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The only thing I ever wanted to do is teach...
Old 09-06-2020, 05:17 AM
 
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To be able to have my own classroom, to be a respected member of a school, to maybe someday get involved in extra-curricular activities, to be a role model to children, teach respect and watch them grow. There's struggles with the job, certainly, but I can easily overcome these and not complain.

I've been in worse. 11 hour days in an office for less than 20 dollars. Miserable phone calls. Dealing with builders, installers, timetables for completing jobs, trucks breaking down, guys calling out sick... give me a scenario, I've probably done it.

Problem is, I can't get hired. 17 interviews this summer and only two offers: one a Catholic school an hour and a half away that pays less and would likely put me in financial struggle as I'd have to relocate, and another a two to three month long-term position. I took the long-term position in a district I know fairly well. I wasn't too keen on the Catholic School and was told I had to commit a year if I went. I knew no one in that area and being a private school, I would make less for such a far distance in a more expensive county.

The point is I'm WANTING to be a teacher and I'm WILLING to take less pay then what the four degrees I have. I'll sacrifice making money for a job close by that's worth to teach. I'm not in it for the money personally, I'm in it for a career, to make a difference in the right school. But how can I if I don't get hired?

I feel like Moonlight Graham, having only one stint as a teacher (5 months) before I was laid off and unable to return to the "big leagues." Now all I get are calls to be a building substitute, which are simply below anything I need, which is experience (I've done the subbing before, I have nothing to gain from it).

If this long-term job doesn't open up opportunity, I have nothing to do but either relocate (I've tried, there is no guarantee), or find another career (which is equally as tough). My family isn't holding me back, I can leave but there's no guarantee I get something. I can always look for teaching jobs, but I have to move on with my life too. I can't wait for it to come to me.

The sad part is that I'm very qualified, so much to the point I'm flawed (sounds backwards, but it's true). I've done years of teaching as a volunteer for free, I have four degrees (willing to take less money) and I've learned to master the interview. Now, I get terrible feedback, which is ironic seeing that we as teachers are supposed to give students excellent feedback along the lines of "your qualifications are great but we went in another direction." I've even utilized Google Classroom and online learning, creating my own series of bringing literature to life on youtube, which is highly innovative and like nothing anyone else has done. Teachers and students alike approved it in my last district. I put the work and effort in.

I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to see why I'm living off a part-time job and a substituting job while less educated individuals get hired for positions. I will not be a building substitute or long-term sub forever, I just can't.

Anyway, sorry for my rant. It's a difficult time and everyone (professional teachers included) say "you'll get hired," and "jobs will open up" but it's not true. They've been wrong and have simply said that to keep hopes up.
There's not much hope. They've been wrong and I don't have time to waste my talent waiting for something to happen.

If nothing improves, I might teach abroad. Not because I want to, but because I have no choice and the program sets you up with a real school who would care about me and actually want me to teach (and I'd have a sustainable job). I know, my attitude is a bit bitter, but honestly, why am I sitting here with four degrees, state insurance at the lowest level, and having low to minimum wage jobs? It's just stupid. I've worked all my years to become a teacher.

I had a stint of 5 months in the big leagues, that's all I could get. Feedback? Advice? I'm at a loss. I at least have a long-term sub job, but what do I do when that finishes? Should I pretend I have one less graduate degree? Should I find a new career? Granted, I'm still young and have some money saved away and no loans. But this is ridiculous how the best jobs I can find require less than a high school degree or require the minimum to teach.

No one has a problem calling me to ask if I want to be a building sub because they passed up my original application... this is ridiculous.


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Old 09-06-2020, 06:57 AM
 
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I don't know your whole situation, but the fact that you mention 4 degrees several times in this post stands out to me. As someone who's been in interview committees for hiring this would turn me off if I kept hearing about your degrees.

The part about not getting hired is likely due to the area of the country you live. I'm originally from that tri-state area and know the competitiveness of finding a job.

RELOCATE, Get a job and experience, move back after a few years.

I live on NC now and see many from your area do just this! I did not. We moved here for DH's career, but I had 4 job offers in a week! It's not quite that easy now, bit still fairly easy.

I'd recommend applying and interviewing, probably via zoom before you up and move.

Little about here:. Pay will be way less, but so is cost of living.

I live near one of the biggest school districts in the stat and they still have openings.

https://www.applitrack.com/wcpss/onlineapp/default.aspx
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:07 AM
 
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I’m impressed you got 17 interviews, I only got 2 and I applied to every public school job I was qualified for,
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Old 09-06-2020, 06:13 PM
 
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Interviewing is hard and you donít know what theyíre looking for. One of the difficulties is that you have to explain why youíre qualified for the position without coming across as bragging. I have to say that in this post you come across as bragging quite a bit (mentioning the degrees repeatedly, talking about the YouTube channel that everyone loved) without being willing to take the critical feedback, which you dismiss by saying that as teachers weíre supposed to give excellent feedback. I didnít hear you mention taking the feedback seriously and trying to change your interviews based on it.
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Old 09-06-2020, 07:07 PM
 
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In all honesty, I don't brag much in the interviews. I'm bragging here because of context, but I've mentioned none of that in the interviews. I may have mentioned 4 degrees on occasion, but not every interview. I swear I don't brag in them. I have been here to set the context, but bragging is not the reason I haven't been landing jobs.

The reason I mention the degrees here so much is because I think they're actually working against me in that they have to pay me more. I never brought that to attention in an interview.

And I note that I usually always ask for feedback and appreciate it... but most of the time they don't give me feedback. That's their issue, not on me. A couple gave me great feedback.

I can honestly tell you that bragging is not the issue... I'm nowhere near unconfident but I'm not over-confident.

Someone mentioned relocating... I've heard this before, but why is it such a factor? What makes relocating ideal? My academics/education doesn't change.

teachnkids, how do you know where I'm from? I don't believe I mentioned it... by the way, I applied.



