More time for no more pay? - ProTeacher Community




Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      Substitute Teachers

More time for no more pay?

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
mkesub mkesub is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

mkesub
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member
More time for no more pay?
Old 05-16-2017, 09:01 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

I took a half day am position that was listed in Aesop as 7:30 - 11:30. First of all, the lesson plans say to pick up the kids at 7:25. No big issue, it's only five minutes, and I was there early. But then I see that the plans go until lunch at 12:10. I mention this to the principal, and he asks if I could stay that long. I said maybe, but it would have to be changed on Aesop and would go over four hours so I'd get paid a whole day.

He said something like "The expectation has always been that subs stay until lunch time at the half day rate -- since it's only an extra half hour."

[Kind of ironic that he worded it that way, and I had just given the students a lesson in passive vs. active voice.. Also, umm.. that's more than a half hour..]

Hmm.. maybe I should have stayed.. I didn't. I apologized and said that I had other commitments and really couldn't stay past 11:30. Students were in gym at that time, so I didn't just walk out on them. I let the principal know somebody would have to pick them up and supervise them until lunch time.

But the whole experience makes me feel uncomfortable, like I'm being petty and all I care about is the money.

Did I do the right thing?


mkesub is offline   Reply With Quote

CC96 CC96 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 149
Full Member

CC96
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 149
Full Member
Blocked
Old 05-16-2017, 09:24 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

No, you will get blocked, you should have stuck it out and then just be more cautious with that school next time
CC96 is offline   Reply With Quote
mkesub mkesub is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

mkesub
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

Old 05-16-2017, 09:35 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

Well, from the way the principal answered me I really don't think I'll be blocked. His tone of voice was more like he was asking me a question. Also, I did apologize and said just that I couldn't do it because of a previous commitment. I've subbed there plenty of times before and they like me there. The 12:10 lunch thing has never come up before because that is only for the 8th grade. Other grades are at 11:30 or earlier.

But if I did get blocked it wouldn't be the worst thing. It's kind of a rough school. But that's another reason I think I won't be -- they have trouble getting subs.
mkesub is offline   Reply With Quote
Sublime Sublime is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,211
Senior Member

Sublime
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,211
Senior Member

Old 05-16-2017, 02:06 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

I have stayed past the half day mark, up to half an hour, when a teacher's meeting has gone long and I don't think that is fair to expect from us when we don't get paid for it. If I had had a prior commitment I would have had to tell them I couldn't stay. If you accepted a job that went until 11:30 it is not unreasonable to plan to go somewhere after and say, "No, I can't stay," (even if you had nowhere to go).

The expectation where I work is NOT to stay until lunch unless 11:30 is lunch! You/we should get paid if asked to stay late. So you would have been there probably from about 7:15 to 12:15, which is 5 hours. My half-day is 3 1/2 hrs. in the morning or 3 1/2 hours in the afternoon, not counting getting there a bit early or staying a few minutes later.
Sublime is offline   Reply With Quote
mooba1's Avatar
mooba1 mooba1 is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,602
Senior Member

mooba1
 
mooba1's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,602
Senior Member

Old 05-16-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

Wanting to be paid for the hours you worked isn't being petty. I'd be willing to bet that if the P was being paid by the hour, he wouldn't think to himself, "It's only an extra half hour" (or in this case, 40 minuutes!!). Nope, sorry, but I do not work for free. Of course I don't mind at all giving a few minutes here and there, but it's out of line to expect a sub to hang around for free simply because it's the expectation. I can guess why this school has trouble getting subs.


mooba1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 471
Senior Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 471
Senior Member

Old 05-16-2017, 04:31 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

I probably would have stayed unless it caused a true inconvenience.

However, I would have asked your sub tech if you could get approval for the full day since 40 minutes is a substantial amount of time.

I would also tell the sub tech that this Principal stated that subs are expected to stay until lunch for half days, and that if this is true, you should get a memo stating this expectation since you knew nothing about it.

Also, make sure you tell your other subs to not take half days at this school.
Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote
jeopardyfan jeopardyfan is offline
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 244
Full Member

jeopardyfan
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 244
Full Member

Old 05-16-2017, 04:36 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

There's only been one time that I have been forced to stay after my allotted hours (we had a tornado warning and the buses were delayed by an hour due to having to drop off the older kids later than usual). I emailed the sub coordinator that evening and asked if I would be given extra pay because I had to stay an hour over and was told no. If this situation ever occurs again, once it is time to go I'm calling the office and telling them I have an appointment that I MUST get to so they need to send someone to cover. I refuse to work for free.
jeopardyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
BayAreaSub BayAreaSub is online now
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,113
Senior Member

BayAreaSub
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,113
Senior Member
Glad I work for my district.
Old 05-16-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #8

If I accept a half day that ends up going through lunch, I've always been given the extra hours. Almost always the secretary will round up.
BayAreaSub is online now   Reply With Quote
broomrider's Avatar
broomrider broomrider is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,720
Senior Member

broomrider
 
broomrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,720
Senior Member
This might be of interest
Old 05-16-2017, 08:18 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #9

My district specifically requires "off the clock" work, telling subs to be in place 30 minutes before the time listed on the site formerly known as AESOP. They are equipped to pay 1/2 days OR for a full day rather than hourly. Thus, this off the clock work can lead to those paid for working 1/2 a day working long enough to meet the minimum time for a full day.

