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Old 02-03-2019, 04:56 PM
 
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After rdg the responses to Ellen Roo's post, I am really shocked and feeling very old. This seems like a topic people are very passionate about and I am about to probably get bashed for this, but here goes.
I think some kids need to be spanked. (Preferably by their parents before they enter school.) Some kids need to know they are not the boss, they can't do whatever they want, and certain behaviors are not tolerated. If the parents do not teach their kids, it is the school's job. If the school doesn't teach them, society will be much, much harder on them as adults.
I see nothing wrong w/ giving a kid a couple of swats to get their attention when they are being rude or disrespectful. ( I really only think this works for kids up to about 10 yrs old though.)
As kids, we knew the teacher could pull out the paddle and most knew not to push it. ( We'd be in worse trouble at home.) I spanked my own kids when they were young if they needed it. They turned out to be respectable members of the community.
The first 15 yrs I taught, the office spanked kids if they were defiant. I'd say 90% never wanted to go back to the office and returned with new attitudes. I know there are 100x better ways to discipline kids with natural consequences, usually. But for outright defiance, disrespect, or an attitude readjustment, I see nothing wrong with spanking a kid.
As for it causing aggression in kids, look at what goes on and is tolerated in our schools today. Look at how many kids we have who have no concept of consequences to their actions. Look at the disrespect for authority and aggression that is tolerated from kids on kids.
That to me has been a big increase since schools stopped having the ability to discipline kids.
Some kids spanking may not work with ( like if they have been terribly abused in the past or have certain disabilities.) But, with common sense, these kids would be given some other type of meaningful consequence.
After last week, I'd like to have a paddle and a bar of soap for some of the potty mouthed kids we have. I am joking about the soap part. Some of you will probably think I am a really mean teacher and human being, but I am constantly called Grandma by kids and get along w/ most parents and people pretty well.
I love most kids ( some are harder to love than others....but I try to look for the good in them.) I love them enough to want them to learn how to act in society, get a job and keep it, have a happy family someday, and more.
End of vent.....


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Old 02-03-2019, 05:01 PM
 
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I was spanked as a child, but I really do not understand what hitting a child is supposed to accomplish. Seriously. What does that teach a child, other than that an adult is so annoyed/angry/disappointed that the only thing they can think to do is hit? How do we teach kids to keep their hands to themselves when it's ok for an adult to put their hands on a child in a hurtful way?
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I don't know....
Old 02-03-2019, 05:08 PM
 
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All I know is we did not have such extreme problems w/ disrespect, violence, cussing teachers out, and total defiance before any type consequences were seen as a bad word.
All I can think of is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I guess I do not see all children as "innocent" either. I think many will see how far they can push their luck.
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Wouldn’t work for my DS, it would backfire
Old 02-03-2019, 05:13 PM
 
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Spanking has the opposite effect on my son as the effects you’re describing.

Spanking doesn’t teach him that he’s not the boss. It teaches him that Mommy hurt him. Spanking doesn’t get his attention when he’s being rude or disrespectful. It teaches him Mommy hurt him. **

I’ve spanked him once when I was at the end of my rope (because I had tried everything else I could think of). It didn’t work. I choose to never do it again.

DS sees the world as black and white and hitting him does not work.

Quote:
How do we teach kids to keep their hands to themselves when it's ok for an adult to put their hands on a child in a hurtful way?
This.

** My kid is not like typical kids so we handle things differently. Every parent has the right to choose how they discipline their child.

I’m waiting for the day someone tells me I should spank him to make him behave.

Sorry, I can’t beat the autism out of him any more than I can beat the stupid out of them.
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It obviously is not appropriate for
Old 02-03-2019, 05:31 PM
 
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a child w/ autism.
I never really thought about it from a parent's perspective either. As a parent, I'd have wanted adults at school to correct my kids, but most people no longer feel that way.
I think that is true that parents should be able to choose the way they discipline as long as the parent has a plan that is working. Kids whose parents have a decent system would not have kids that were causing so much chaos in the schools.
Many I see nowadays, don't have a system that works. A few do. Maybe the school I am at is way different than others.


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I see your side, I do
Old 02-03-2019, 05:39 PM
 
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I think that is true that parents should be able to choose the way they discipline as long as the parent has a plan that is working.
Fair.

