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Sandy Hook Families Approved to Sue Remington
Old 11-17-2019, 01:50 PM
 
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/busin...urt/index.html

Did you guys hear about this? All of these families will be fighting to sue all the gunmakers for ALL these shootings that were done.


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Old 11-17-2019, 01:54 PM
 
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Hah. Hope they go bankrupt.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:28 PM
 
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I'm happy for those families.
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Fabulous
Old 11-17-2019, 07:59 PM
 
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Hope they lose their shirts and more!!!
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:18 PM
 
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I hope they get justice,


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sorry, but i disagree
Old 11-17-2019, 10:14 PM
 
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Mental illness is the real problem.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:53 PM
 
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I hope a higher court overturns this decision. Mental illness is the real problem.
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Then we can sue
Old 11-18-2019, 03:28 AM
 
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All the car manufacturers and booze companies for drunken driver deaths. And the medical costs of alcoholism.

And then we can sue public schools for illiteracy.
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Yes, the NRA leadership is mentally ill.
Old 11-18-2019, 05:29 AM
 
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As are all the Senators and Representatives that they have bought and paid for. Their mental illness is based in the love of money. Toxic masculinity is also a form of mental illness. The rape culture is a form of mental illness. All if it plays into the situation that now exists. Our children (and TEACHERS) are not safe at school because white males who are products of toxic masculinity believe that killing people is a good solution to their angst. The NRA is their apologist and our government enables.

Funny how other developed countries that do not promote or allow gun sales do not seem to suffer from this "mental illness," white male shooter syndrome. Perhaps if mentally ill people cannot easily access guns, they would not be able to do mass shootings? Just a thought.

P.S. Now that I have posted, this thread will be moved to the Issues & Politics Board.

Last edited by Clarity; 11-18-2019 at 07:38 AM..
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The men (and women) in my family
Old 11-18-2019, 04:53 PM
 
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are not mentally ill because they choose to be responsible gun owners. They are hunters, they go to the shooting range and more importantly, they practice gun safety.

My husband and 3 sons (Yes, they are white males.) are responsible citizens and gun owners. They do not suffer from "toxic masculinity". I'm not going to get into name calling, but your post is offensive and judgmental.


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I said the NRA LEADERSHIP is mentally ill.
Old 11-19-2019, 04:22 AM
 
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Toxic masculinity is very much part of why people are hysterical about putting controls on people's ability to obtain weapons that can kill multiple other people in seconds. Oddly enough, they are usually white males.

A "gun owner" is not the same thing as an industry that promotes paranoia over access to weapons used exclusively for mass killings.

My boyfriend hunts beavers who disrupt his water flow on his property. He rents land to people who hunt deer, foxes, and turkeys. He is not a toxic male. He understands the difference between a rifle and an assault weapon.

I have venison hot dogs, venison pepperoni, and venison sausage in my freezer, not to mention moose meat and fresh beef and pork.

Similarities, identities, differences. In order to be sane, one must be able to differentiate between those three concepts.

Do you know what I find offensive? Children's bloody bodies scattered across a school yard and the people who choose to defend the system that put the gun in the mass shooter's hand.

Last edited by Clarity; 11-19-2019 at 06:17 AM..
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Our active shooter training
Old 11-19-2019, 09:02 AM
 
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informed us that less than 2% of all child murders happen at school. They informed us that guns are not the only weapon of active violence in a school. We were further informed that despite the rise in media hysteria, the actual rate of school related gun deaths has steadily declined in the past 25 years. In fact, I was surprised to hear that a child was more likely to die being hit by a car in a school parking lot than due to school violence.

I, too, am saddened and disturbed by the deaths of children, whenever, where ever, and however they occur. But what I find offensive is using those children's deaths for political gain.
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Well, whew! And here I thought it was a
Old 11-19-2019, 09:50 AM
 
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real problem.

Quote:
less than 2% of all child murders happen at school.
Glad to hear what level of child murders in schools are deemed minor and leave you feeling like it's not such a big deal after all.

Also, if a child is murdered by a gun, but was not school-related, we should just pretend those are not gun-related deaths of children?

It is astonishing how people can shield themselves from reality by finding statistics that minimize the problem.

I might be a weirdo, but I actually have NO acceptable gun kill rate for children in or outside of schools.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ng-report-2018

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/20/healt...ing/index.html
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Now you wouldn't be rudely
Old 11-19-2019, 10:07 AM
 
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implying that I find any sorts of child murder acceptable. I don't. I don't find strangulation murder of children acceptable, or head bashing murder of children acceptable, or knife-related murder of children acceptable. Which is why I concentrate on the persons responsible for murder and how to stop them, instead of concentrating on the weapons used.

