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Smores18 Smores18 is offline
 
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Guilty till proven innocent.
Old 01-10-2020, 04:52 PM
 
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Well local newspaper stated yesterday that substitute teacher in a local middle school being accused and investigated. Removed from school. Very vague information. Today no charges were filed after a complete investigation..So why did they have to put the initial "story" out? Eventhough found innocent, this poor sub will never get another job just because of his "record" of investigation. Probably accused by some vindictive student. I am all for charges being brought up on inappropriate behavior but PROVE IT before you let the public know.
I have no problem with them pulling a sub out until they get the whole story. Based on the comments from the initial story, this guy has already been tried and found guilty in facebook court.
I decided years ago I am only doing the younger kids because teens can accuse and be believed on the spot. If they only knew the damage they cause from false accusations.


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Old 01-10-2020, 07:00 PM
 
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I have been the victim of this sort of thing. I have contacted everybody I can think of, to get the laws changed. Everything shouldn't be a public record. I am lucky if I get back a form letter.
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Sublime Sublime is offline
 
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:17 PM
 
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It's called "trial by media". Now I guess it can be called "trial by social media," also. Newspapers have been doing it for years.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:21 AM
 
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Quote:
I decided years ago I am only doing the younger kids because teens can accuse and be believed on the spot. If they only knew the damage they cause from false accusations.
You are correct; subs are guilty until we prove our innocence and often we don't get the opportunity to do so. We find out through happenstance, being removed from jobs, or no jobs in schools/districts where we previously worked frequently. It will be interesting to see if the removed sub is allowed to return to that middle school or any school in the district.

It would also be interesting to see if the sub would have a case for slander, libel, and/or defamation of character.
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luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:06 AM
 
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Thanks for starting this discussion!

I've noticed the media loves to trash substitute teachers. With all the outrageous and criminal behavior going on among the "rich and famous," why target lowly subs for the media bullying campaigns? It makes no sense at all to me.It's as if too many journalists have way too much time on their hands and the maturity level of a middle schooler.

This job is difficult enough without all the media lynch mobbing and scapegoating. I wish journalists would focus on important issues and stop using subs for target practice!


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Old 01-11-2020, 09:30 AM
 
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As a sub I've been banned from a school before simply for being stuck in traffic.... Due to a car accident in the dead of winter. I even notified the school I was stuck and they still banned me.

Some schools need to stop acting like tyrants.

That all being said, there are some subs who certainly cross the line of good judgment, but that still doesn't mean other subs should be penalized for minor infractions because of it.

Bottom line: Substitute teaching in general is not a fair profession and is demonized by the media.
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Youíre not safe anywhere...
Old 01-11-2020, 10:39 AM
 
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Even younger kids make accusations. I know a sub who quit after a second grader made a minor accusation. She was a retired teacher with a spotless record and threw in the towel because admin clearly felt the need to fully investigate without any consideration of her record and how minor the complaint was.

So thereís plenty of blame to go around, including subs ourselves. Itís super important to earn the respect of all stakeholders, including the kids, parents, admire, other teachers... and understand the risks we take every day. And thanks to the media, every time a sub does something wrong, we all pay for it with a diminished reputation.

I sometimes tell the kids ďYou donít have to like it but you still have to do it.Ē Weíre not going to change the media or social media... or, for that matter, admin. But we can be as smart and careful as possible. Even then there are no guarantees. It really is an unfair world we live in.
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My issue not sub related
Old 01-11-2020, 11:35 AM
 
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I should probably clarify that the incident I was accused of wasn't sub related. Laws need to be changed to protect the innocent.
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luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:43 PM
 
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Yep...the bottom line is that we're only human. We all make mistakes. But as far as the workplace is concerned, there are huge inequities as far as who gets penalized and who doesn't, and to what degree.

I've had many jobs over my lifetime, but I've never had a job with so many responsibilities and risks and so few rights or protections. I only sub because I truly enjoy the work and am good at it. But I feel like I'm walking a tightrope every day. Just the slightest slip could be the demise of my career.

