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-   -   Other Teachers with guns (http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=599234)

Tounces 02-22-2018 09:15 PM

Teachers with guns
 
....immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A ďgun freeĒ school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

This is a Twitter by Trump.
I canít believe that itís even being discussed that teachers have guns in school. We do so much already I donít think the ďbonus payĒ and having teachers police the school is the answer.

Nobody will want to go into teaching with ideas like this. So sad.

whiteturtle 02-23-2018 03:19 AM

I would not want that responsibility. There are so many ways having guns in the school on a daily basis could go wrong. How about fund us properly for the things we actually need to teach, fund security on and in our building and hire trained professionals to protect children? Fund character education and instead of testing our kids to death, allow us to teach them to be well adjusted people. It is a mental health issue that needs to be looked at very seriously. We need to do better to treat sick people and take threats seriously at all levels.

chalkdusty 02-23-2018 04:42 AM

It will be time to retire if this idea comes to fruition. Adding a gun to the classroom only increases the availability of a weapon. Suppose a student overpowers a teacher. I've worked with plenty of petite teachers and kids who tower over them.

Who will pay for the firearm? The training (REAL training)? The liability insurance? The holster in order to carry?

Sorry, but I got into education to help kids learn to read, write, and calculate. I have policed behavior, but I am not comfortable with carrying at school.

rana712 02-23-2018 04:56 AM

Schools have become a target
 
If we harden our schools so that people cannot attack inside a school, they will move to movie theaters, public parks, soccer tournaments. This is not really a question a school safety. This is a question of how to ensure that guns are not accessible to people who will misuse them. It is a question of what we want our society to look like.

I know that I would never agree to having a gun in my classroom. I don't want the pre-K teacher across the hall to have a gun. I don't want our kids to think that they can only be safe if someone armed is standing next to them. That is a very frightening way to live.

teacher0729 02-23-2018 05:29 AM

Iím sure Iím in the minority, but I would rather have a gun to fight with than chairs, scissors, canned goods, or books. I would not want to have a gun on me all the time and there is NO way I am going into the hallway with a gunman and trying to shoot him... but if I am hiding in my classroom and a gun could be in a secure lock block that maybe only opens during a real situation or is very secure, I would rather have that with me while we hide and there is a shooter in the building than just wait to be killed. And the pay should then be very much increased if this is what we are expected to do.

Elyssa 02-23-2018 06:14 AM

So in the midst of the chaos of
 
a school shooting, all the armed teachers will know exactly where to go to shoot the shooter. Meanwhile, they can leave their classes to fend for themselves. So what if a bunch of kindergartners or first graders panic and run directly into the line of fire. No worries, teacher is off on a mission. Collateral damage and all that.

TAOEP 02-23-2018 08:13 AM

I am so glad that I am retired and will not have to deal with working with armed teachers. I have many concerns.

1. How would decisions be made about which teachers/staff would be armed?

2. How would the knowledge that the teacher was/might be armed affect the trusting relationship between students, parents, and teacher?

3. How would adding the requirement or possibility of being armed affect which people decide to become teachers?

lisa53 02-23-2018 09:01 AM

Never mind...on further reflection...

Lottalove 02-23-2018 09:15 AM

My thoughts
 
I am a gun owner, a hunter, target shooter and concealed carry permit holder.

However, I wouldn't necessarily want to carry one at school or be the responsible armed person during an active shooter event. I might if they asked and provided compensation. I'd have to think about it. A LOT.

BUT, I think just making the law could be somewhat of a deterrent in itself. If the active shooters know that concealed weapons are possible and probable, it will make some of them think twice.

Schools are so attractive right now as shooters KNOW that no or few people can stop them. With the possibility that someone could shoot back, they may pick a different target. Not ideal but it could help our school kids and teachers.

Like many have said, If someone is determined to kill, they will find a way.

Izzy23 02-23-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

BUT, I think just making the law could be somewhat of a deterrent in itself. If the active shooters know that concealed weapons are possible and probable, it will make some of them think twice.
But why would it be a deterrent? Most shooters don't plan to survive the shooting. Some of them even kill themselves. That the Parkland shooter fled and was taken alive is extremely rare. Sandy Hook, Columbine, Vegas, Orlando - these shooters all died.

So even if you manage to fire back, they will still kill people and still achieve their goal. Because their goal was not to survive, but to kill.

Take away the damn guns.

funkster 02-23-2018 10:30 AM

Take the gun away
 
and do not release the name of the shooter. Give him a number or a John Doe. Some of these shooters really want history to remember them and to be notorious. They want to get their name into the news. To know that their identity will never be released stops one motivation for the shooting. Not all, but one is better than none.

Make a law that it is illegal to name the shooter. News should name the victims not the gunman.

Lottalove 02-23-2018 10:38 AM

OK, Fine
 
Take away guns from everyone--Oh, what? Criminals don't care about a law banning guns? How dare they?