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You are too expensive
Old 09-06-2020, 07:57 PM
 
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First, your 4 graduate degrees will likely place you too high up on the salary scale. You can't just agree to take less money. The district has to follow the contracted salary agreement in place for everyone. At interviews, how do you explain all these degrees with so little teaching experience?

Connecticut (and the rest of the northeast) is a tough place to get a teaching job without full-time public school experience and connections. Have you included public and charter schools in very low-income cities in your job search? Are any of your degrees or certifications in one of the critical need areas of Math/Science, Special Ed or English Learner Ed? Teachnkids has given good advice about applying in states with more job opportunities.

Also, this is a lousy time to be job hunting. Many districts are completely virtual right now and have no idea how many teachers they will need when hybrid or full time in-class kicks in.

Good luck!


New Edit... your state is listed in your Member Profile.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:11 PM
 
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Quote:
New Edit... your state is listed in your Member Profile.
Yes! This is where I saw it!

Relocating gives you the opportunity to get experience. You are in an area where there are probably 100s for 1 position. Other areas of the country may have 20 for 1 position. The odds are better. Northeast has always been flooded with teachers and few jobs.

Glad you applied! I'm happy to provide other districts and any other help you might need.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:22 PM
 
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Someone mentioned relocating... I've heard this before, but why is it such a factor? What makes relocating ideal? My academics/education doesn't change.
With so many colleges in the Northeast, there has always been an overabundance of teaching candidates for every job. I know several teachers who moved to other states for a few years to gain experience. Some returned to their home state as soon as they got a teaching position, while others loved it and made it their new home .
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Old 09-07-2020, 04:33 AM
 
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I will say that CT is not the greatest place to live in. I love my heritage here but in terms of jobs, it's pretty terrible, and not just teaching. There are a lot of people in the grey area- too much education, too little experience. I never figured getting a degree in Education was part of that, but it certainly is. The place is a sugar-coated nightmare when it comes to employment and middle class people get the worse of it.

I'll start by saying I didn't intend to have 4 degrees- my path just happened to be unique and I joined education later in the game, after working in business for three years. It was in this business I got my graduate degree in English and Creative Writing, more as a personal gain and to give me leverage in the general job market (which was also terrible). When I realized I didn't want to be stuck in a job where I worked almost 60 hours a week scheduling and dispatching, I went to school to finish my graduate in Education. Thus I have all these degrees, no steady experience.

The virus itself is hurting the already bad economy here. Although the virus is pretty controlled, it took a toll on the job market. That's how I pretty much lost my first job due to budget cuts. If it weren't the virus, I might still be there. No guarantee. But aside from the virus, I had more interviews this year. So the virus isn't the only factor. Paying teachers is, and schools don't want to pay up in a crisis, no matter how skilled you are.

I thought about relocating but originally, I thought I needed to be certified in other states to do so, so I was facing a paradox. Now that I realize you can just apply and have a year or so to catch up to that state's standards, I feel a bit better about it. Still, everything I know is here, though CT kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the way things are handled. Aside from teaching, I applied to video production jobs (my other major), sales jobs, writing jobs, and basically anything. I get the same results- nothing, despite likely being more qualified than half the applicants.

I thought about completely "omitting" my graduate degree in English and Creative Writing on applications- completely omitting it in order to see if that would help, but doing so with sort of be "lying" on applications. I haven't done that but considered it.

It's terrible all around. People tell you to work hard and do your best. I do that and get nowhere. Meanwhile, others with less education and less experience get hired for a dime a dozen. I know this is a factor- I did get one offer in a Catholic school an hour and a half away. I would have had to relocate and live in a much more expensive area- there's no way I would have made money on a lesser rate than a public school.

But even getting long-term sub jobs haven't worked in my favor. It's a mystery as to who schools hire in CT- I don't know their formula but I do know that the interviews have been going well, according to schools who tell me that and can't give me more detailed feedback. I'm absolutely fed up with them though- I took notes and have answers to every question that I've memorized. Still no good, no matter how it goes. I did end up with a long-term sub job but it's not a full year. I plan to re-assess at its conclusion but I'm not too thrilled about where I am after all the work I put in.

I apologize if I sound like I'm bragging- I'm simply upset I've put all the work in (more than others in many cases) and haven't had success. I realize that every case is different and some have experience over education, but there isn't false logic behind education and reality. They tell you to go to school to get educated and then even with a BA and BS in CT, you don't have much success if it's not specific.

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Old 09-07-2020, 09:44 AM
 
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Try here: http://teachvirginia.org/

https://www.k12jobspot.com/Search/Op...Value=Maryland


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Old 09-07-2020, 09:52 AM
 
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Having tried for ten years in CT to get a teaching job, I finally moved to Virginia.

My experience with the job search in CT is that there is a lot of nepotism, ageism, and back-door politics. Often, it has nothing to do with how much education you have (esp. the wealthier districts). I also know that getting feedback from interviews is almost non-existent. I cannot tell you how many times I heard "we willl contact you either way" and heard nothing.
When I was there, I tried urban districts, rural districts - charter schools, - anywhere within a 50 mile radius and got nothing

When I began to look out of state, I received many interview rquests and had at least 5 job offers within a couple of months.