But who judges what is working? What happens when that plan suddenly stops working one day?

To outside observers, it looks like we ignore a lot. Our parenting is strategic and intentional, but again, it may not appear that way. My son still has meltdowns and inappropriate behaviors in public but he’s come lightyears from where we started. Casual observers, new teachers, people passing in the hallway don’t know that though.

What is “wrong” with this generation of kids is a highly complex issue and I don’t think any amount of spanking is going to fix it.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:48 PM
 
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For the vast majority of offenses, I think natural or logical consequences are the way to go. Make a mess, clean it up. Be mean, others won't want to play with you. Play during work time, work during play time. I think that corporal punishment mostly teaches kids just to not get caught. I want them to be able to logically think through to the consequences of an action and how it impacts themself and others, not evaluate who is around to notice and if that person is likely to physically overpower them or tell someone who will.

I agree that some kids show up without home discipline, but I don't think they're sassing me because they haven't been spanked. I think it's because nobody has set a limit and stuck to it. I don't want their parents to prove their power using physical discipline, I want them to say no and mean it so that when I say it, it's not a brand new concept.

For all of history, adults have thought the next generation would be society's downfall. As Socrates wrote:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
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I wish I had posted earlier, but will get
Old 02-03-2019, 06:20 PM
 
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back here at my usual time and reply. I don't expect spanking to cure all woes.
As I said at the start, natural consequences work too. I just don't get it, why so many think spanking is wrong.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:23 PM
 
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Some time ago, I would have been of the opinion to never ever touch a child and I would have been horrified to even think about it. I don't see this issue as white and black as before. To be honest, being a teacher, I don't know where I stand on this. Am I recommending the school or teachers to spank a student? No, off course not. Let's be honest, the real reason why many schools don't use corporal punishment is because they don't want to be sue and in the past authority figures abused this power.



Having said that, I also believe in trying positive strategies, rewards, behavior contracts, positive comments, meetings, points, and so on. I also know there are teachers out there that have exhausted every single one of their options and everything has failed including every single one of those positive strategies. Positive strategies fail just as much as negative ones do.
Just because a method works for a teacher, it doesn't mean that it is going to work for all teachers and at all times.

The mentality that we should only apply positive consequences to misbehavior is absolutely hurtful to our students future. In real life we face negative consequences all the time for our misbehavior: speeding tickets, being fired, demoted, kicked out of a bar, put in jail/prison, death penalty, garnished wages, juvenile detention, being handcuffed, curfews, being separated from your family. Not allowing students to receive fair retribution is an absolute disservice and sets them up for failure later in life.

As I said before, the adm just don't want to get sue, they don't want parents complaints. If we were allowed to apply fair consequences such as a zero for an incomplete assignment, let them repeat the grade, suspensions when needed, I don't think spankings would even be necessary. Students now days are not allowed to fail because parents will raise h@ll and adm wants everyone happy.

I have witness administration give candy, hugs, special walks, make deals and give rewards to misbehaving students. They return to the classroom emboldened and encourage to do it again. I will argue that positive strategies can be just as harmful as the negative consequences.

What I am trying to say is I really don't know where I stand when it comes to spanking anymore but it is obvious that the positives consequences being used today in most schools are not working for everyone either. I do believe everything should be consider in context and be balanced. Consequences today are neither in context nor balanced.

I completely understand what you were trying to say in your post and I will not twist your words in any way. I also believe that you are one good hearted teacher, you really care for your student and you are very brave. Thank you for your post.
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Old 02-03-2019, 06:26 PM
 
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There are a couple comments in this thread that I love:

Quote:
I think that corporal punishment mostly teaches kids just to not get caught. I want them to be able to logically think through to the consequences of an action and how it impacts themself and others, not evaluate who is around to notice and if that person is likely to physically overpower them or tell someone who will.

I want my kids to do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because they are afraid of getting smacked. Because yeah, without that internal compass, they have no reason to do the right thing when no one is watching.


Quote:
Spanking doesn’t get his attention when he’s being rude or disrespectful. It teaches him Mommy hurt him.

Agreed.