And vehicle accidents (drunk or sober drivers) kill more people than guns. We better take away YOUR vehicle because Joe Blow down the road just killed a family of six with HIS...

Makes perfect sense.

lisa53 02-23-2018 10:50 AM

We regulate automobile use. You must pass a test, have a current license, be a minimum age, take training, and have insurance. We can and should do the same for anyone who wants to own and use a gun. And just as we have special licenses for truckers and commercial drivers, we should require additional training and testing for concealed carry and/or semi-automatic and automatic weapons.

SusaninNJ 02-23-2018 11:22 AM

Armed teachers
 
Even discussing this is bizarre. This should not be a serious discussion.

Elyssa 02-23-2018 11:46 AM

So if guns are no more dangerous
 
than knives or vehicles, why don't we arm teachers with their own cars and butcher knives?

funkster 02-23-2018 12:54 PM

vehicles..
 
when automobiles first were loved by Americans there were no speed limits. There were no laws against driving drunk. There were no seat belts. There were no air bags. There were no car seats for kids.

Yes, there are still accidents and people who break the law. But as we put more legislation into effect then we make it safer to drive. Without laws about driving safely then motorists can drive carelessly with wild abandon and there is nothing others can do about it. It would be legal and there would be no consequences.

Please try to listen and think about what these teens are suggesting as gun control.
No where did they advise taking away the neighbor's guns because someone else did something bad, just like you don't lose your driver's license if your neighbor is a careless driver. They want background checks. They want a waiting period before buying a gun. They want an minimum age-like driving. They want only gun stores to sell guns, not gun fairs. They want assault rifles and those tech devices that can change a rifle into a weapon of mass murder to be banned. They are not trying to take the shotgun you use for skeet shooting away.

Giving a teacher a gun and asking him/her to go up against an angry shooter who probably has murder/suicide as his intent only brings to mind the saying "bringing a knife to a gun fight.

teach_love 02-23-2018 01:35 PM

This may have already been said by others...
 
...but, who watches after the children left behind by the teacher with the gun while they go perform their "new duty"? Do you just have a class of 1st graders, 6th graders or any grade to take care of themselves?

...but, schools can't fund paper towels, where are they going to get money for bonuses and trainings?

...but, what happens when a gun ends up in a child's hands because the teacher was distracted by 20 other situations going on at once and not fully aware of the weapon on their person? I've heard several times teachers make more decisions than brain surgeons.

...but, most teachers refuse safe restraint training because they feel it greatly increases their liability if they ever restrain a child.

pausebutton 02-23-2018 03:04 PM

The PP's questions are my thoughts as well. On top of that though, what about schools like mine... we're a super small elementary school and NONE of the teachers want to be responsible for being an armed teacher...so what's the solution for schools like mine?

whatever 02-23-2018 03:26 PM

Where I live, in MO
 
We would have to take classes and training to get a concealed carry permit if I wanted one. Though MO may be one of those states where open carry is now permitted.

I have to submit to a background check to buy a gun, I had a waiting period on the gun, in fact. My daughter had to take classes to get a Missouri Hunting License--We've had to do all those things mentioned... There are gun shows but I am not sure of the rules there. I've never purchased a gun there.

Is MO just different from other areas? I am not sure of the rules/laws in other states.

But, I do agree with the PPs that mention that most criminals or illegal shooters don't really care about the laws.

apple annie 02-23-2018 08:50 PM

I wonder what that would do to liability insurance rates schools would have to pay if teachers starting bringing guns to school. And maybe teachers themselves would be required to carry some form of malpractice insurance. Someone, somewhere, inevitably, is going to be shot accidentally. Get ready for some lawsuits.

Why would you ask a teacher to be a police officer? I wouldn't hire a doctor to do my taxes. I wouldn't ask a lawyer to build me a house.

apple annie 02-24-2018 02:19 AM

In response to Trump...
 
Hey here's an idea... let's get President Trump "highly trained" to carry a gun. He can protect himself, and then the taxpayers can save all that money we've been spending on his Secret Service detail.

teach_love 02-24-2018 04:27 AM

Let's be sensible...
 
...just for a moment.

What about the consideration of bullet resistant/proof doors/windows? What about locked doors at all times that require buzzing in as an entry method? What about a sign in method that takes a photo of a visitor? What about less days where the community is invited in, causing mass chaos in the halls (grandparent's day, holiday meals/celebrations)? What about tactical equipment that is embedded in the ceilings to deter an intruder, to slow them down, like those smoke screens that are remotely set off by police watching the cameras in live action time through security cameras? How about legitimate training for lock-down procedures? If you want somebody in the building armed, it needs to be somebody with highly trained skills, not just some random teacher who likes to hunt. The thought of arming anything less than a highly skilled person scares me to death. The thought of metal detectors without other precautions scares me to death due to people just assuming they are safe. I'm not just a teacher, I'm a parent too. If we can't fund basic classroom supplies and are barely keeping doors open due to lack of funding, who is going to pay for these gun toting bonuses? There are other upgrades that would be one time costs (structural upgrades) that could be done before arming teachers or placing unmanned metal detectors at the doors.

allier 02-24-2018 04:46 AM

Guns - no
 
I like AppleAnnie's idea, but I'll expand - no more secret service detail for anyone. It's costing taxpayers millions more than previous administrations. Train the president and his entourage - maybe they will become "weapons talented" (his words). Put the cost savings into schools!