It's not that subs make more mistakes than anyone else. It's that we are juggling so much, have to appease so many different people, and have absolutely no recourse if someone decides to lay blame on us for something. There's just this "throw away and get another one" attitude, despite the shortage of subs in many districts. It really makes no sense either.

I recently got yanked off a multi-day assignment merely because a student in class (2nd grade) had diarrhea and didn't make it to the restroom in time. His mother had to bring him clean pants. She was angry about being inconvenienced, so she complained and blamed me. This particular district has a policy that one parent complaint (no matter how petty) requires removing the sub from the job. So that's what happened.

Ridiculous? You bet. But I'm just a sub. I have no union. I have no protections. I can't change the rules. I have to just shake it off and move on. I can always quit this district, but it's pretty much the same with every district. So it's either leave subbing or put up with the inequities.

At least this incident didn't get blown way out of proportion and sensationalized by mean spirited journalists and Facebook junkies. Guess I should count my blessings?

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 01-11-2020 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:40 PM
 
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Agree with everyone. It is too easy to let a sub go instead of investigating and taking time to hear all sides. I just get tired of hearing schools talk about the "sub shortage" when they are so quick to cut one loose instead of taking the time to hear it out. I got banned by a school because I got the lunch count wrong. I went to plead my case to the secretary- yeah I know- telling her my count was right...I cant control kids changing their mind on entrees while in line. Karma is good though. Saw the cafeteria head at the gym in the summer. I said loudly," Oh you are the one that got me banned from your school for getting the lunch count wrong! " She tried explaining herself but I just walked away. Yeah I know it was wrong but it felt good!


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Old 01-11-2020, 09:00 PM
 
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That's what I try to do. Agree with everybody. Don't give them my ideas (that got me banned). Just go with the flow, try to keep my mouth shut, and go on.
If they would simply give us the respect of hearing our side, they would have more subs. Can't believe people can be fired from a job without even telling them.
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Fractured Fractured is offline
 
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:16 PM
 
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Wow, I feel bad for all of you. I thought my districts were bad, but this is horrible. As mentioned before, I do have a union. While it has caused me some headaches, I do know I have a union rep to defend me if Iím accused of anything. A teacher told me because our union is so strong, he had to go to his principal and they both had to talk to the union to get a sub removed from his class who was saying things he should not have been saying. I assume they were able to provide enough testimony to do so.

Iím sure a teacher can ask to not have me back in their class, but Iíd probably have to be informed about it. Even in districts with no union, I would still have to be informed by the particular school if they banned me from the building. The district has to write me a letter about it. Not sure if I can appeal. I think they are short on subs and their schools are not great, so prolly it is easier to stay there.

But, I still feel like all you as far as walking the tightrope. Like teachers can talk sh*t about their students or school, but if we do it itís all over for us. I did tell teachers what my job was like this week at lunch and they were really surprised. I was kind of nervous about it, but they really had no idea about what we put up with and how classes act, and more importantly- how school admin blows off our complaints or our problems with students. I do hate this job.
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:00 PM
 
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I do draw the line when it comes to student behavior. I don't think we can complain about student behavior, if we don't report it to the teacher. I know some subs never say anything negative, but I leave honest feedback. That being said, I only report poor behavior if I know enough detail that the teacher can take action, if they want to.
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subasaurus subasaurus is offline
 
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@smores
Old 01-12-2020, 05:50 AM
 
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Yep.

They wouldn't have a "sub shortage" if they actually disciplined their students and respected their subs.

Who wants to work in an asylum run by inmates?

Who wants to deal with students who are allowed to say offensive racial/ethnic stereotypes in class and play on their cell phones all period?

Who wants to be told they're "just a sub?"

Who wants to be talked down to do by the T.A.?

Hey, schools:

Maybe stop banning us for every minor infraction and we can actually come back to work for you. Remember, we don't even know half of student's names, and they're rarely "angels" when their teacher is away. Just a little word of advice.

Last edited by subasaurus; 01-12-2020 at 06:26 AM..
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luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
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well said, subsaurus!
Old 01-12-2020, 07:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Who wants to work in an asylum run by inmates?
Well said!

