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Come and get your gs! He wonít stay in his seat!
Old 09-07-2018, 09:22 AM
  #1

So I get a call from gs school, lucky me Itís grandma babysit day. Seems he wouldnít stay in his seat.

By the time I got there he was in full on meltdown mode with the gym teacher restraining him. There is a timeout room available that he is asking to use but the p is saying no he canít use the timeout room.

Soon as I get there p shuts her door. I cannot drag screaming kid down the hall so I ask to use room, where gs promptly turns off the light opens the door six inches sits down and calms himself.

I ask exactly what brought all this on. He wouldnít stay in his seat for a twenty minute lecture on health by a guest speaker plus there was a substitute. I asked if p would simply let us know when they would be having special days with lectures or if the teacher was planning to be absent we could keep him home rather than go through this (he always has meltdowns with subs) . She says ok.

He is calm by that time and we go home.

By the time I got home I decided to call superintendent (she was p last year) and politely asked that he not be restrained to a degree that there are red marks on his arms. I just donít think that is warranted for the infraction of not staying in his seat. (Kindergarten) I did say that I have my cell phone on and they can call me if he wonít sit and I will get him before it comes to a point he has to be restrained.

They are going to get an observation in which they will most likely be told to do the same things dd and I have suggested. (The obvious is k should not be sitting listening to speakers unless itís short and/or there are props involved but thatís beyond my control).

I did not say anything to gs. We are just having a regular day at home.

If there was a different school available you bet weíd change. But I do believe he will outgrow this little kid stuff if the adults could just keep cool heads 😁


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Old 09-07-2018, 09:28 AM
  #2

Am I missing something here?!?! Since when is it ok to have k sit and listen like college students?!? I have taught in several situations and have not seen this. Ugh I remember the first semester there was a lot of floor sitting and centers and movement. Did I wake up in a different world.?
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So sorry
Old 09-07-2018, 09:38 AM
  #3

I can't imagine how stressful this is for you. It looks like they could modify his seating or let him stand quietly out of the way. I'm surprised they are allowed to restrain him. Looks like he could use the timeout room to get control. Seems to me like you and his mom need to have a conference with the teacher and come up with some ideas. Sitting twenty minutes is very hard for a kindergardner without any physical activity. Hope things improve for all of you.
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:18 AM
  #4

Has he gone to the pediatrician to be assessed for ADD?
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I can't imagine...
Old 09-07-2018, 10:38 AM
  #5

20 minutes of sitting for lecture is hard for 8th graders, let alone Ks! I hope you and your DD get things solved for the little guy. What a stinky first impression he's getting of school. Makes me sad.


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Old 09-07-2018, 10:49 AM
  #6

The more of these posts I read, the more confused I am. You seem really upset at the school, rather than about the difficulties your gs is having. I think, despite you feeling like he is just a regular kindergartener, there is some areas where he is "differently abled." The things you are describing aren't really the norm. It will take some adjustments on all sides - obviously gs and the teaching staff, but also mom and grandma.

That said, I agree with you that a lot is expected of kindergarteners. My colleagues and I used to have regular battles with our principal about assemblies that our k's were required to attend that were much longer than 20 minutes. I still get mad thinking about it and I've been retired for over a year. It is within the norm for a K to squirm, ask if we can be done yet, pout, whine, bother his neighbor, get up to come to the teacher, ask to move, ask to go to the bathroom, forget and talk aloud and need to be shushed, etc. during a group listening event. It's not within the norm to get up and run to the point where someone felt he needed to be restrained, screaming, etc. because they are being asked to listen for 20 minutes - even if it is for longer than they are used to.

(I'm not saying it was right to physically restrain him, I'm saying you should be concerned about the reasons they felt there was a need to do so. It's sometimes easy for the family to lose focus on that part.)

I think it's fabulous that you are willing to come get him when he is having difficulty or as a preemptive move for challenging situations and could be one (of hopefully many) accommodations that could work for him.

