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missmarvel missmarvel is offline
 
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Just Embarrassing
Old 11-30-2017, 05:20 AM
 
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So I posted a few days ago about how our new P this year is super focused on "growth" of students and test scores... Well...We had a staff meeting after school yesterday and during the meeting, he wanted to "celebrate" the teachers who had "met or exceeded growth" based on last year's test data. I should point out that only 2 subjects (maybe about 4-5 teachers in total) did NOT meet growth last year, and my subject was one of them... He literally called every teacher's name EXCEPT those 4-5, including me. I sat there as everyone around me was standing up being celebrated. As if I wasn't feeling terrible enough from the data meeting we had Monday, that little stunt made me feel even WORSE. If everyone but 4-5 teachers met or exceeded growth, why not just congratulate the staff as a whole? Why make me and the other 3-4 teachers feel like complete crap?

Now I have to sit and have an individual meeting with the P TODAY to discuss my apparently awful data from last year... To say that I'm nervous is a huge understatement.


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Old 11-30-2017, 05:45 AM
 
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I hope your day goes okay. I would suggest you sit and listen with an open mind (because at this point, you really don't have another option.) Accept that your subject didn't grow. Do you have ideas as to why that is and what you can/are doing to help bridge that gap? Be prepared to listen to ideas from your p. I would prepare to explain, since it is a new p, what I do and where I think the tests are falling short. I wouldn't blame it entirely on not knowing what is on the tests, even though I agree that is a problem (we have the same problem, plus that it is developmentally inappropriate). Focus on what can happen going forward.

I know that isn't what you might want to hear, and I hope the p is reasonable. Come back and tell us how things go.
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Ignorant
Old 11-30-2017, 06:52 AM
 
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When certain demographics are few in number California won't publish their scores so there is no possibility of those kids being identified. Your admin is apparently clueless on how to treat people. I agree with pp. Keep an open mind and be willing to learn. But remember , you are valuable and those numbers do not reflect your worth as a human.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:23 AM
 
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Can you imagine the stink if we "celebrated" with the students that way? You'd think an educator would know better.
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Individual student growth
Old 11-30-2017, 08:56 AM
 
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I would document how much growth each student made. I don't know how big your classes are but in a small class 1-2 students can have a huge impact. Are the majority making adequate growth? Do you have some with huge improvements?
I do not know what subject matter you teach so take this with a grain of salt if it does not apply. We can look at test results and target specific skills. Example - if you teach math are multiplying fractions something many kids missed. If you can go in with a list of the skills and ideas to focus on those specific skills. As other PP have state listen with an open mind. Try not to be defensive.


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Wow
Old 11-30-2017, 09:33 AM
 
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Some people should NOT be administrators.
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Prepare Yourself
Old 11-30-2017, 10:54 AM
 
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I've learned through personal experience that teachers in toxic schools must endure the worst kinds of treatment by their colleagues. Too many sick people become principals for all the wrong reasons. Go into your meeting (and any future meeting) with the understanding that they are all sick and prepare yourself for the inevitable. I won't bore you with my own experiences/nightmares, but suffice it to say, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Good luck!
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If It Were Me...
Old 11-30-2017, 02:22 PM
 
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I would make believe I was one of those who was honored and write a letter to the principal using your feelings...do not sign the letter and put it in his/her mailbox when no one else is in the mail room.

Dear Principal,

At our meeting earlier this week, I was asked to stand because my students met their goal. I was appalled by how humiliating this was for those who were not able to stand. If I treated students in my classroom the way you embarrassed some members of our staff, I would lose my job!!

Before you do something so outrageous again, please walk in the shoes of the person who was not able to be honored.

Sincerely,
An Upset Staff Member
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:15 PM
 
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"Can you imagine the stink if we "celebrated" with the students that way? You'd think an educator would know better."

Did you just confuse a principal with an educator?
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I am in the minority
Old 11-30-2017, 09:56 PM
 
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Because I donít see a problem with it. Why shouldnít the others be recognized for netting or exceeding the goal. Why should everyone get rewarded if they didnít meet the goal? I have had to sit while others stood before. It does suck, but thatís life.


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Old 12-01-2017, 04:29 AM
 
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Everyone is doing their best in most cases and we all get different students with different strengths and weaknesses. The teacher and student performance should be a private conversation intended to move everyone forward, not a display like this one.
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Well...
Old 12-01-2017, 08:12 AM
 
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Kyteachmath, for some people it will only make them feel discouraged and will cause resentment and competition among the staff. It seems to me the principal was actually picking on those who did not meet or exceed the goal rather than recognizing those that did. Everything is not in our control as to how students perform, no matter how effective or ineffective we teach. There is a right and wrong way to do things. Think if a teacher did this to students...
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Exactly
Old 12-01-2017, 08:15 AM
 
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Right. We can't expect teachers who have majority low students who may or may not have behavioral problems to have the same results as those teachers who have only gifted or high-achieving students. Those no equality.
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Scores were Ignored
Old 12-01-2017, 08:48 AM
 
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Teaching is often like going to high school. There's the popular click, and then the rest. My test scores were quite often ignored by administrators. My students usually showed growth. But when they came into my room to evaluate a lesson, boy did they like to criticize me because I wasn't much of an entertainer. I guess I was too drab. If students are making progress, what difference does it make how you deliver your lesson? Teaching is much more complicated than putting on a show for administration. They tried to scold me and bully me into doing lessons according to the latest trends. I would remind them about my scores, but they would pick and choose the criteria of a good teacher. Autonomy is lost in teaching.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:05 AM
 
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All classes are not created equal. Sometimes the P stacks a teacher's class with low achieving students to push the teacher out. Sometimes classes are statistical anomalies and are low achieving. Sometimes teachers cut corners and fudge a bit to improve their scores.

