like your Art teacher did. Ugh, I'm sorry that this happened to your kiddo and your class!

all41 04-12-2018 05:50 PM

I would take this to admin as others have suggested. I would let them handle it. Hopefully they will follow up and ask some students about what happened in the class before you got there and can confirm they way you were treated. I would continue to take my students to this class. She is a teacher and has standards to teach too. I would not want to interrupt her class schedule or prevent my students getting art education. I would not stay in the room to observe because that does not fall into my job descriptions. It's not my job to observe other teachers.

Renea 04-12-2018 05:42 PM

Go to admin and have them question some of the students. I would still take my students to art but I'd go with them stay and take notes.

This teacher is out of control and the kids need to be protected from her

StillHereSome 04-12-2018 05:36 PM

That makes my heart hurt. I so feel for that boy but glad to hear that his classmates jumped to his defense. I could slap that art teacher. I agree with the above posters, I would not give up any planning time, with end of year approaching, you need all you can get! However, I would still poke my head in from time to time.

Keltikmom 04-12-2018 04:47 PM

I am livid on your behalf.

I would pull a few of your "ace" students aside and ask them what went on. If the majority of the story is the same, I would go to admin.

And, I wouldn't take them back either. If she asks (which I doubt) tell her the truth. She acted unprofessionally.

Or take them, but stay the whole time.

klarabelle 04-12-2018 03:59 PM

So art teacher gets planning time for being a horrible person. Don't give up your time. Maybe stick your head in the class 1/2 way through.

signedout 04-12-2018 03:53 PM

This is her last year. So I don't know if it would do any good to go to admin. I know admin is aware of problems, as she's been on an improvement plan for at least the last year (that I know of).

GreyhoundGirl 04-12-2018 03:51 PM

What Kahlua said.

kahluablast 04-12-2018 03:43 PM

I would go to admin if I heard it with my own ears and felt that strongly about it.

signedout 04-12-2018 03:11 PM

I am livid! I went to pick my upper elementary class up from art today. I have one boy who is incredibly emotionally fragile - comes from an abusive home, is very sweet and kind, very low academically, but a good kid all around.

Well, I came into the art room and he was crying, surrounded by 5 or 6 classmates. The art teacher came right up to me and told me that she made him cry. Apparently his picture didn't look like she thought it should, so she berated him, telling how awful his picture was, why couldn't he follow directions (which she gave last week when he was absent). The other students jumped to his defense, and she hollered at them and berated them.

While I was there, she told them how awful they were, and how they were horrible people, and she didn't even want to teach them anymore. She just kept heaping it on until I told my class to line up and leave.
It was horrible, and I was PISSED! My students aren't perfect by any means, but they are not bad kids, and CERTAINLY don't deserve to have an adult talk to them that way.

I'm considering not taking my class to art for the rest of the year (just 2 classes), and give up my hour of planning during that time.
I've lost it in the classroom before, but never would I consider being that disrespectful to another person, much less treat children that way.

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