I think a behavior iep would be helpful so he could get accomodations for these kinds of situations. Your little guy might need some extra help for awhile. It doesn't mean he will forever. I hope that you and the school can work together.

Last edited by MKat; 09-07-2018 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:52 AM
  #7

Btooks56: Thanks. That’s the conclusion we came to.

Mkat: No my gs is very different especially his speech delay which causes him a great deal of frustration as well as everyone who works with him. I have are it clear he has significant speech delays and frustration with that. It does take a little more effort to teach him but intellectually he’s not “other-abled” Naturally there are going to be mini conflicts along the way and I was only asking for support through this. I’m actually quite upset about his difficulties! I just can’t be there to explain what he’s saying to people and he has to learn this for himself. It’s hard. I just don’t think being restrained is necessary. There are other ways to try to help him. The school sees it as him needing to be “tamed” and it’s not really that... he has to learn to communicate better. You bet I’m upset at his frustration but it doesn’t do any good to get upset so I vent here on pt where I HOPE it is a safe place to do so without judgement ��

I stand by my original concerns that a kindergarten student getting up out of a chair doesn’t warrant being restrained such that there are red marks on his arm.

Today was just ironing out the kinks of a new year. As the teacher gets to where she understands what he is saying it will get better.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:54 AM
  #8

Thanks to all for positive support 😁🎃
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Old 09-07-2018, 12:12 PM
  #9

I will ask this again. Has he been assessed by the pediatrician for ADD?Many of the behaviors you've mentioned in your posts remind me of students I taught with ADD.
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Old 09-07-2018, 12:19 PM
  #10

If you truly believe he was restrained due to getting out of his chair, then I would actually go a step further and say that perhaps moving him immediately until there is a plan in place is called for.


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Old 09-07-2018, 12:50 PM
  #11

Restrained for only not sitting in a chair? I find that incorrigible. Were there any other students who were restrained? If not, Something is definitely going on with your GS. Yes, kindergarten is hard especially at the beginning of the year, but if the other students are able to function in the classroom red flags should be raised about your GS and his needs.

He may not, with his speech delays and behavior concerns, be in the best classroom for him.

Adults who are in denial do a disservice to the child. Do what you need to do to have your gs evaluated so that his needs can best be met, he has a positive school experience, and he is never restrained again.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:26 PM
  #12

So many possibilities here. I see that people asked about being assessed for ADD. I would add: Has your GS been assessed for autism spectrum disorder and sensory issues? I cannot see where a sub would throw off a child's entire self-regulation. Re the 20-minute lecture, are you sure about all the details? He might have said it was a lecture, but was it really? Also, are you sure your GS is ready for kindergarten? Maybe he's overwhelmed. I also wonder about his being able to calm himself down as soon as you arrived; that sounds manipulative to me. And finally, is your GS receiving regular speech therapy?

I'm sorry, but I feel like your GS has some major issues that haven't been diagnosed or addressed, and instead of pursuing them, you're blaming the school. As other posters have done, I urge you to explore these issues with your GS's pediatrician and others who can help get to the root of the issue. I wish you well.
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Your child needs help
Old 09-07-2018, 02:04 PM
  #13

Your message really struck a chord with me. I taught kinder and preschool for many years. The behaviors you are describing with your dear grandson occur in very few kids. In our kinder program last year, there was only one student who acted this way (4 classes). In first grade there were 2 students (5 classes). All of these kids needed IEPs. So, that makes about 3 kids in 9 classes who had "full on meltdown mode."

You have got to stop explaining away his behaviors. You stated: "I cannot drag screaming kid down the hall." You should be able to guide or reason with most 5-year-old children without having to resort to physical means. The fact that the PE teacher was brought in tells me that it was a serious incident, with your grandson's safety and the safety of others at stake.

Keeping him home when he's not sick teaches him that it's ok to skip school, and that he doesn't have to go when he doesn't like the program. Bad idea.