Like someone said - if you can go where teachers are needed - go. Otherwise, you may be "spinning your wheels" in CT
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:22 AM
 
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Thank you- the websites help because i don't know where to find the jobs. They're not all on SpringsSchool, and granted, I don't find that website to have the best interface. So it is really helpful. I will do my best in due time.
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Old 09-07-2020, 11:40 AM
 
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I teach in Virginia too and I know that there are often openings here in a variety of districts: suburban, urban, rural, whatever you'd prefer. We get a number of teachers who get their degrees in other states (mostly PA) and come to teach here. Sometimes they end up settling and putting down roots, other times they end up returning to their preferred states once they've gotten some experience.
I'm going to give you some advice and take it for what it's worth.
*Don't be afraid to omit the degrees unless you're applying for a position that directly relates to the degree (in which case it might help). Some districts will limit the amount that they'll give you---for example, they'll grant you a certain amount of money for having a master's degree plus 30 extra graduate credits but not more than that.
*Don't forget the "soft skills." Teachers at most schools I've worked at spend a lot of time working collaboratively. I've sat in on interviews where the better qualified candidate gets overlooked because of the way the manner in which they present themselves. They won't take an unqualified teacher over a qualified one but if choosing between two qualified teachers they'll pick the one they feel they can work with. I've seen teachers shoot themselves in the foot by being arrogant or coming across as a "know-it-all" or by doing things like chewing gum during the interview. I doubt they'd be told that this was a reason either.
*You say that you'll do your best "in due time." You've missed your main chance for the year to be honest. I teach in Virginia and we start tomorrow. The vast majority of vacancies have been filled as no one wants to start the year (especially this year) with no teacher in a classroom. I'm not saying you can't get a job this year but it's going to be really hard with school starting.
(To expand your circle of possibilities, bypass SpringsSchool and apply directly to each district. That's how jobs in the two biggest districts list their positions.
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Old 09-07-2020, 11:52 AM
 
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Thanks for the advice. Why I said "in due time" is because I have a long-term sub job. I am going to apply for an Oxford Seminars course in November, around when my long term job ends. If the job market doesn't work out then, I'll see where I am. I'm not ready to leave right now and work in Virginia the next day. That's just not happening. I'm going to test out the long-term job, get certified to teach abroad, and see where that brings me. At this point, I have all options on the table.

I think I do come off maybe as a know-it-all, but definitely not arrogant. I could work on "soft skills" but everyone tells me that and doesn't really tell me what I need to say about being "collaborative." And honestly, before this year, I always thought it was about giving your best effort and showcasing your skills. Obviously, it's not all that, but I find it hard talking about collaboration, not because I haven't done it, just because I don't know what a logical answer for it would be. This was one of things schools told me, saying that they felt teachers on the team would prefer to work with someone that better fits their personalities. What does "better fitting their educational style" mean? That's the tough part, because I can answer it from my perspective but stepping in the shoes of another isn't as easy on the spot and I haven't personally seen where collaboration actually works besides borrowing assignments, etc. It is one area I could improve.

I do feel that you are kind of saying that I'm being arrogant (maybe I'm misunderstanding that), but believe me, I am far from it. However, I was under the impression people wanted to see my skills. For the most part they do, but also want to see the "collaboration" piece. I know I've done the interviewing well, I've practiced, met with others, wrote down questions, etc. I don't come off as confident as you're making it out to be, but I don't answer to collaboration as well as I should because I hadn't thought that as a major point until this year when I interviewed, and it's rarely prepped for. Apparently schools admire collaboration more than I thought. What do you consider "soft skills?"

But as you can tell, I am very bitter and angry. I've had some schools that I've felt were blatantly disrespectful in the way they approached interviews and got back to me. Some were great, and gave great feedback, but there were a few that really rubbed me the wrong way (inadvertently, but still somewhat disrespectful).

I do appreciate this feedback, it is helpful. I don't want to come across as arrogant, because believe me, I'm far from it. As I mentioned, I'm only saying all the details here so I can get direct feedback and let people know where I stand. I tend to get a bit more arrogant and bitter as a result of going through the process, but I don't show that in interviews (clearly I have thought so when failures continue to build up).

As much as relocating sounds great and I may do that, I don't like the idea of just running away at the moment to avoid failure here- I may do so, but I'm usually one to do my best and try to make it work out. Try all my options. I won't be taking another long-term sub job after this, believe me. I've been close, real close at least three times, with an offer in hand that just wasn't affordable. If this long-term job doesn't amount to something, my options may be relocating, teaching abroad, or finding a new career.
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Old 09-08-2020, 08:51 AM
 
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Like the previous poster mentioned- try going to individual district's websites as well - sometimes these are the most up-to-date
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:18 PM
 
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Will do, thank you. As it is right now I'm sticking with my long-term position, though I'm looking forward toward the future.
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Old 09-08-2020, 02:45 PM
 
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.As much as relocating sounds great and I may do that, I don't like the idea of just running away at the moment to avoid failure here-
I wouldn't look at relocating as running away and being a failure. I would look at it as running towards opportunity to do what your passion is!

If you are serious about not doing another long term then I'd start the process to relocate.

As for your license, many states offer reciprocity with others allowing you to just apply and get your certification for new state.
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Old 09-08-2020, 04:06 PM
 
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I've been watching this thread with interest. First of all, it sounds like you have really put your heart and soul into your work, and I can feel the pain of not getting a job from your posts. How incredibly frustrating!

From your posts, I do imagine that you might come off as arrogant in person. That may not reflect your true self in terms of how you feel about yourself, but I'm guessing that the interviewers are getting the sense that you feel you know everything already. There is a fine line between confident and arrogant, and you may feel you are exuding confidence but others interpret it as arrogance. You are very accomplished and confident, which is great in many settings. In a setting that depends so much on interpersonal, daily connections, no one is looking for a lone (albeit very capable) wolf. This leaves them very little room to grow with you as part of their team. People want to work with others who are approachable, who are ready to take and give (tactful) feedback, who listen and support.

The fact that "everyone" tells you to work on your soft skills says something important about how others are perceiving you in interviews. Obviously, your skillset and experience has netted you many interviews. there is no doubt about your qualifications. But something is happening when you interview that may turn people off. I'm guessing the interpersonal skills are it. You just get that one shot at an interview to show others who you are. Do you have friends who have those soft skills who may be willing to do a mock interview with you to point out phrases or nonverbals you may be using that give the wrong impression?