Quote:
I just don't get it, why so many think spanking is wrong.
I am against violence, especially against children. That's the simplest way I can put it.


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Old 02-03-2019, 06:58 PM
 
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Hitting adults is not ok so why is hitting kids ok? Kindness and much more time without anger when raising your kids takes so much more work.


People who hit their kids are frankly lazy and barbaric to me.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
I just don't get it, why so many think spanking is wrong.
The answer is in your prior sentence.
Quote:
As I said at the start, natural consequences work too.
For many students, natural consequences will work. Why would we hit if something else will work? Hitting isn't an appropriate response in any other life circumstance - unless one likes spending time in jail.

For the students who are rude, disrespectful, and those for whom the "easy" consequences won't work... no amount of hitting is going to fix what's wrong in their lives. Because for most students who are behaving that way, there is a whole ton of stuff that is not good in their lives. They need us to be in their corner, holding them to high expectations and teaching them appropriate behaviors, not hurting them.

Now, admins who won't hold students to expectations/provide consequences... that's a whole other conversation.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:31 PM
 
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Its late but im gonna reply. Im 64 yrs old. I retired in June. Forty years of teaching in Fla and went to school here from 61 - 73. A swat on the behind is not child abuse or really a violent act. I was swatted a more than a few times in elem. and gave a few in my career. We didnt paddle much after the 90s. Bottom line? It works on some kids. Most kids behaved cause they didnt want a swat. A few you could beat em half to death and it had no effect. Is anyone saying in here that behavior is better post paddling? I doubt it. Is society a kinder and gentler place the last 25 yrs? Does not seem like it. Children are not stupid. If there is no real consequence they fear they will just keep on going. I have no dog in the fight now as I dont teach anymore and my kids (i actually have two middle school children) are pretty good kids. My first two never had a problem in school. The funny thing is the parents that said DONT TOUCH my child had children that were fine. Sometimes you had one who would have tough kids and say hands off. But if you said come get em cause they were bad they would usually have a change of heart and say "go ahead and give them a swat." The real problem is the admin is so afraid of having their school look bad with discipline problems they will pretend things are fine and discourage a paper trail or enable bad kids and ignore teacher problems. It is terrible. And they will bend over backwards to keep children with HORRIBLE behavior in the school. Teachers and children suffer for it. Society suffers for it. If this is a mess i will repair it tomorrow. Im tired and the Super Bowl and some Wild Turkey may have caused it.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:48 PM
 
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As usual, Zia stated my sentiments exactly.


Many problems today are not because parents have moved away from spanking, but they have moved away from discipline and saying no altogether. They want to pave the road for their child so they are never disappointed or hurt or have to work too hard. They want to fix everything and not admit that their child may be at fault. They think their child deserves an award or praise for everything. Not all parents, of course. I know lots of wonderful parents who are doing a fantastic job raising their kids. But when we have to say at kinder orientation "make sure your child has lost a game, has heard the word 'no', has experienced disappointment and knows how to deal with those feelings", etc., there's a problem.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Many problems today are not because parents have moved away from spanking, but they have moved away from discipline and saying no altogether. They want to pave the road for their child so they are never disappointed or hurt or have to work too hard. They want to fix everything and not admit that their child may be at fault. They think their child deserves an award or praise for everything.
This was sort of what I was thinking as well. I was spanked as a child. Yes, I turned out to be a responsible adult and my relationship with my parents is fine. Even so, I will never forget the feelings I had being hit by my mom or dad. Why would the person who is supposed to love and protect you hit you? I don't have kids but would not be for spanking if I did.

I agree with what's said here- the problem is related to the fact that there is often no discipline or consequences at all. I think parents are so much busier and more overwhelmed than previous generations as well. I've even heard fellow teachers say that they're hesitant to discipline their kids because they spend so little time with them and they want the time they do have to be enjoyable/pleasant.

I also think there are so many more distractions for kids and that the kids we're getting in classrooms now are fundamentally different (as in, the way their brain works) than kids that came into classrooms 30 years ago. All of that technology an instant gratification has made sitting in a classroom and paying attention extremely difficult for a lot of kids.