Of course, the idea, which already had been suggested by the NRA after the tragedy in Connecticut, is ridiculous.

apple annie 02-24-2018 08:13 AM

Yes, beach_love!
 
Agree with beach_love! Spend money on outfitting the schools themselves with safety features that are unobtrusively embedded into school buildings, and are a defensive weapon rather than an offensive one. Spending money on guns and doing PD's for teachers on weapons handling, and filling our schools up with more guns would actually preclude such measures due to budget constraints and worse, give a false sense of security, when there are way too many variables and possibilities for disaster and accidents.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1166029891710


The President has called for arming teachers and filling schools up with guns for student safety, but where is his protest against lead paint, poisoned drinking fountains, mold, rats and cockroaches, leaking roofs, failing HVAC systems, etc., etc, etc. Oh wait, I guess the National Association of Exterminators and Furnace Repairmen hasn't funneled thirty million bucks to his campaign.

pausebutton 02-24-2018 07:41 PM

Another thought that came to mind...if you call the police about a man with a gun in the building...and the Mr.5thGrade is walking around with a gun...doesn't that put Mr.5thGrade at risk of accidentally getting shot by the police?

SpedinTx 02-26-2018 11:10 AM

This is not a second amendment issue. No one is saying remove all the guns, just the tactical weapons. There is no reason to hold a semi automatic rifle with 30 plus bullets per clip other than to kill multiple people as quick as possible. These weapons are not for hunting or for self defense, they are offensive murdering machines.

The Supreme Court has already ruled that these weapons are not protected under the 2nd amendment.

Elyssa 03-08-2018 08:00 AM

Heard something on the radio yesterday
 
that teachers would have to complete 132 hours (!!!) of gun training before being allowed to carry a gun in school. That's nice. Because teachers have so much free time and are always looking for a way to fill nearly five 40-hour weeks!! SHEESH. :p<!--giggle-->LOL:)

Tounces 03-12-2018 11:06 PM

Protest walk out March 14 @ 10:00 am
 
Thereís a national walkout for students on March 14th at 10:00 am for 17 minutes-1 minute for every person that was killed in Florida.
Is your school participating?

Tawaki 03-13-2018 01:35 PM

Welp....
 
Who's gonna pick up that liability policy to cover when said teacher takes out a Kindie with a ricochet bullet?

Because when an innocent kid gets shot by accident, the lawyer sharks will go through all that paper to see where the holes are.

Also, what are the Vegas odds on how fast district throws that teacher straight under the bus?

Unless you got awesome sniper skills, no way would I sign up for that mess.

funkster 03-13-2018 01:52 PM

Tounces...
 
our regional high school has a plan to assemble in an indoor space. All the details are not available. The designated indoor space is not posted for the public to see. They are scheduled to have about 20 minutes. All students who wish to participate can assemble there, all others will be in classrooms with teachers. The regular classroom schedule will continue after that.
Seems like a good plan. The students are able to take part but in hopefully a safe place.
There will be no attendance taken so there will be no consequences for those who participate and those who do not.

pumpkincake 03-18-2018 09:58 AM

I really don't see why this is even being considered.

sophia981 03-19-2018 10:03 AM

This is just a temp solution
 
I feel this is just a temp solution, which would not make changes in longer term.

Shelby3 03-21-2018 07:37 AM

Npr
 
reported how many millions (billions?) it would take to give teachers and school employees just the basic weapons training.

Probably happily provided by the NRA.


I would not want the responsibility. Can't think how many minutes it would take to unlock, get the gun and ready myself for a shooter.

funkster 03-21-2018 07:49 AM

Could we ever really
 
ready ourselves for the shooter, if the shooter was a former student?

I know I am repeating myself, but the military training isn't about shooting a weapon, with military weapons that shoot that many bullets a minute you do not need to be a sniper. The training is to prepare you to shoot and kill another human being. They train you to see them as the enemy and just a target.

Teachers are not going to get that type of training..or will they?

whd507 04-14-2018 06:06 PM

Missouri is open carry/constitutional carry, but you need a concealed to carry in a school or government building.

buying at a gun show is exactly like buying in a store, same background check, Missouri does not have a waiting period, so if you are cleared you are on your way.


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