As far as your question about collaboration, talk to friends who do collaborate well to get some sense of how they talk about collaboration. Collaborating is about listening and sharing. Not telling others what to do or ignoring the ideas of others, which can sometimes happen when people feel they have the right answers already. Since you haven't prepared for that question, really think about it. Collaborating is coming up with a joint product with someone else. How could you do that? How have you done that? As schools have moved far from the silos of one-room schoolhouses or completely self-contained classes that run on their own timeline, collaboration is the name of the game.

I also agree with teachnkids, completely-
Quote:
I wouldn't look at relocating as running away and being a failure. I would look at it as running towards opportunity to do what your passion is!
There is no shame in relocating for a job. People do it in all sorts of different fields.

Good luck!
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:26 AM
 
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I appreciate the feedback but I still disagree with the arrogance part. It's hard for someone just to pick that up from what I type here, but what I posted here is NOT how I approach interviews. I am arrogant on the outside because I know what I accomplished, but in an interview, I am far from it and even have worked my way to build confidence (it took me awhile to get more confident in my approach). I do not speak here as I speak at an interview, I speak here with arrogance and bitterness because of my situation. In an interview, I don't do that. I do mention my best qualities, but I always reach out to the school and let them know I'm looking for assistance (guidance for behavior, other teachers who have more experience).

I will agree, however, that I can work on collaboration, but I have never been shown how to effectively collaborate (to be honest). I've worked much as a lone wolf, and the "soft skills" argument doesn't fit entirely (by the way, it was 2 or 3 schools out of 17, most didn't even bother to give feedback, even when I asked). It's more that schools pick up from one interview that they assume I don't work with others. There's no indication for this other than the fact I present myself and what I've accomplished, not what I've done with other teachers. I've never talked about ignoring others and have always mentioned I'd be willing to work with the team, observe other teachers, and consequently come up with a rubric together. I've answered these questions, maybe not 100% fluidly, but I haven't necessarily made myself a "lone wolf."

Relocating isn't an easy thing to do. I'm open to it but I still live at home and have some family issues all around. What I mean by "running away from issues" is that I don't see "relocating" as an answer for every person. There should be other options than just up and leaving the place you've lived in all your life. I may not have a choice, but it angers me to see others who are less qualified and less hardworking to succeed in the place you've grown up in and lived in.

You think that's arrogance? I often feel pathetic because of my failures, but behind the scenes I get arrogant just to tell myself that I'm capable and in a tough situation out of my control.

I am far from an arrogant person, far from it, I only carry my bitterness and frustrations here. During interviews I've often stopped and asked for clarification on questions and have developed a more confident verbiage from the beginning. Consequently, schools have been arrogant to me. Some wanted to skip questions on me or they're quick to shoot down the ideas when I give examples from my experience. Being a new teacher, I only have so much experience, so it's not like I can answer and "lie" on certain questions.

There's also been interviews where I've been told they appreciated my honesty simply because I know I didn't answer the questions correctly, and did my best, but they don't go further (that's not being a know-it-all). I've had both sides of it. After 17 interviews, I've learned that I can't change my approach any differently, I just can't. Every school wants something different and I can't please them all. I felt like I've done the best I can and can't do better. That's why it's demoralizing and that's why I feel arrogant about being demoralized. I think some of it has to do with a difference in opinion rather than arrogance, but I feel schools hold this against me because of one interview without seeing my full potential.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:47 AM
 
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By the way, I had a whole position in a math department where I collaborated with other teachers to effectively bring interdisciplinary learning to students. The whole program was collaborative and I've spoken to this at interviews.

You'd think when that school had an English position open they'd call me, but no. I applied three times, twice for a full-time position, then once as a full-year sub. They only called me back to be a 2-month long-term sub to which I declined.

After all the work I put in and recognition I get, they don't appreciate it. And they had no reason not to offer me an interview because I did a great job with that school.

It seems like there aren't appropriate avenues and I want to know why without feeling like a pathetic loser who went through school to learn how to teach, only to be defeated and used.

Additionally, I got wonderful recommendation letters from teachers I worked with and have collaborated with Special Education departments to deliver instruction. No one has had any issues yet people oversee this.

Yet, I hear some people tell me they get hired for having a great resume template- I had my resume professionally looked at and don't have a job.

Again, I don't bring up these things in interviews- they're simply side notes but they're worth mentioning when considering what is working and where I'm not going.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:34 AM
 
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Can you ask someone for constructive feedback? And honestly? Sometimes it takes a lot of interviews to get a position. You donít know what theyíre looking for in a new employee and you donít know who else theyíre interviewing. I found out the hard way that some interviews I went on were essentially formalities and they basically already knew who they were hiring. Spoiler alert it wasnít me. Sometimes decisions donít make sense. I interviewed for a position along with a ďfriendĒ (donít get me started). We had similar years of experience but mine was more directly related to the position. She got offered the position. I was like WTH??? It ended up well because I got offered a position at a better school and Iím happier than Iíd have been if Iíd been offered the original position.
As a side note, Iím not sure if youíre looking to vent or for advice. Looking for jobs sucks and Iíd be glad to commiserate if youíd like that. But weíre giving advice and you seem to come up with reasons why the advice wouldnít work or isnít accurate for you. Itís not meant to be a personal attack. Have you asked for feedback from other teachers youíve worked with in the past?
Best of luck.
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I would highly
Old 09-11-2020, 07:13 AM
 
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suggest that you reread Grace Krispy's post with an open mind. You have spent a lot of energy defending yourself. The feedback you received about your "soft skills" is very telling. In my past experience, I would rather work with a "less qualified" (your words) teacher than someone who comes across as your feedback has indicated. Something is off putting in your interviews. A fresh start in a new place might be just the thing to get you to where you want to be.
I wish you the best of luck
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Yep. Yep.
Old 09-11-2020, 07:41 AM
 
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I liken it to "being coachable..."