Not to mention, the standards have been raised so far that what we're asking is developmentally inappropriate for many kids. I'm in my early 30s and the things I learned in 5th and 6th grade are now being taught in 2nd and 3rd grade. Awhile ago, I stumbled upon my Kindergarten journal that my mom had kept and it was just a string of letters. Now, I'd be put into an intervention group for that writing!

I definitely don't think this "no consequence" thing that seems to be very prevalent now is helping at all, but I also think the issue is far more complex than it used to be.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:33 PM
 
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I agree with you 100%, though for obvious reasons, there would be exemptions. StephenPE... I also totally agree with you.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:11 PM
 
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I live in Southern Oklahoma and paddling is allowed although I think the parents can opt out.

I was spanked with a belt when I was at home. I hated it and I hated my Daddy when he would do it.

When I started teaching, paddling was allowed. The teacher would step out in the hall and hit. I remember hating to pass by when ateacher was paddling someone. It gave me the creeps.

Very early on, I came into my room after having difficult words with a coworker. I was irritated. One of the wild girls had on a dress with petticoats on and little white socks and was out of her chair. I reacted by taking her to the office and I was going to paddle her. She ran away from me and kept yelling I love Jesus. I love Jesus. I told her that I loved Jesus too and he wanted me to swat her.

My word. I was all stirred up because of an adult and I knew I overreacted. That was the first and last time that I ever paddled or even thought about it.

There is something wrong with the whole thing and I know from my experience that it doesn’t just roll off a child’s back.

I’m a much nicer person and a loving teacher. I didn’t have to paddle or threaten anyone because I have a natural calmness, I don’t take things personally, and I can quieted an entire school bus by standing in front of the kids. We have mutual respect.

I’ve always regretted doing something that I considered wrong. I just have never heard anyone in all my years say that they felt as I did about being spanked. It taught me to be afraid and never wanting to make mistakes.

My daughter never had a spanking. She was Salutatorian and won tons of Academic Honors and was never mean to anyone. We discussed everything.

I apologize for going on and on. This is the first time I’ve ever told anybody my feelings or the source of them.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Many problems today are not because parents have moved away from spanking, but they have moved away from discipline and saying no altogether. They want to pave the road for their child so they are never disappointed or hurt or have to work too hard. They want to fix everything and not admit that their child may be at fault.
A huge part of the problem and the flip side is the kids with parents that behave like kids and do no parenting at all beyond screaming at the kids to shut up and eat their carry out food.

Quote:
Not to mention, the standards have been raised so far that what we're asking is developmentally inappropriate for many kids. I'm in my early 30s and the things I learned in 5th and 6th grade are now being taught in 2nd and 3rd grade. Awhile ago, I stumbled upon my Kindergarten journal that my mom had kept and it was just a string of letters. Now, I'd be put into an intervention group for that writing!
THIS is an insanity I have been ranting about for years now. It boggles my mind that we all expect regular children in K to be like that top 1% savant/genius that is ready for the whole ball of wax at the age of 5. Age appropriate and developmental seems never considered now in the primary grades.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:30 AM
 
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This is a very interesting thread and it seems us older adults very well remember getting spanked. I don't think children at school should be spanked. I was switched as a child and remember running from my mother when she got a switch. I was also spanked with a flyswatter. I only spanked my own boys a few times and mostly when it was a safety issue. I do understand both viewpoints and I have seen children who were beaten and hit with a belt. That is child abuse

When I was in first grade the rumor was that our principal had an electric paddle! No one wanted to get sent to the office to try it out.

I think if parents talk to their children and are consistent a lot of problems could be resolved. Children like guidelines and feel safer when there is a structured environment.
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Old 02-04-2019, 12:04 PM
 
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I think there's a fine line between swatting on the rear and violently hitting a child. Spanking is not for every child or every parent. My parents never hit me so hard that I hated them. I hated my decision. It was always in a situation that I had been told not to do something and I did it anyways or a safety issue (like trying to run out in the road, trying to grab something hot, etc.). It was always prefaced with a conversation of love and what led up to that spanking happening. I believe someone said earlier on that all spanking does is teach the kid to not get caught, but isn't that a possible outcome for any punishment? Punish a child and they will either learn to not do it or that they still want to do it they just don't want to get caught doing that? Even as an adult I have to think through that kind of decision when something I did brings a negative consequence. I also think that each parent should consider their tendencies when choosing discipline. If you're prone to losing your temper, don't spank your child because it will come through on the spankings. My husband has had anger management in the past. He's a great person years after this but do I want to give him an outlet to apply force somewhere and dredge that up again? No. When we have kids he will apply other consequences and talk through the issue and the negative impacts it has brought on the child as he's very good at verbally communicating now.
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Do some women just "need to be hit?
Old 02-04-2019, 02:33 PM
 
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This logic is flawed. Children are just little humans and hitting them to get them to comply is pathetic. It's no different than a man saying he has to hit his wife for her to learn.