And may I ask, why he didn't get time out or at least a talking to at home today?

Please take him to the pediatrician. It is the first step to helping the little fellow be successful in school.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:14 PM
  #14

1. Hugs to you!!!
2. I'm assuming GS has a Speech IEP, your daughter should request an IEP meeting and request a comprehensive evaluation including observations to develop a behavior support plan.
3. Physical Restraint is a last resort only if child is a danger to himself or others. (my opinion)
4. Going to the pediatrician and requesting a referral to a Developmental Pediatrician is also a good idea.
5. The more information you get the better, as this will help develop a plan that best meets your GS's special learning needs.

Best wishes. PM me if you want to "talk".
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:20 PM
  #15

Gimet: yes that is all in the works.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:27 PM
  #16

Hey guys:

1. Yes dd is in contact with extremely good pediatric clinic with a developmental pediatrician on staff. I should have said that at the get go.

2. Heís been evaluated in the past 12 months but this is a new school year and usually they (if Iím not mistaken) let the first weeksí dust settle before doing observations. Itís in the works.

3. Yes he has some features of being on the spectrum but he is not severe enough to be diagnosed. Itís like heís just dipping his toes in the spectrum. These features are fading with time and a LOT of hard work.

4. Once again this is that messy period of time where things get worked out.

5. I donít think Iím getting the whole story about what happened today. I likely never will. I did what we do here, politely talk to admin about it.

I wasnít there. Do you see my position? I was told he wouldnít stay in his seat and things were crazy. Most days are not like this.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:31 PM
  #17

I agree that timeout at or within the classroom should be the first option.

When I said he calmed right down I meant that once they allowed him to use the timeout safe space (he knew the calm down routine) he was able to get it together. For some reason they wouldn’t let him use the room he’d used last year I guess the new p didn’t want to use that procedure. New p, new teacher. It’s going to be bumpy.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:34 PM
  #18

How about sitting in and observing the classroom to see for yourself the dynamics going on. And/or become a volunteer for the room to help out. In both ways, you can see for yourself what is happening and hopefully come up with proper ideas to work towards solutions.
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I don't understand 2 things.
Old 09-07-2018, 02:50 PM
  #19

Why couldn't he use the timeout room and why did the principal just shut her door? I am really sorry you (and him, of course) are going through this.
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When there is a sub...
Old 09-07-2018, 03:19 PM
  #20

Is it possible that when there is a sub, your gs be put into another kindergarten classroom? Maybe he could be slowly introduced to that classroom so that it isn't a culture shock when there is a sub and he has to go there for the day.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:19 PM
  #21

I can see that you have your GS's best interests at heart. I would also be concerned that he wasn't allowed to use the time-out room and that he was restrained to the point of leaving red marks on him. In our district if a restraint is used, a parent conference has to be held. I think it's also difficult to be grandma in this situation - you just want to love your GS and know he's okay, and you aren't able to fix the problems even with your experience in education. I hope that you, your daughter, and the school team are able to work together to do what's best for GS.
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Restraining
Old 09-07-2018, 04:21 PM
  #22

((Blueskies96)),

There is a recent thread on Busyboard discussing how students CANNOT be restrained even when they are violent and destructive. Note: I am NOT saying this describes your GS. I've read your recent posts and the responses.

Considering (on the other thread) that students cannot be restrained when things are serious, you may want to follow up on why your GS was restrained. It sounds like the timeout room would have worked perfectly had they used it rather than restraining for not remaining seated for a lecture (totally inappropriate for ANY K student).
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:23 PM
  #23

A child does not act as they normally do when they know someone is watching them...
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:25 PM
  #24

I feel bad for your gs. It looks as though not everyone on the ed team is coordinated yet. Unless a child is sick,injured, violent and/or inconsolable, we do not call a parent. And if we call a parent, it would be for an emergency meeting. If my grandchild was having these difficulties, it would be difficult for me. With a speech iep, I would wonder about a language processing problem. I would bypass the ed system and pay for an educational psychologist to do a full workup. I am sorry you have so much to worry about.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:51 PM
  #25

It's good that you're working on getting more information from the Dr. and that you're available to help GS at school. I also want to gently say that I agree with the others who mentioned it sounds like your GS has some significant issues and you want to blame the school.