I foresee a lawsuit looming, I wonder if they do.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=u...+off+the+clock
broomrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Cayo Cayo is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 273
Full Member

Cayo
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 273
Full Member

Old 05-16-2017, 10:03 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #10

The law states you must be paid for time worked. It is not at the discretion of the employer whether or not to pay you. They have to pay you for hours worked, and you are well within your rights to refuse to work without compensation. At my district, 3.75 hours constitues a half day. Anything over that is a full day. One day I was a morning aide for a special ed student and was not relieved until I had put in 4 hours. The school secretary was reluctant to authorize the full day, so I took it up with the sub coordinator and she signed off on it. Don't back down on this. Schools routinely take advantage of subs -- low pay, no benefits. The minimum we can and should expect is a paycheck that accurately reflects hours actually worked.


Cayo is offline   Reply With Quote
LynneLC LynneLC is online now
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member

LynneLC
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member
Frustrating as usual
Old 05-17-2017, 02:30 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #11

If you are only getting paid for half a day (where I worked, 4 hours or more were to be paid at the full day rate), then they should not ask you to work for an extra 40 minutes for free. I would have wanted to reply to that Principal that it says in the handbook (if true) that working over 4 hours requires pay for the full day. I might have added that for the extremely low pay and total lack of benefits, that it is only reasonable that Substitutes expect the schools to follow the policies that have been officially put into place. I realized that a lot of this depends on whether or not you are trying to get a job with the school...

When I signed up for a half day, I was always ready to leave at whatever the original time said. If no-one was there to relieve me, I would call the Office 5 or 10 minutes ahead of time to ask if someone would be covering the class, as I had to leave at the stipulated time.

I should point out that when I had a corporate job, and was an exempt employee, I worked for many, many "extra" hours for no extra pay (as do many people) but at least then I had a "reasonable" salary and full benefits package. No-one was asking me to stay late or work through lunch, but it was all about needing to get the job done. Being a Substitute is very different though...
LynneLC is online now   Reply With Quote
SubMan SubMan is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,459
Senior Member

SubMan
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,459
Senior Member

Old 05-17-2017, 03:01 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #12

Both my districts "require" me to work "off the clock" occasionally.

District A: Teacher work day is 8:15 to 3:45 (elementary) but sub work day is 8:00 to 4:00. It is explained that the extra 15 minutes at the start is so the sub can prepare for the day before students arrive and the extra 15 minutes is so the sub can write a note to the teacher ensuring continuity of instruction. This extra time was added to the sub's day several years ago with no increase in pay. Generally subs can leave at 3:45 though.

District B: Requires that subs work an extra hour on early dismissal days. Usually once a month for PD and the day before breaks. We are told that if we don't want to do this we can block those days in Aesop.
SubMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Cetti Cetti is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 77
Junior Member

Cetti
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 77
Junior Member

Old 05-17-2017, 06:53 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #13

It is definitely unfair to expect you to work for no pay, and you had every right to say you had a prior committment (Good thinking!)
Cetti is offline   Reply With Quote
BMusic BMusic is offline
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11
New Member

BMusic
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11
New Member
Good for you
Old 05-17-2017, 09:47 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #14

I think you did the right thing. If you give and give they will take and take, and take advantage. You will have the reputation of the sub who works 4 hours for a half day as expected. I would also perhaps avoid taking half day jobs.
BMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 286
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 286
Full Member

Old 05-17-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #15

Well, here's the thing. There's no guarantee that the school won't block you. It's something subs really have little to no power over. However, the bigger issue is you have every right to be paid for hours worked. If you continue working for a school that exploits subs, you will continue to be exploited.

So I applaud you for taking a stand. There are plenty of sub jobs out there, and plenty of schools that treat subs decently. After all, you aren't doing volunteer work. You are doing sub work for the paid compensation.

We subs don't have much in the way of rights as it is, but we can still vote with our feet! You cast your vote. I applaud you!
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
mkesub mkesub is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

mkesub
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

Old 05-18-2017, 04:44 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #16

Thank you all for your responses! I love having this forum.
mkesub is offline   Reply With Quote
LynneLC LynneLC is online now
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member

LynneLC
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member
More thoughts
Old 05-19-2017, 02:30 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #17

It was frustrating when schools tried to get out of paying a full day rate for 4 hours. One time I worked a job coded from 11:30AM to 3:35PM. Got there 5 or 10 minutes early so I could talk to the teacher. Made sure I had a note written and things cleaned up when I left. I noticed on the system afterwards that it was coded as a half day of pay. i called the Substitute Coordinator and asked if the policy had changed and she said no. She said I received the half day rate "because it was only five minutes more than 4 hours, and the teacher is new and didn't realize that 4 hours would be considered a full day." Honestly, I don't care what the teacher did or did not know -- the school district should follow their own policy with respect to pay. I felt that what they did very underhanded, though I did eventually get paid a full day rate.

A couple other times, I took a job that was coded as 8:30AM to 12:30PM (always got there at least 15 mins early) and found out it had been cut back to 12:00 noon. One of those times they did let me stay the whole day to get the full pay. I get it that they are paying me for the full day so I should be willing to work the full day, but they also shouldn't pull a bait & switch.
LynneLC is online now   Reply With Quote
mkesub mkesub is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member

mkesub
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 250
Full Member
Not blocked
Old 05-19-2017, 04:12 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #18

Well, I wasn't blocked. I'll be doing a full day there next week.
mkesub is offline   Reply With Quote
LynneLC LynneLC is online now
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member

LynneLC
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 266
Full Member
That's good...
Old 05-21-2017, 02:14 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #19

Glad you weren't blocked... That would have been a ridiculous reason to block you.
LynneLC is online now   Reply With Quote

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
Substitute Teachers
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:02 PM.

Copyright © 2019 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net