Most coaches would rather have a good player who is coachable than a great player with an attitude. You may feel that you are doing a good job disguising it but some people are very perceptive to undertones and you may be accidentally exposing your bitterness and contempt for the process during your interviews.

If you watch or listen to others in your area, many, many people in the New England states have waited and interviewed for YEARS prior to getting a full time teacher position. Many have taken para jobs or the less desirable long term sub jobs before getting a full time position. You see it as protecting yourself and waiting for the right placement, some schools view it as "paying your dues and taking your lumps."

Your reaction to the advice given here on PT is very telling. Even the advice to consider relocation--it is not about failing or fleeing or anything like that! It is about being realistic about the Job Market. In the New England states, applicants can be in the upper hundreds or more per position. In the middle coastal states, that number drops to just 40ish or so for each. Simple math shows that the odds are just better in other areas. (Here in the midwest, we are lucky to get 5-10 qualified applicants for our open positions.)

You seem to divert, deflect, defend, and make excuses rather than look to yourself with any sort of truthful introspection. I know, I know, I know what you are going to say to that as you have said it to EVERY other person who pointed it out. (Which means to me that you aren't listening and immediately defensive.)

Good luck to you.
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I can remember
Old 09-11-2020, 08:01 AM
 
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a professor in graduate school (Dr. Nancy Rambusch - who brought Montessori education to the U.S.) describing Boston as the place where "even the crossing guard has a master's degree."

Lottalove is right:
Quote:
In the New England states, applicants can be in the upper hundreds or more per position.
It was always like that in New York state, north of the city.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:10 PM
 
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I'll chime in again and say your sra is hard to get a teaching job. Saturated! Has been since 1975. Nothing you can do. For whatever reason you ate not getting hired. I'll go out on a limb and say it's your interview skills, or the perception the committee gets from you. You clearly have credentials. You've told us over and over here and your resume reflects that.

I lived in NY State. In 1975, maybe 76, my guidance counselor, family, friends, teachers, etc. tried to talk me out of being a teacher. Market was flooded. Nope! I had wanted to be a teacher since 3rd grade. Off I went. Had a great college experience. Graduated and applied up and down east coast and even in Texas. Our family friend was the superintendent of my home district. He couldn't get me a job because THERE WERE NONE. Got married and moved to southern NJ. No better there! Changed careers for 6vhrssrs and worked in a different industry. Finally decided I needed back into teaching. Worked in a daycare center and then s private school. Pay was pitiful, but I was happy. Moved to NC in 1999 and I've always had a pick of jobs here. I'm good at what I do and my name is out there.

All that to say....northeast sucks for most teacher applicants. 17 interviews is a lot. Home up on interview skills and set a timeline for how long you're going to give it. Subbing can be a way in, as can long-term sub jobs. You don't seem to like those options. Some of us have to pay our dues longer to get what we want. That included me!
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:20 PM
 
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I'm listening, I really am. I'm defensive, I get that too, but why shouldn't I be? I also think in some ways people are truly judging me and being harsh when all they have to assess me on is what I post here, not me as a person or teacher. You can tell I'm bitter and angry and venting, but that's only part of me. Not the whole picture. The main reason for this thread is "why me?" when I see others get in and not me and what's wrong with me. Hear me out.

1. I can't fully accept that I don't have good interview skills. I was offered two jobs and was top 3 in another. Yes, a small percentage, but still had offers. One, I had the job and was laid off, the other I would have had to relocate in a more expensive area for less money. I was also told by many others (whether true or not), that I had good (not great but good) interviewing skills but someone fit better. Something tells me something else is as stake and I think it's more than just one factor. I'm not a perfect interviewer by any means, and many I likely did not do well, but I'm certain I did well enough in others and did not get the job. I even get vibes at some interviews when I'm there that it just doesn't fit... again, I ask why? Why am I set off from the start?

2. I'm not ruling out relocating but I'm someone who needs an answer to "why." I don't like giving up that fact and I've always been told to keep trying. I want to know what the solution is to get hired where I am. That is what I'm seeking and I don't have a clear path when schools give me different vibes. Relocating is the last option for me. Still an option, but I'd like to explore staying where I am and getting a job. Otherwise I can't explain how others around me get jobs when I don't.

3. I did take a long-term sub job and have am working it now. If I took a building sub job, however, I doubt I would have gotten very far. A long-term job I accepted, because I like the school and it gives me experience in my field. I don't like the option but I accepted it because it was the choice I had. I'm willing to pay a longer due to get what I want but have been mislead by schools already (I've paid time in some who don't want me as a full-time teacher and jobs I've applied to who didn't accept me want me to take lesser jobs in place). So I'm not accepting that "paying dues" always works. I agree that some schools will accept you from a lower position, though it's obvious others want to "use" your talents to fill a need for their school rather than harness your skills.

4. Even if you feel the expectations are unrealistic, professionals and people tell me I should get a full-time job no problem. Students who have gone to my college have landed jobs. I seem to be the odd one out despite people telling me I'm capable. Others make it sound like it's easy and I put more time and effort into interviewing and come up empty.

In a nutshell, I hear what you say but I also feel you don't really know me and are judging by what I said here (and maybe that's how interviewers feel, I get it). But the point is that there's no right or wrong answer. I seemed to have done well for some schools and not so well for others, but I also feel I'm also amidst bad luck. I don't think its all me personally. I think it also has to do with budgets and certain school climates that they consider I don't fit in no matter the interview. But it all feels personal and VERY, VERY much ambiguous. That doesn't sit well with someone like me who just wants an answer.

And just so you know, I'm working a long-term position now and have accepted it in hopes it will lead to more. If not, I have plan B in mind without deserting plan A.

