ProTeacher Community

ProTeacher Community (http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/index.php)
-   Magnolia Room (http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=58)
-   -   Teaching Children to Care, Chap 1 and 2 (http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=170767)

ryansmom 07-05-2009 06:40 PM

Teaching Children to Care, Chap 1 and 2
 
Here are the notes I made as I read these two chapters. I have some questions at the end that I would love to get your input on.

Chapter 1--
I love the way the author talks to the children when she wants them to include everyone-- "you have a gift to give."

Chapter 2--
Boy, can I relate to the author's first classroom. She has everything set up beautifully.... until the children arrive. I didn't have dividers that kept me from seeing everyone but I had materials that were not child friendly or not really conducive to independent work. I guess I am not surprised to learn that this is a rookie mistake!

The author comments to the students about what she sees that is RIGHT; she makes no comments on what went wrong. That is, she does not point that she asked the students to use the materials with care, to place the crayons back in the box and now they are on the floor. Instead, she asks the students to remind her of what they are supposed to do. Talking this way makes so much sense but is not the way I have worked in the past :(; this will take some consistent attention on my part to do this right.

It seems to me that learning to talk to students the way the author does will make more difference in managing my classroom than any other skill I can learn.

I am constantly asking students to walk down the stairs. I love the author's remarks," I see too many steps. Show me again how you walk down the stairs." I just love it!

All her comments are encouraging, specific, and positive.

(I skimmed over the morning meeting, guided discovery, and three stages of the school year as I have the morning meeting book and the first six weeks of school and put them to use last year-- not as successfully as I would have liked but I am familiar with these parts and love them and will be doing them again. Please feel free to discuss or question these parts; I just don't have any notes to share.)

Question: on page 32, the author lists several comments made to students to show the students that she "sees" them and is aware of who they are and what they are doing. Each comment acknowledges that she sees them but none of the comments say good job, well done or I like the way you are doing that.... For those of you who have been through the training or are just really good at this positive talk, is there are reason she just notices and acknowledges what the children are doing rather than telling them that she likes it?

Question: Does anyone have an example of what to use in a portrait book? I love the idea and would like to do that with my class this year. I think I have 3rd grade this year.

Okay, your turn. Please share your thoughts on these chapters. Shall we read the next two chapters-- Making the Rules and Teaching the Rules-- for next week?

Adaya 07-05-2009 08:39 PM

"Controlling Praise"
 
Quote:

Question: on page 32, the author lists several comments made to students to show the students that she "sees" them and is aware of who they are and what they are doing. Each comment acknowledges that she sees them but none of the comments say good job, well done or I like the way you are doing that.... For those of you who have been through the training or are just really good at this positive talk, is there are reason she just notices and acknowledges what the children are doing rather than telling them that she likes it?
In the resource book from RC2 they talk about this type of language being "controlling praise" and claim it is counterproductive. (Page 9 of the RC2 Resource Book, published in 2008)
<!--arrow_red--> "When teachers use this type of praise, children develop extrinsic motivations for learning - they work to please the teacher and earn more praise. Children's intrinsic desire to learn, grow, and be contributing members of a community is actually weakened by controlling praise."
<!--arrow_red--> "Another problem with controlling praise... is that it tends to be a response to apparently high-quality outcomes or products. But what about the child how has demonstrated inventive strategies or great persistence in finding answers that aren't one hundred percent correct? "Good try" implies that the child's effort, through commendable, was lacking."

However, this depends on the purpose... If you are using it as Celebratory Praise then it's okay... (Page 11 of the RC2 Resource Book, published in 2008)
<!--arrow_red--> "Unlike controlling praise, praise that's meant purely to celebrate a behavior, a trait, or a piece of work can be very effective teacher language. Reading a student's piece of fiction, a teacher is genuinely tickled by the conclusion. "I love the way you ended your story!" she exclaims spontaneously. She doesn't say this to get the student to keep writing good conclusions or to teach the student anything. Rather, she's expressing true appreciation."
<!--arrow_red--> "When our purpose is not to affect children's behavior but simply to express delight, one human being to another, general praise can be appropriate. A sincere "good idea!" or What a beautiful drawing!" used for this purpose can build genuine, warm, and mutually respectful relationships among people."

Leftytoo2 07-05-2009 09:11 PM

Not saying "I like the way you..."
 
Becky Bailey (I think her book is Conscious Discipline?) says that when you say you "like it" when they do things, or even thank them for doing something they should have done anyway, you are taking responsibility away from them. Then you make it about you, that they did it to please you. What you want is for them to do it for themselves, because they are responsible. She says to just praise, but you be specific in the praise, and don't say thank you, because again, it makes it about you again. So, if it's a command, for instance, "Put the crayons in the basket", then you praise with something like, "Wow, you found every crayon on the floor, even the one under the table!" (I'm not very good at this yet, so it's not a great example, but I'm trying with my own kids! :-)) Now, if you ask them to do you a favor, "Can you go get my purse off the table, please?" Then when they do it, you can say, "Thank you." Because it was a favor, not something that they were commanded to do. Do you see the difference?