As I'm sure you're really capable of understanding, the citing of statistics was certainly not done for the purpose of leaving anyone feeling "its not such a big deal." If that's your takeaway, shame on you.
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Then why post it?
Old 11-19-2019, 10:50 AM
 
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Reread your entire first paragraph

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informed us that less than 2% of all child murders happen at school. They informed us that guns are not the only weapon of active violence in a school. We were further informed that despite the rise in media hysteria, the actual rate of school related gun deaths has steadily declined in the past 25 years. In fact, I was surprised to hear that a child was more likely to die being hit by a car in a school parking lot than due to school violence.

and then tell me that was not meant to minimize the problem. It was a huge "look over there! Nothing to see here." Also, blaming the problem on "media hysteria" is beyond callous.

Also, I don't think anyone believes that those of us who seek to encourage our legislature to be proactive in controlling access to guns should be referred to as promoting hysteria. Unless one is in the Alex Jones camp (remember him, the guy who strives to prove that Sandy Hook never happened), I do not see how anyone can continue to promote the idea that guns are not at the heart of gun deaths.

Bottom line, if it's YOUR kid who gets killed in a school shooting or non-school shooting, I doubt you would then decide that the gun and access to guns had nothing to do with it. That argument is just so completely lame that I cannot believe anyone is still using it. Funny, in countries where gun access is limited, there are magnitudes fewer gun deaths.

I see you got the word "Rude" in your heading. Why am I not surprised? Same old, same old.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...t-of-the-world
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Rude?
Old 11-19-2019, 11:16 AM
 
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I call it as I see it.

Some people might call citing FACTS minimizing the problem. Not at all. But it does put the problem in perspective. Children should not be frightened of going to school, thinking that they're likely to be shot at any time, and if they are frightened, it's the hysteria of the adults they come in contact with that frightens them, whether it's over-hyping media, or adults who think the problem is lax gun control laws, and use children to frighten others into going along with a useless agenda.

That, along with trying to intimidate those who disagree into silence by claiming that they're heartless and unfeeling (and insane, of course) is the anti-gun way.
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Seriously, it's the adults that kids
Old 11-19-2019, 12:52 PM
 
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come in contact with that are making them frightened of going to school?

Are you certain it's not the lockdown drills, the armed police on campuses, seeing bloodied bodies on campus, missing fellow students and teachers who are now dead, their parents' giving them cell phones and instructing them to text if a shooter comes on campus? Are you suggesting that the media should stop reporting when school shootings happen? Wow, that could be an answer. Not sure who it would serve, but it's a great idea.

It is rather amazing, that you, as an educator, believe that parents should not talk to their children about staying safe when a shooter is on campus or that you think that is the problem - scared parents, teachers who do not wish to become sharpshooters, and/or basic reporting of the facts.

Thanks for a glimpse down that rabbit hole.
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How many children?
Old 11-19-2019, 01:42 PM
 
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What percentage of school-aged children have actually seen a bloodied body on campus? If there are kids who have seen such bodies, of course they're scared. If there's been a shooting on their campus, of course they're scared. But just how many students does that actually entail? What percentage of U.S. students?

If they have teachers who are reasonable and matter-of-fact about lock down drills, students are not scared. Just as they are not scared of fires merely because we have monthly fire drills.

We should not be teaching children to be afraid of armed police officers on campus, either. Why should they be?

Since I never said that I believe parents should not talk to their children about staying safe, I find it astonishing that you would accuse me of saying such a thing.

Nor do I have a problem with basic reporting of facts. You're the one that accused me of minimizing when reported FACTS. I'd love it if we could stick to the facts instead of exaggerating the FACTS and making up lies. (i.e. NRA people are insane, toxic masculinity, blah, blah, blah)
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California has some of the strictest gun laws
Old 11-19-2019, 04:35 PM
 
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in our country and yet there have been three mass shootings in California in four days. Gun laws and other restrictions are not going to solve the problem. Do you really believe that if guns were outlawed that all criminals would go turn in their guns at the police station? That would never happen.

It's a terribly complicated problem. I believe that mental illness, the breakdown of families, violent video games and movies all contribute to the problem. Access to guns does not cause one to become a mass shooter.