It's easier for you to talk when you have a job. Put yourself in my shoes. Someone who has been told they're doing right and getting different vibes from schools and not getting a job or a solution. It's the worst feeling in the world when I put in effort to do my best and get not so far. I'm willing to take a step down to go up, but it's hard to know whether it's an open door to the next level or a revolving door. There's no way I can change my interviewing skills because what it does well for one school hurts another. There's no defined answer.

Last edited by hebronharvest; 09-11-2020 at 07:39 PM..
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Just musing...
Old 09-12-2020, 06:04 AM
 
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Where I live, the four degrees are huge issue. I live in a district that gets 300 applications for one kindergarten opening. They would hire new over you because its just so much less money. Unless you taught a high demand area (ESL, Maths, Physics, Chemistry). My kid's science teacher has a doctorate in Chemistry, BUT also is taking over all the upper level science courses. And the bigger deal, coaching the swim team (was a big deal competitive swimmer in his day and also coaches). The cynic in me says swimming sealed the deal lol. Only thing better is being a winning football coach. Point being, multiple degrees are not necessarily a deal breaker, especially if you can coach or in area that they really value. Drama, music, studio arts. It's more what else are you bring to the party? The high school orchestra teacher has a doctorate, went to big deal music schools for all his education from high school and up. He had a monster friendship base to draw from. He brings in his "friends" to guest conduct. He knows people in the business. The only job more secure is the state winning football coach. (TL;DR multiple degrees may not be a deal breaker, it's what other goodies can you bring with those degrees.)

About the YouTube channel. People have pretty strong reactions about YouTube content creators. Itzhak Perlman could have a YouTube channel. No one would bat an eye. Lindsey Stirling has one, and the yay or nay buzz around like flying monkeys. Both are violinists. I enjoy their music, me being the great unwashed. People in music have strong opinions. Unless a question comes is asked "Are you familiar with tech/social media?", I don't know if I would bring it up. Many people lump YouTube in with TikTok and Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. You aren't Paul Logan or PewDiePie, but who knows how that information is turning people off. My main gig is handling social media accounts for business, beside teaching part time. I get less crap saying part time teaching, than social media wrangling. (TL;DR not everyone "gets" your YouTube channel, even if it's educational.)

Interviewing for teaching is like going into an audition for an acting part. You have to be competent in your job, but all this other stuff is factored into the mix. How well will you blend into the cast? Are they looking for early 20s and new teacher smell? A new graduate who is just starting out will put up with more BS, than a 40 year old adult who has been rounded out by life. Is it a numbers game? Yeah, she's got four degrees, but she knows people in the screen writing business, or BFF with Steven King. 4 degrees with no bonus round will be a hard sell to the district office. Maybe the principal has a "strong team", and is looking for a go with the flow person for the last bit. The principal is done with drama. Or the principal has a dumpster fire of a grade and needs someone who won't crumble under insane parents and equally insane kids. Or all the other teachers have "something extra". That was my daughter's elementary school. No one just taught. Active in community service, church, coached... I don't know when those people rested. I teach, go home and collapse isn't getting hired there. You have to be able to really read the interviewers on the fly. There is the always popular, we have an internal hire, and we are require to interview four people. UGH! But you never know, I've seen people still score jobs because the interviewers remembered them.

My two pennies, if you were me, is drop listing those first two degrees and see what happens. You've got nothing to lose. The English/Creative writing is bring nothing to the party. You aren't a nationally known author. You don't have a job in the business. Extra degrees matter in a public school hire. You might be pricing yourself out for no good reason. Private schools don't usually care, but the pay can be so much less.

YouTube gets mentioned on a need to know basis. Too many unknowns on how it could be turning interviewers off.

I'm assuming by your writing style, you are an assertive, no fuzzy gray type person. That is a blessing and a curse. Blessing because you can see the nonsense, curse because you may not see all the subtleties. Those subtleties can make or break getting the job. Not everyone wants a Steve Jobs. Sometimes a low key Bill Gates is more their style. I'm a pretty intense person, but I teach art. I seem to get a little more leeway on the out there scale. I'm not channeling Oscar Wilde if the room definitely doesn't want that.

CT sounds like Michigan. If you didn't go to school the district you are applying for, don't have a relative working in the district, or are a known quantity, it's like winning the lotto getting a gig in the public schools. Too many universities pumping out too many newly hatched teachers. Public schools (in the better paying districts) seem to hire young and cheap. If there is no young and cheap, you better bring more to the party than just a masters degree to justify the extra money.

One last thing, overseas teaching sounds great, but it can be a young person's game too. The choicer, better paying schools want just out of university. My BIL was a JET for 5 years. You can get a job at 30 and up, but it will be harder, and really, really, REALLY read that contract. My friend was let go from his English teaching job at a private Japanese school last month. He taught for 10 years. No reason, but he found out the school hired a 20 something to take his place. He's a foreign national, so it's sucks to be you. I'm not saying don't do it, but go with your eyes wide open.

I don't know your reasons for not moving, but I'd be looking anywhere to get two years of in the room teaching experience if I really needed a public school teaching job. The school district, where I live, seems to hire people who went to school here OR didn't work in the immediate area at all for two years. They worked in the upper peninsula of Michigan, or Wyoming or Utah. I don't know the reasons why, but all the districts seem to do that here.

Good luck. It's no fun hustling while broke.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:47 AM
 
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I like the above poster (Tawaki, and a few others), although I'm more assertive in writing than in personality (I'm far from it in person).

I will say, very few of you have actually shown empathy toward my situation, yet the above poster approached it the right way (and a few others). Many are calling me arrogant but you're pretty arrogant in telling me there is no path to success. That's not what I've heard from others in person, who are at least hopeful and provide solutions. Ever thought the schools aren't necessarily being fair either? Yet, all the statements come back to me and yes, I feel like you're personally telling me I have a bad character, which is far from the truth. And good luck doesn't mean much if all you say is that but provide other reasons why I've done wrong, rather than right. How about look at what I've accomplished and what the schools want, because I've heard of people having the worst interviews and still landing jobs.