I'll add another point to that.

I've worked for a few different districts, and they're all the same. They hire just about anything with a pulse, including people who are totally unequipped to handle the challenges and difficulties of the job. Then the districts penalize all their subs with draconian policies and banning practices intended to "weed out the bad apples" after the fact.

Last year, I took a job with a district that I hoped would be different. They were very short on subs at the time because their schools were on the outskirts in the lower income areas. However, they had a great sub coordinator, were extremely appreciative of the subs they had, and I felt really welcomed and appreciated.

That lasted only a few months until their awesome substitute coordinator retired, they increased the sub pay, and added incentives for days worked. At that point, things quickly changed. They suddenly had lots of new subs and the jobs were being quickly snatched up, making it much more difficult to get decent jobs.

With that, the treatment has also deteriorated They've started the worst practice of banning subs without notice and the atmosphere at schools has become tense and unfriendly. I believe it's because HR is no longer interviewing and screening subs, and they've been inundated with new, inexperienced subs who are only there for the pay incentive. So much for Camelot.

How long will these new subs stay? Probably not long. There will be the same old attrition rate among the subs, and soon the pay will not be enough because it will be eaten up by the rapidly increasing cost of living. Same old scenario.

I'd rather be treated well and be appreciated and supported in what I do than have a few more dollars in my pay check. However, when districts increase pay, they should do more careful initial screening as well. When they do mass hirings to "catch up," and hire inexperienced, unqualified, untrained people to sub, they create low expectations. Then all subs are treated badly as a result.
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Old 01-12-2020, 08:26 AM
 
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I am always sure to thank any staff that shows their appreciation, takes the time to learn my name, makes eye contact when I talk to them etc. Last week the office administrator said,"Thank you so much for coming today. We appreciate you." I told her that I wish more schools were like this one. I will actually stop going to a school if I am continually referred to as "hey you..sub" , asked to do multiple copy assignments, and told in an angry voice what I should be doing. I told her respect and kindness make a difference and I can comfortably say I speak for all subs. She told me she assumed all schools appreciated subs and she was genuinely taken aback...Eyes opened.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:53 AM
 
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I'm happy if they just say "hi" to me. I've been in some schools, on yard duty (thankfully I only do high school, now), and the woman 30 feet away from me doesn't even give me eye contact, the entire time.

I would, also, rather have less pay and like my job. It isn't worth it to me to be miserable. Luckily, I have both at my new school, knock on wood.

Last edited by bodhimom; 01-12-2020 at 01:12 PM.. Reason: Spelling error lol
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subasaurus subasaurus is offline
 
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@luv2teach
Old 01-12-2020, 12:03 PM
 
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Thanks.

I too would prefer being paid less to being treated with disdain.

Don't get me wrong, I love money, lol. But respect is far more important to me than a big paycheck.
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It's the kid, not the age.
Old 01-17-2020, 10:04 AM
 
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I am a substitute teacher for elementary grades. I had a student make up a lie on me after I corrected him. He acted like I abused him by running away from me during dismissal, and his mother came to talk to me with the energy of ready to fight. I went to the principal office immediately after all of the students were dismissed. I told them what happen, and they gave me some pointers on how to better handle the situation. I had to write what happened in the classroom. I was told they would do an investigation. I wasn't banned, and they never spoken to me about it again. It was nerve wrecking for me because I did not want him to take away different type of jobs I could work. I did not even think about being on the local news at all. That would have been awful. I'm so grateful on how they handled the investigation.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:02 PM
 
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It's probably not the first time the parent has caused a problem. They probably know her by name.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:45 PM
 
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I was bored today and happen to come across LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School district). They have a certificated substitute (not guest teacher lol) union that appears VERY active. Their union addressed MANY of the issues that have come up on this forum. They even put out a substitute newsletter called "substance."

It was interesting to look at and it even had articles about how to not get fired, etc.

Anyway, just passing it on. I would put in the link, but I'm on my phone and I don't know how to do that, but I think you guys could Google it and find it.
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