I found I was even thanking my son for brushing his teeth! How silly is that? So it became a way for him to control me--if he was mad at me, he wouldn't brush his teeth, because it was all about me! So now I'm working on releasing that responsibility and I still tell him to brush his teeth, but I never thank him for it, I just will make some comment on his being very responsible, doing it all on his own, or that his teeth look really shiny or something like that.

Georgiateach 07-06-2009 07:25 AM

Chapters 1 and 2
 
As I read Chapter 1, these two points resonated with me:
  • The two goals of discipline:
Creation of self-control
I was guilty of assuming that students know all about self-control. I now know that students have to be taught ways to interact and control their bodies. School is not the same as being at home. All students come to us with diverse home situations and must be taught appropriate behaviors. In especially kindergarten, this may be the child’s first interaction with other children.

Creation of community
I also liked the statement from Charney, “You have a gift to give.” She emphasized the importance of community-building as an ongoing process. Every person has a need to feel acceptance. Children who feel safe and connected to their classroom environment will thrive.

Chapter 2

I See you, I see Everything!

I have been guilty of saying, “ I like the way you____.” On page 32, I love Charney’s suggestions for commenting on what you see even when redirecting negative behavior. I liked that the language is encouraging, specific, and positive. This will take practice for me too! I am quick to say, “Stop it!” Charney’s emphasis was to notice what children do right.

I am curious about the morning meeting. There never seems to be enough time for this. I am wondering if this is only used in the beginning of the year or if it is a daily routine.

As I read through the stages, 1,2, 3, all of those made sense, as students are gradually released with responsibility. They are taught specifically the classroom procedures for every facet of the school day.

The first two chapters are very interesting. I am hoping that in the preceding chapters that Charney gives specific suggestions about dealing with extremely defiant children using this approach.

Adaya 07-06-2009 09:05 AM

Georgiateach
 
Quote:

I am curious about the morning meeting. There never seems to be enough time for this. I am wondering if this is only used in the beginning of the year or if it is a daily routine.
I do Morning Meeting daily, all year long. Morning Meeting time precious and sacred to me so I don't let anything take it over because I find that the Morning Meeting starts our day right, focused, energized and ready to learn. Our day runs much more smoothly (less conflicts, interruptions, etc) when we start our day together as a team. It's a good way to really get to know your students - their likes/dislikes, activities, and home life.

At first I wasn't sure I could give up "instructional time" to do morning meeting everyday. But once I started I realized that I am using this instructional time the best way possible - teaching them how to work together, respectfully (which is not only a classroom skill, but a life skill).

If you are interested in learning more about the Morning Meeting portion of Responsive Classroom a good resource would be The Morning Meeting Book by Roxann Kriete.

Georgiateach 07-08-2009 01:13 PM

Adaya
 
How long does your morning meeting last? Do you lead it? I am going to check out the book you recommended. It seems to be a great way to build community as the author suggests.

Adaya 07-09-2009 05:21 AM

Morning Meeting
 
My morning meeting lasts around 15-20 minutes (depending on the activity and greeting I select). I wouldn't say that I lead it, I would say I facilitate it. I select the type of share, greeting, and activity we will do but the children are very interactive with each other and once it is set up I quietly sit back and let the children participate with each other.

It is a great way to build community and I think the book will really help and support you, it helped tremendously for me. It not only tells you what to do in each portion of the meeting but also gives you different ideas for different activities and greetings.

I hope that helps.

eastfirst 07-09-2009 06:41 PM

I like the way you...
 
Could you guys share a specific example of what to say instead? TIA

bookworm86 07-10-2009 08:24 AM

eastfirst
 
Eastfirst, you should check out "The Power of Our Words." It's available at the Stenhouse website and right now you can read the entire book online!! For a fast answer to your question about what to say instead, go to this link and scroll down to page 10: http://www.stenhouse.com/pdfs/pow_appa.pdf . Praise that is not manipulative or phony is all about telling the child what you notice and letting him/her devise how he/she feels about their work. I highly recommend this read!

Off to read the first two chapter of TCTC. I'll be back shortly to comment I'm sure. :D

eastfirst 07-10-2009 06:06 PM

Thanks Bookworm
 
I am on my way to check it out!

ryansmom 07-10-2009 06:24 PM

thanks for sharing
 
Thank you to those of you who have posted answers to my questions about what to say and how to say it. I have never really liked saying, "I like the way Susie is standing in line. I like the way Johnie is facing forward." etc. This type of talking is used by many of the more senior teachers in my school; their classrooms always seem well under control so I have tried using the language but have never been comfortable with it. I am so glad to know why it made me uncomfortable and that there are other ways to talk to children that will work better for me.
You have given me a lot to think about. Thank you for sharing your expertise.

miss.anderson 08-06-2009 09:34 AM

bookworm86
 
Thanks for that link! I'm familiar with the RC approach, so reading those pages was a great reminder! It's very easy to forget about this teacher language during the year...


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:08 AM.

Copyright © ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net