I wish it were an easy fix. But as Americans, we have the right to own guns.

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Old 11-20-2019, 07:54 AM
 
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I agree with frecklejuice. Mental illness and instability is definitely the root of all this. In addition to that, a lot more "regular/normal" people these days are mad, hepped up, sad, stressed, etc., which doesn't help matters. Those who don't care about consequences will resort to measures like this.
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Here we go!
Old 11-20-2019, 09:35 AM
 
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Quote:
What percentage of school-aged children have actually seen a bloodied body on campus? If there are kids who have seen such bodies, of course they're scared. If there's been a shooting on their campus, of course they're scared. But just how many students does that actually entail? What percentage of U.S. students?
We have now moved from the sublime to the ridiculous. What percentage of U.S. students have seen a bloodied body on campus is the determinent as to whether students nationwide should or should not be manifesting anxiety about the possibility of a school shooting? Because only a teeny-tiny percentage of students have access to the Internet via cell phones, computers, TV, right? If those hysterical adults never said a word to school age children, I'm sure those children would have NEVER found out about school shootings?

Are you saying that the answer is to withhold information about school shootings from those who have not had the experience first-hand? Love to see your plan for that.

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We should not be teaching children to be afraid of armed police officers on campus, either. Why should they be?
Apparently, you have not seen the many, many videos of resource officers overstepping their bounds and beating children in classrooms. It is documented that resource officers have a bad habit of inserting themselves into what would otherwise be normal discipline issues, escalating beyond all reason.

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If they have teachers who are reasonable and matter-of-fact about lock down drills, students are not scared. Just as they are not scared of fires merely because we have monthly fire drills.
Please share a video modeling a teacher who is able to be "reasonable and matter-of-fact" about the fact that we are practicing these drills just in case someone decides to come on campus and start shooting.

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Since I never said that I believe parents should not talk to their children about staying safe, I find it astonishing that you would accuse me of saying such a thing.
Oh, but you did:
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it's the hysteria of the adults they come in contact with that frightens them, whether it's over-hyping media, or adults who think the problem is lax gun control laws, and use children to frighten others into going along with a useless agenda.
Or are parents not considered to be among the "adults they come in contact with." How exactly does a parent communicate these very real dangers to children without fitting your moniker of "hysterical adults." So, yes, you said that.

The problem IS lax gun control laws. Does that mean I think my sweetie should not be able to shoot beavers on his property or rent his land out to hunters. Not at all? Most of them do not use assault rifles. Gun owners who believe the alt-right hysteria that the big bad liberals are coming for your guns are the problem.

Apparently, there is a correlation between NOT having access to guns and NOT having these continuous mass shootings. I'm sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with gun-control, though. Must be the water is different in those other countries.
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Mental illness
Old 11-20-2019, 11:33 AM
 
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is one of the causes of this. However, the number of women who have mental illness is at the same level or a little higher, yet they are not out there shooting people.
When we find one characteristic most of the mass shooters have and put the blame on that one thing we will never solve this.
Mental illness is one factor, yet not all the shooters were mentally ill.
Childhood trauma is one factor.
Being male is a factor.
Having been indoctrinated into a "them" and "us" world view is a factor.
Having access to a weapon, usually but not always an assault rifle is a factor.
Plus several other factors I am not going to bother writing.

It is not helpful to pick only one factor and then ignore all the others.
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:07 PM
 
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I'm not trying to oversimplify the problem or say that it's only cause is mental illness.

As I stated before, it's a terribly complicated problem.

When a person wants to harm, injure, or kill someone, he will find a way to do it. Knives are frequently used in countries with strict gun laws. There are instances of people driving cars into crowds and killing and injuring many people.

I just can't believe that a normal, rational, mentally healthy person could commit such acts.
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:54 PM
 
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If mental illness was the cause of these shootings,then why make the access to guns so easy for everyone including these mentally ill people? Why the opposition to the red flag laws and universal background checks? Where is the mental illness assistance for our mentally ill population? Don't dismiss gun restriction laws so easily if you really want to solve the gun problem in our country.

Last edited by anna; 11-20-2019 at 06:51 PM..
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Suing
Old 11-20-2019, 07:21 PM
 
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Personally, I think they should be suing the government for weak-ass gun laws. It doesn't make that much sense to me to sue the manufacturers.