This just struck a chord with me because I've often heard the same things from parents of young kids with severe behaviors over the years- the expectations are too high, he's only in K, this is normal for this age. The thing to keep in mind is that he's in a school full of other kids who are the same age/subject to the same expectations, and they aren't having these significant difficulties.

It's very possible the presentation wasn't that appropriate for K, but did any of the other kids need to be restrained or have other teachers called in? It does sound like they needed to communicate better with you about what happened, and it's well within your rights to ask. That said, I can guarantee you they didn't restrain him simply because he wasn't able to sit in a chair. Restraints are extremely serious and only reserved for the most severe of situations. No one wants to have to restrain a kid.

Speech difficulties, even to the extreme of a child being almost completely unintelligible, are very common at this age. We typically have around 8-12 kids with speech IEPs in our K cohort each year. While that certainly could be adding to his frustration, severe behavior related to speech is extremely uncommon.

If I were you, I would request a problem solving meeting with the sped team and the classroom teacher ASAP. Yes, it's the beginning of the year, but you have concerns and it's better to get them out there now than let them fester. Go in with an open mind ready to make a plan for school and home to help him be more successful. I would call on Monday.

While it's very nice of you to offer to pick him up when there are serious issues, this doesn't help solve the problem in the long run, and may even make things worse because GS will learn that if he wants to get out of school and have a fun day with grandma, all he needs to do is escalate his behavior.
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Old 09-07-2018, 05:03 PM
  #26

Brava Haley for articulating my thoughts better than I could.
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Old 09-07-2018, 05:12 PM
  #27

I will also say that Haley articulated all that I wa thinking.

You also mentioned that the time out room was used by grandson last year and that he never does well with subs.

Did he attend PreK at this school last year?

I’m confused by the fact that there is a “time out room” in any school. We could never have one in my district and I’m also concerned by the fact that it sounds like grandson is pretty used to using this particular room.

We only call a parent to pick up a student in an extremely severe situation... aggression, running away, etc.

Was he being restrained at school last year?

Having taught kindergarten ESE, I will echo that the “full on meltdown” mode you’ve described is definitely not typical kindergarten behavior, even in the beginning of the school year.

Our kinders here sit for at least 20 minutes for instruction during the day, either in their desks or at the carpet. It’s as hands-on and interactive as possible but that’s not always possible either. Asking a 5/6 year old to attend to something for 20 mins isn’t crazy... of course they will wiggle and maybe make noise but nothing crazy.

Last edited by Lilbitkm; 09-07-2018 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 09-07-2018, 05:55 PM
  #28

Over 31 years I taught public PK, K and 1st grade. Your biggest problem here is that the expectations are NOT developmentally appropriate! Can you get out and get permission to observe some other K classes in your district? If its going on in the majority of them its time to get in touch again with the school board and start taking action in your community. 20 minutes of sitting still for a 5 year old is not appropriate, period!

Nnacy
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:05 PM
  #29

I know most of you probably (not all) live in suburban or urban areas. I do not. We have ONE school in the district. I have been in several schools in very large districts and have seen all sorts of approaches.

Weíve got gs psych concerns covered. Heís been evaluated and heís due for another. Iíve got a referral to the State childrenís hospital behavioral clinic. So please can we establish yes I know his behavior is out of the range of normal or I wouldnít be here asking for support or ideas? I never said he was a typical kinder kid good lord I know that.