There are countless studies that have demonstrated the negative impact of hitting children. Here is a link to research by pediatricians and psychologists that shows that hitting is both ineffective and harmful. There are many more I could post.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/h...atricians.html

I went to a school where teachers were able to paddle students and it didn't make these students behave. If anything, it just made them angrier and more defiant. I would never dream of using violence to discipline my students. I have been teaching for over 25 years (so I am an older teacher) and I have never had a student that I could not handle without resorting to violence.

I can't even believe this is still allowed. We are better than this.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:09 PM
 
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I may be in the minority here, a child with autism should not be spanked. The Bible says spare the rod sploil the child. We as a society has deemed that we should not do this and look at where we are! We are in a land of “snowflakes” that we can do nothing with. It’s going to get worse unless we learn to live as God deemed! I was spanked, never once did I say my mother/father hurt me! I learned that I was wrong and there are consequences for my actions. Guess what I am an adult that has manners, don’t get offended by others having their own opinion, and my children are also the same. My boys are 19 and 22 and know how to treat others. It’s time to stop allowing society the rule of the home and get back to God, the foundation of the world!
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:20 PM
 
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Spanking and paddling do nothing to deter bad behavior. They end up making kids fearful and resentful. I'm amazed that people think it is OK for teachers to use corporal punishment.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:37 PM
 
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The Bible doesn't actually say that. I'm going to paste a few segments out of this blog post: https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/bibl...hild-mean.html

"There is often confusion between this phrase and a biblical Proverb regarding “sparing the rod.” This phrase was actually coined by a 17th-century poet and satirist by the name of Samuel Butler in his poem “Hudibras.” The poems’ main characters, Hudibras and the widow he longs for, are planning to start a love affair, but before the widow commits to it, she asks Hudibras to prove his love for her by committing to twisted acts. The widow then states:

If matrimony and hanging go
By dest’ny, why not whipping too?
What med’cine else can cure the fits
Of lovers when they lose their wits?
Love is a boy by poets stil’d;
Then spare the rod, and spoil the child."

"[Spare the rod, spoil the child] is most closely associated with Proverbs 13:24. We start to understand the context more as we read in various translations. The King James translation states “He that spareth his rod hateth his son: But he who loves him chasteneth him betimes.” While the New Living Translation reads “Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.” In any translation, the intent is disciplining our children in the sense of guiding them in the way they should go. To put it simply, it is to instill in our children right from wrong."

In conclusion, "spare the rod, spoil the child" is actually an oft-quoted bastardization of the Bible, and to add insult to injury, it's from a poem about an extramarital affair (very Biblical but not in a moral way). The Bible tells us to chasten and discipline our children, which is what the non-spankers are arguing for (it's the discipline, not the spanking, that creates respectful humans). Also, unless you use an actual rod to spank your children, you're not doing what the Bible says literally anyway. If you're allowed to interpret that phrase to make the rod equal your hand, you could also interpret applying the rod to mean applying rules.

(If we DO apply the rod, but we do it wearing clothing woven of two kinds of material....Are we still getting back to the Bible? Or do the faithful application of Proverbs combined with the disregard for Leviticus cancel each other out?)

Last edited by LastMinute123; 02-04-2019 at 04:36 PM..
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:45 PM
 
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I've always been of the mind out of school suspensions are the best punishment. Parents need to have to deal with their children. Whether some posters like it or not, it's easy to dismiss some behavior when it's not you dealing with. Ok, you got embarrassed in the hall. Just as disabled children can learn to function in society. It's easy to make excuses.
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I am surprised about spanking...
Old 02-04-2019, 05:34 PM
 
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I guess I lived in a bubble. I was never spanked by my parents. There was never any spanking in our schools. I never spanked my own children. I could never bring myself to paddling a student.