I think it makes sense to take out my degree and try to shop around here before relocating (only a couple said that). But again, people just come after me and blame me for getting degrees and fail to tell me a solution.

You might say I'm repetitive but everyone else is repetitive in making it sound like it's all my fault. Do I want to be the one without a job? Have I worked like this to not have a job? Whether or not I have done everything right, I've worked admirably and been a hard worker and have not had results. You can't blame me for trying. I've even taken lower jobs to work myself up.

I know no one can answer this, but why others and not me? They're not much different. I happen to be a very agreeable and amiable person, but that means nothing apparently. Yet others seem to be just fine when they're not better/worse than me. It's frustrating. And yes, it has more to do with who you know rather than interviewing skills and education, but still people are calling me out on my interviewing skills. They're not looking at the schools hiring perspective.

Am I taking it personally? Yes, this is my life and my situation. There's no reason to be harsh to me- honestly, why? Can't you see I'm dealing with enough here? I tend to think it has more to do not about me, but situations. And few have given me "situational advice."

And no, I'm not the only change in the situation in this area... there's a lot of factors at stake that I have no control over.

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Old 09-12-2020, 08:11 AM
 
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You don't want anyone to wish you good luck? Ok. Fine. I'll just say in my world that's arrogant and I've got lots of worldly experience on you. I could be your mom.

I offered lots of advice and didn't get snarky until the last post I deleted. Last poster responded basically the same info as others just worded differently.

You complain about responders repeating advice. You offered no other info except to say that you have so many degrees, you're awesome, and you just don't get why you're not hired.

I'd wish you luck but you don't want it.
But to each his own!

Last edited by teachnkids; 09-12-2020 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:14 PM
 
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Look, I'm not trying to upset anyone. In fact, I'm leaving after this post. I have a long term sub job and am happy for the moment, but I will say this: from the start, you assumed I've been doing wrong. I haven't been perfect, but I know I've been doing much better at interviews. I don't want someone to tell I'm doing everything wrong, I want solutions. That's what feedback is.

The above poster came across with a much more friendly and less inferior tone. No offense, but he didn't criticize me harshly. I'm looking for solutions. people have told me I'm in the right direction. Worded differently, maybe, but tone is all the difference.

I never once said I'm awesome. I can have all the degrees I want and not get anywhere. I know people who have no degrees and have better jobs than I do. I offered to get rid of one of my degrees and take a pay cut. I don't walk around and tell people I have four degrees. In fact, I work two jobs, a minimum wage job and a substitute position. I have the worst insurance in the state but i work my ass off for a living. You'd think people pick up on actions more than words, but they don't. Anyway, my job status is nothing to be proud about. The only thing I can brag about is not having college loans.

People say teachers don't get paid enough but I've only had a teacher salary for 5 months and I felt like it was much more than I've ever had when I got it and I'd embrace it. I have never since made that amount before and would take it any day against the minimum wage job I have now.

And I'll say one more thing. To just assume I don't fit in here and to think it's me and that I should move away... you don't know my family life. I like the suggestion about moving away but I'm not sure moving away would satisfy my life and my family. It's a huge commitment and not everyone could survive off it.

I will take a "good luck" any day, but I don't feel yours was sincere, no offense. I feel as if you're criticizing everything I've done. I'm not looking for that, and I'm not looking for praise either. But I am looking to see why people who get a degree in a field can't land a job even after hard work. Yes, I'm bitter. Bitter is a better word than arrogant, but I've always had the short end of the stick in life, and even before I got into teaching I couldn't find a job.

Honestly, all this college is nothing to brag about, it's gotten me nowhere. I feel more pathetic than I do arrogant. The only reason I mention degrees is to tell what I've accomplished and where I'm at. From the start I mentioned cutting one out and playing the game to be someone who's less. I don't find that arrogant and I have nothing to brag about because I've made it nowhere.

And with that, I'm out. I'm sorry if I upset you. you seem like a great teacher and person but I don't believe the way you came across was in any way beneficial to me. You make it sound like I haven't done anything to try my best to fix the situation. And honestly, you want me to get better at interviews, but I've sat through 17 this year and realized they are all a paradox- each one is different, and in the end, schools hire who they want and that's it. There's little to no way to improve. You can have a bad interview and still get a job (as others have said). It's not all in the interview.

I want to know why there's so much favoritism and I'm easily overlooked. I know that's not easily answered and why I resulted in venting, but that's my two cents.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:21 PM
 
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See that's where you're wrong. Not criticizing. Offered suggestions and genuinely said good luck. Your interpretation was wrong and so you get to decide I was bad.

Peace out. Believe it or not, I wish you the best of luck sincerely. Trust me I won't be making anymore suggestions to you. I too don't need negativity in my life!
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:44 PM
 
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Maybe you think my interpretation was wrong, but I feel you thought the same about me when you called me arrogant, simply for laying out my credentials. I have once and again said that I would take them back for a job and that they've gotten me nowhere. Bitter, yes. Arrogant, not so much. They are different. And laying out all the info here is not the same as what I'd say at an interview, as I acknowledged. I feel you don't have empathy for the situation and just point at me as the target (a lot of it is out of my control).

Call me wrong, but I do feel you've been critical. You even said harsh yourself. You neglected to ask me what any of my better qualities were and why those were undermined (such as working hard in action) and instead you assume I've done all wrong. Even teachers who interview and get jobs aren't perfect, but they still get them. That's my point. You can't chase perfection, but doing the best I can, why isn't it good enough?

You also made assumptions- you assumed I wouldn't take the lower job when in fact I did.

Furthermore, you claim I say "I'm awesome," but I never claimed that. I mention my education because it is the only basis I can stand on. I don't have much experience besides outside work (which is also hard to come by any job in CT that pays more than minimum). I am proud of what I accomplished, that is true, but it is vastly undermined by not having anything to enjoy it with.