No itís not the schools fault. Yet until we get some more answers there are ways to not escalate him and I did write earlier that I spoke to last yearís p and she was going to help make the transition. And for now if they have ďspecial guest speaker daysĒ I think he ought to skip it. He does NOT like to miss school so itís not like he will act up to come home.

To go down a different path does anyone have resources on dietary modifications? I want to try that for awhile and dd does too. Not wackadoo supplements but food.
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:39 AM
  #30

When I started teaching Kindergarten was half day with little kitchens and other play areas. It was meant to socialize the kids and teach them good school behavior along with basic phonics, reading, and math skills. Now the kindergartens are full day programs with no play areas, the kids sit and desks and on the floor for intense academic instruction. The demands of testing have trickled down and made the kindergartens more academic. Students have to be ready for these demands.

Speech delays can case frustration when a student can't explain what they want or need. Have you tried reaching your grandson some simple signs for basic wants and needs?

All that being said it does sound like your grandson is experiencing some severe behavior problems. He may be ADHD or on the spectrum. I think you have evaluations in motion to determine that. In defense of other posters you did say you thought he would outgrow all of this little kid stuff which is why they suggested these things. His behaviors are more than little kid stuff.

I think you said he was in preschool at the same school, do you think another year of preschool would be beneficial for him? He may be academically ready for kindergarten but not ready in other ways.

I also wonder if you should send him back to school at all until a plan is in place for dealing with his behaviors. If the plan is that you come and get him and take him home then he should have some consequences at home.

Diet, I would remove sugar and artificial colors. Stay away from processed foods and dairy. Feed him lean meats, lots of vegetables and fruit.
Lots of exercise and outdoor play. Severely limit TV and electronic devices.

Good luck and please keep us updated. I do believe that all posters are just trying to help and are not judging you.
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GFCF Diet
Old 09-08-2018, 05:17 AM
  #31

Many people Iíve talked to swear by a GFCF diet for their child. (Gluten free-casein free)

Iíve talked about it extensively with our pediatrician and itís just not something Iím prepared to try with DS at this time, but maybe it will work for you.
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Old 09-08-2018, 05:19 AM
  #32

In terms of food I had a few parents have good success with gluten free and no sugar for children who are on the spectrum
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:00 AM
  #33

My husband has ASD, and from people in the ASD support group GFCS is an hit or a miss. The adults (level I autism) said it might have made them feel better? There wasn't an huge revelation. It could be because they weren't 100% GFCF, or the issues parents use the diet for weren't a problem for them.

The parents I talked to, with kids around your son's age, a GFCF change over can be brutal. Spectrum kids can be ninja master level picky eaters. My husband wont eat for days at his parent's house because he hates their food. If you are waiting for them to eat, it can be a long time.

If your GS is sort of easy going, I'd do a general diet clean up. I don't think GFCS is going to be this huge magic bullet that will change meltdown behaviors. Especially if this kid is a uber picky eater with 7 foods he'll eat. The young 20 somethings in the ASD support group said GFCS substitutes do not taste the same. They knew when their parents snuck in GFCS chicken tenders trying to pretend it was their old favorite.

If everything in your GS life is a battle, I personally would not do a huge diet change over now. Especially for a serious picky eater. You don't want dinner turning into a scream fest. I'd wait until things settled down a bit. You can test drive some GFCF crackers or other products to see if GS will even eat them.
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:17 AM
  #34

I went back and read some of your posts on a previous thread I noticed that your gs was evaluated by a behavior psychologist. IMHO much better than an educational psychologist, but still. Did they set up a program or give advice on how to help your gs cope with these triggers to his behavior? If not maybe your school will make am appointment with a developmental psychologist. There is a difference in the training and the way a behavioral psychologist and a developmental psychologist works with young children. A developmental psychologist will work with the child and also help train the adults in his/her life to use the same successful techniques with the child to modify the behavior. They are also spot on evaluating which behaviors are due to immaturity or are behaviors that deviates from the norm.

-just a thought.
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