The problem is more about the fact that parents today get information from some crazy places. They rely on magazine articles, other parents with no child development expertise, all kinds of places. Even pediatricians admit they don't know very much about disciplining children. So, it seems like parents today just do everything to make their children stop fussing rather than think of the long range setting good behaviors. It shows in schools. The last two years I taught I was caught by surprise when I gave the children an assignment and a few would ask do I have to do it? They were in first grade. More and more the kids seemed to think we were on the same level and it was Let's Make a Deal.

We teach drivers ed. in high school. Why aren't we teaching parenting, things like behavior modification in children and appropriate discipline. I think the same number of students will become parents as will become drivers.

I can not find one research report that shows that spanking is in any way a positive way to teach children to behave better.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:49 PM
 
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Just a comment about “sparing the rod”...it is not clear what this Biblical “ rod” was or how it was used. One interpretation I have heard is that it is a shepherd’s rod, used to guide the sheep by prodding, not by striking. In the discussion of disciplining children, it may be a metaphor for providing guidance rather than literally using a stick on a child. ( or maybe not. In many cultures children are routinely beaten as part of their training).

By the way...a reminder that the word “discipline” comes from the
Latin “discipuli” which means “students”. In other words, discipline is a characteristic associated with students and learning.

I was spanked as a child, but not in school. I was not particularly traumatized by it...it was what parents did sometimes. School is different because teachers do not have the same love and connection to a child as parents. I do not believe spanking is necessary to discipline children. I did not spank my children, and I can’t imagine paddling my students. I taught high school and most of my students were bigger than me. I had to find methods that did not rely on physical intimidation!. Despite some moments of despair early in my career, I did find ways to manage behavior and teach students without corporal punishment.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:01 PM
 
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I also teach in a district that allows paddling - with parent permission. Although, at my school it is rarely used anymore as a consequence. Too easy to get into legal trouble. What I have noticed over the years, though, is that it DOES work to get kids under control, but only temporarily. Within a few hours or days, the kid is usually back to whatever he was doing to get in trouble. Also, when used repeatedly, it seems to become the ONLY consequence that works. So whether I agree or disagree with using corporal punishment in the first place, the short term effectiveness is minimal, and to me, not worth the risk of legal ramifications and the damage to the relationship I'm trying to forge with that child. I have had parents that will say, when called about a behavior issue, "Just paddle him." They don't want to deal with it. To me, if a kid's behavior is bad enough to even consider a spanking, it's time to hand it over to mom and dad. Parent needs to take the child home for the rest of the day.
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Spanking.
Old 02-05-2019, 04:08 AM
 
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I think I understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate that you have your students best interest at heart.

In my opinion, corporal punishment in the home vs. at school are very different discussions.
In a school setting, physically punishing kids is not appropriate. There are just too many variables, too much risk of harm. We never know for sure which kids have been exposed to trauma or physical abuse, who has an undiagnosed learning or mental health disorder, or which adults might abuse CP. I was hit at school, and it didn't hurt me too much, but it certainly scarred my older sister, who had brain damage and past trauma that her teacher's just didn't understand.

I also think that to be smacked by an adult at school is humiliating. It's hard enough for some kids to like school, without throwing that in the mix.

So even if I were allowed to hit my little students, I wouldn't.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:00 AM
 
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Quote:
It’s time to stop allowing society the rule of the home and get back to God, the foundation of the world!
Lots of heathens are good people.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:58 PM
 
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I think that corporal punishment mostly teaches kids just to not get caught. I want them to be able to logically think through to the consequences of an action and how it impacts themself and others, not evaluate who is around to notice and if that person is likely to physically overpower them or tell someone who will.

I agree that some kids show up without home discipline, but I don't think they're sassing me because they haven't been spanked. I think it's because nobody has set a limit and stuck to it. I don't want their parents to prove their power using physical discipline, I want them to say no and mean it so that when I say it, it's not a brand new concept.
Well said! I see so many parents out there who don't stick to their guns! I really think a lot of it is lack of confidence. There are so many experts out there with so many different opinions, that parents are constantly second-guessing their own decisions, so they're easily swayed by the kids - especially when they're tired (which I think is most people, most of the time, nowadays!)