Either way, I hope the outcome brings some measure of peace to these families

Quote:
If mental illness was the cause of these shootings,then why make the access to guns so easy for everyone including these mentally ill people? Why the opposition to the red flag laws and universal background checks? Where is the mental illness assistance for our mentally ill population? Don't dismiss gun restriction laws so easily if you really want to solve the gun problem in our country.
Yes! ^^^^^^

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When a person wants to harm, injure, or kill someone, he will find a way to do it. Knives are frequently used in countries with strict gun laws.
Which is the lesser of two evils, because a single knife can't kill masses of people like a single gun can.
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:25 AM
 
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I NEVER said I was opposed to background checks (which are already in place). I just don't believe it's only a "gun problem" as you stated.

I'm completely in favor of more assistance for those who suffer from mental illness. I personally believe that health insurance should offer more extensive coverage for treatment.

Yes, you're right that a knife can't kill as many people as a gun, but driving a car onto a crowded sidewalk sure can. When a person is intent on causing harm, he/she will find a way.

I think that as teachers, many of us could help identify children who seem to be in need of mental health treatment at a young age. We've all seen the signs but it is so difficult to get the needed help.
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If you have often have children scared
Old 11-21-2019, 03:53 PM
 
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to death when you conduct a lock down drill, then you're doing it wrong.

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Please share a video modeling a teacher who is able to be "reasonable and matter-of-fact" about the fact that we are practicing these drills just in case someone decides to come on campus and start shooting.
First, I don't tell K, 1, 2, and 3 students that we're having these drills "just in case someone decides to come on campus and start shooting." That would be less than truthful, since there are a myriad of scenarios in which a lock down drill would occur.

For example, the most frequent reason for a lock down that I know is that something has happened IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, and as a precaution, the school goes on lock down. That might be a shooting, or an armed robbery, or a knife stabbing, or any number of incidents.

So, no need to scare the kids by telling them a less than honest, exaggerated scary story.

If I tell the children anything, I say that in case there was a bad person in the school or the neighborhood, we are practicing hiding, like hide and seek. I tell them its just like a fire drill. I tell them I've worked in schools for 15 years and never had a fire, or a bad person near the school, but we still practice.

I explain as I shut the 12 shades in my room that we don't want anyone peeking into the windows. I explain that we're going to pretend to lock the bad guys out, as I lock the doors to my room. I explain that their job is to sit quietly so that they can't be heard, and especially warn them that the principal might try to trick them into talking by knocking on the door or rattling the doorknob, so if they hear those things, to be especially quiet. I tell them if they do that, they will win the game.

When we're done, I praise them for the things they did right, and tell them what they must do better the next time.

I've conducted two lock down drills this year, and four last year, etc. Young kids, K-2. There's never any crying or scared kids. If you're scaring kids, you're doing it wrong.

Last edited by PrivateEyes; 11-21-2019 at 05:44 PM..
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not gun laws, society, evil and government
Old 11-28-2019, 07:59 AM
 
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mental illness, yes but also society, the sandy hook shooter was not legally able to have any guns, he killed his mother to access the guns he was not supposed to have. Remington did nothing wrong, they had no culpability, the guns went through at least two other purchases after leaving their facility, both of which were heavily controlled by legal procedures and standards. a common problem in many (but not all) shootings is the inability of the schools to properly inform people about potential threats from the shooters that they often already knew were issues. what part does FERPA play in protecting these shooters prior to the events? sandy hook, and Lakewood Florida were both examples where everyone knew the shooters were a problem, in Florida the school district and the sheriffs department were directly responsible, as they all the forewarning anyone would ever need but nothing was done. government failed in these kinds of cases, not a manufacturer of a tool.
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Old 11-30-2019, 03:53 PM
 
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Whd507, I agree with you 100%. Frecklejuice, you're also right. Guns in the wrong hands are a problem, but it isn't only a gun problem.

All of the school shooters have been males, but females have stabbed other students with knives . . . and scissors.
https://www.winknews.com/2017/03/28/...a-high-school/
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news...gh_school.html

There was also this one in Michigan:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ol/1277040002/

The discussion about lockdown drills reminded me of a kind of drill we had back in the early 60s, air raid drills. We'd get under our classroom tables for protection. I was young and had no idea what was going on, and our teachers never explained why we were doing it. Looking back now, thinking about how getting under a table would protect us (not!) from a USSR bombing . . . that's a very scary thought!
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:39 PM
 
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deleting this message because I posted it on the wrong thread

Last edited by LazyLake; 12-11-2019 at 03:42 PM.. Reason: Posted on the wrong thread
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