When all is said and done, however, we all have to gather our courage and be responsible for feelings and not become discouraged. Teachers can decide that the scores are not equivalent to their self-worth. It's tough but true. We are not our test scores.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:14 PM
 
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I did not find the point of the post to be whether or not a teacher should be judged based on student test scores. I donít think that one test score defines my worth or anyoneís worth as a teacher. Nor do I think it defines a childís worth.

However, I do think that students who do well should be acknowledged and if a p wants to acknowledge teachers whose classes met goal so be it. Why look at it as being singled out for not meeting the goal when you could look at it as patting those on the back who do?
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:41 PM
 
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Kyteachmath,
What happens if one class is loaded with sped students, or students who are English Language Learners where the test is not appropriate for them, but they still have to take it? Some principals clearly show favoritism by giving the "good" kids to favored staff while giving all the low performing students to others. That's not fair. Average students who are good students will always show growth and will almost always meet or exceed their goals. For the lower performing ones or the ones who simply don't care they might make a little bit of growth but not enough to be at meets or exceeds.
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Yes
Old 12-01-2017, 07:05 PM
 
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Iím not saying that does not happen,it does. Iíve been there. I wasnít recognized that year. The next year the teacher that had those kids was not recognized.
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I agree with Kyteachmath
Old 12-02-2017, 08:34 AM
 
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Yíall are calling this principal ďsickĒ and saying he unfit to be an administrator because he celebrated the successes of some teachers whose students met a goal. Really? Because Iím sure I can find tons of posts where administrators are vilified for not celebrating successes of teachers and ignoring teacher accomplishments. Maybe this principal will look for opportunities to celebrate success throughout the year and the OP will get her chance to shine. She has admitted that the test in her subject is kind of a moving target, and achieving growth is hard. So that means we just donít bring it up so no one has hurt feelings? I thought we were moving past the ďif everyone canít get a trophy then no one shouldĒ phase in our society.

We know as educators that some students wonít meet their growth goal. We know that some students have odds stacked against them for various reasons. We work with them and try our best to get them as far as we can. We canít take it personally when you have an off year due to things outside of our control. Iím sure OP is a wonderful teacher, i just wish she wouldnít take this so personally. Itís not personal and it doesnít say anything about your worth or value as a teacher. In fact the principal seems willing to work with the OP when they meet for the data meeting. I hope you go into the meeting with a more positive attitude and donít let this affect your relationship with your principal.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:13 AM
 
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In reality though, those tests were taken by STUDENTS. STUDENTS did the achieving (or not). If scores overall improved, the whole school should be celebrating as a community, because ALL the teachers and ALL the students collectively contributed to the overall score. Even those students who failed didn't tank it so bad as to lower the schoolwide average. For some kids, that's a success. Everybody has a part.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:02 PM
 
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And students wouldn’t achieve without their teachers. I’ve seen some bad teachers that did their students no favors, so I still don’t see the big to do about celebrating the teachers. And maybe he has celebrated the overall success AND called out individual teachers.

If the shoe was on the other foot would you not appreciate the pat on the back for your class achieving their goal? He asked them to stand and be recognized, he didn’t throw them a parade. So yeah...y’all are still blowing this out of proportion.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:06 PM
 
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This poorly thought out action pits teachers against each other and shames the teacher. Very ineffective and speaks to the admin ignorance about testing and how important it is not in the scheme of things. I am sorry you work with such an ignorant principal. Having teachers stand up as recognition for their kid's scores has no influence on test scores. If teacher's desire a pat on the back,put the data in their end of the year evaluation.
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...
Old 12-03-2017, 01:24 PM
 
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Well maybe the principsl should have recognized the students who showed growth instead of the teachers. Whether you want to believe it or not, they do judge a teacher's worth on test scores.
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I get it, and I also get it...
Old 12-08-2017, 06:21 AM
 
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I get why you would feel embarrassed by this. It's never a good feeling to be singled out for something that you might feel isn't your fault. I would probably feel that way, too, and we always reject feelings of humiliation. That being said, it IS part of the job. Those other teachers deserve the recognition. (The students do, too, but one does not supersede the other.) If you didn't make your expected growth, then that SHOULD be a conversation. I would expect to be having a conversation with my principal if my class didn't make growth (which has happened more than once before!) The key point, however, is that my principal always treated it like a JOINT effort. As in, "What can WE do differently to make an impact on these students?" I have never felt like it was accusatory. I have never felt like the finger was pointed at me. I sincerely hope that you don't have that feeling after your meeting with your principal.
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