Quote:
I have witness administration give candy, hugs, special walks, make deals and give rewards to misbehaving students. They return to the classroom emboldened and encourage to do it again. I will argue that positive strategies can be just as harmful as the negative consequences.
I think the well-intentioned ones do the "walk and chat" thing because they're trying to make up for attention the kids arent getting at home, but what they don't understand is that no matter how much the kid needs that, it simply can't occur as a direct reaction to the misbehavior, or it will backfire. Find a better time for it!

Quote:
Many problems today are not because parents have moved away from spanking, but they have moved away from discipline and saying no altogether. They want to pave the road for their child so they are never disappointed or hurt or have to work too hard. They want to fix everything and not admit that their child may be at fault. They think their child deserves an award or praise for everything. Not all parents, of course. I know lots of wonderful parents who are doing a fantastic job raising their kids. But when we have to say at kinder orientation "make sure your child has lost a game, has heard the word 'no', has experienced disappointment and knows how to deal with those feelings", etc., there's a problem.
Yep!!

Quote:
…the problem is related to the fact that there is often no discipline or consequences at all. I think parents are so much busier and more overwhelmed than previous generations as well. I've even heard fellow teachers say that they're hesitant to discipline their kids because they spend so little time with them and they want the time they do have to be enjoyable/pleasant.

I also think there are so many more distractions for kids and that the kids we're getting in classrooms now are fundamentally different (as in, the way their brain works) than kids that came into classrooms 30 years ago. All of that technology an instant gratification has made sitting in a classroom and paying attention extremely difficult for a lot of kids.

Not to mention, the standards have been raised so far that what we're asking is developmentally inappropriate for many kids. I'm in my early 30s and the things I learned in 5th and 6th grade are now being taught in 2nd and 3rd grade.
I agree - all these things are part of the problem.
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I'm 100 % for paddling.
Old 02-07-2019, 05:05 AM
 
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Let's bring it back and see how fast our kids straighten up. Behavior is way out of control and it's the only thing that truly works.
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Finally, got back to this! :)
Old 02-08-2019, 06:43 PM
 
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OMGoodness! I wish I could get back to everyone. I may have lived in a bubble too as
someone else said.
It is so interesting to me the different views and reasons for them. Like I mentioned
in my original post I really believe in, find, and love natural consequences when
available.
I probably should have mentioned that about 90% of the time, I think they work best.
Some kids (like my oldest sibling) probably never got spanked more than twice.
She was not one to push the envelope and is very successful today.
Also, I believe if you have anger issues you should probably not spank your kids.
Still there are some kids who need an attitude readjustment. I am shocked by
the way some kids disrespect their own parents, principals, and teachers when they are
at school. When defiant, a couple of swats imo could make a huge difference. If parents
do not believe in CP, they should come get their defiant darlings and do whatever works
for them. The kids could return when they are truly sorry and will never call
others vulgar words. A swat by someone who loved them is better than the way
they will get their butt kicked as a grown adult by another grown adult for never having
learned to control what comes out of their mouth.
Unfortunately, so many parents do not know how to teach their kids to behave here.
They want their kid to always be happy and to be their kid's best friend.
That does not end well.
Earlier I said by age 10 I think a swat loses effectiveness. I really think it is
closer to about 8. Also, spanking kids would not be my 1st "go to" method either.
A few of the posts really got more into depth about what I was feeling when I originally
posted this. The lack of consequences in schools now can be crazy some places.
I am fed up with parents who do not stick to their guns once they've said, "No!"
Kids do need to know how to know how it feels to be disappointed because adult life
has it's share of times things don't go the way you want them to. It is easier to
learn that slowly through
life than to get a big jolt of reality when you have to cope in the real world.
I guess as they say the proof is in the pudding. My sign off will be: The Lazy Barbarian who has raised highly successful, kind, and moral kids who understand right from wrong. It was not fun to be the bad guy at times , but I'd rather correct my kids w/ love than have society ( who won't care) have to correct them for me.

Last edited by Summerwillcom; 02-08-2019 at 08:00 PM..
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