I may be at fault with some of this, but as I said earlier (I'm not perfect/awesome/great or whatever), I don't think it's me. People are telling me I'm doing things right and I do a good job, but then when it comes to actually getting hired long-term that never happens. Again, I say, a lot of it is a paradox- I can do the best I can in any situation but it doesn't matter as someone else is always chosen.

I did take your suggestion- I actually had a chance to interview in North Carolina but I declined because I'm not ready to leave me family at the moment and I settled into a long-term position. So to say I didn't follow your word is inaccurate. I may not have followed everything, but I did look outside of the box. I just don't see it feasible right now and want to work where I am. Another suggestion you proposed was to take a long-term job. I too did that, so it's not like I didn't ignore you- I just feel the suggestions are only another way to go through a revolving door. No matter how well I get at interviewing, it does not guarantee success. I've seen this over 20 times already and am so tired from interviewing it almost isn't worth it anymore.

Anyway, thank you. I will say that if you truly meant it. Thank you and good day. I think testing the market later on might be beneficial for me though who knows. All I can do is my best and hope (even though hope feels shattered) it leads to the best outcome.
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Old 09-12-2020, 08:41 PM
 
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It sounds like you live in a competitive area. In those types of areas, it may be important who you know. The people getting chosen over you may not even be the most qualified, but have connections in the district and know the right people.

If you have a lot of degrees but no or very little teaching experience, you may be considered too expensive as well.

I think people are recommending you consider relocation because other areas of the country have a greater need for teachers and you may have a better chance of getting a job. Many people relocate to get opportunities they are not able to get in their own area. I understand not wanting to relocate though. You have to decide if it is worth it to stay and work at lesser jobs and attempt to work your way up.

I think the competitiveness of your area, lack of connections, and possibly having an imbalance of education and experience are probably what is keeping you from getting hired.
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:12 PM
 
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Well, I'm the first to tell you that I feel like a pathetic loser, no matter what education I have. For all those who think I'm being too cocky, well there you go. I have a few things keeping me from relocating (though I could), which means I'm still that 30 year old living in his parent's basement because his life is a pathetic nightmare. I've heard the "keep the faiths" but have disregarded them as of late because they mean nothing. I'm sure someone will come here and say I need an attitude change, well fine, it's probably true, but this is where I've gotten with hard work.

Meanwhile, it's cooled down but originally teachers were complaining about their jobs with covid. You know, teachers who have tenure, a union, benefits... I would take a regular teacher's pay to work that job (not counting any degrees I have) and be happy with it. I have never had a steady teacher's pay in my life consistently. Every other job I've had has been 20 and hour or less. Yes, I'm sure I'll get flak for this, but it's how I feel.

I'm currently in a long-term sub job and I'm working my ass off. If this doesn't get me anywhere, I've signed up to take courses to get ESL / TEFL trained and possibly teach abroad but it's not my first choice. I see no reason why I should have to relocate. I have some family here that doesn't make sense to leave, but honestly, I'd rather teach abroad and do something new then take an every day teaching job that I'm forced to relocate to.
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Old 10-26-2020, 01:14 PM
 
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I have about twenty years in teaching full time. I quit that job because the conditions were terrible. I subbed for the last two years while trying to get another full time teaching job. Covid 19 has changed subbing so much,I just don't want to do it anymore. Too many rules , online programs, precautions, and mask mandates for me. I'm looking for other ways to make money. Keep putting in those teaching applications while looking into other fields as well.
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:49 PM
 
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Problem is it's hard to find a job anywhere, no matter how educated. I have looked elsewhere as I have backgrounds in video and writing. Nothing.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:05 AM
 
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I am sorry you're having such a difficult time finding a position. A couple of things stood out to me. One, you don't want to relocate but you're willing to move overseas for a job? How is that any different than moving to another state for a year or so? Unless you want the life adventure, experience. I'd rather move to NC than overseas but that's just me.

The second was, when you get an interview, practice prior to, letting them know how you can benefit the school--not just all you've accomplished. I'm sure you've collaborated in your other positions. Most jobs now aren't just working by yourself. Really think back to what you've done as part of a team with others and mention it. You can offer the school your writing English/Creative writing skills--let them know you'd be willing to take on an extra class/after school/before school club--or even start one. How about using your ability to create YouTube videos? How could that be used to benefit the school? An after school club collaborating with other clubs to showcase what they're doing? Can you film anything for the drama department and get that out for them? Really think outside the box of what you can bring to the table to help them. "I'm willing to...." can be magic words.

I know jobs are not easy to find especially in this environment but my school just hired someone due to over enrollment in a grade, so it does happen at unusual times throughout the year. Some may be hiring because teachers may be fed up with teaching virtually and decide to leave or retire.

And you may be have to keep taking long term assignments one after the other for a while, unfortunately and since you're not in it for the money, you can still make an impact doing that.

Best of luck to you!
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:24 AM
 
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Going abroad would be better for me because I wouldn't specifically be tied to a location permanently. I know this sounds weird, but if I moved out of state I wouldn't feel the same way. My life is here and I'm not sure how I feel like just uprooting myself for good forever... going abroad I'm tied into contracts and such and I feel it may be worth more at this point to try something different. I also don't want to get a job in another state and then get laid off as has happened already.

I have a whole youtube channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...gNZCJQd_DnOq0g

This showcases a lot of things I've done in class and still I've not gotten far, despite teachers and students appreciating all I've done on here. I put so much time and passion into these videos and to not have a permanent job is absolutely stupid when I've gone above and beyond.

I don't mind long-term jobs but there comes a time when a single guy needs to get insurance (I'm on the lowest state insurance right now) and move away from living in his parent's house. I don't have the capabilities to do that in my current situation. I'm also not getting younger.
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