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saying numbers

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 PCM Guest
PCM

Guest
saying numbers
10-12-2005, 10:26 AM
 #1

a dumb question ~ is it REALLY wrong to say a number like 876 as Eight Hundred AND Seventy Six??

 phoebe611 Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 644 Senior Member
phoebe611

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 644
Senior Member
saying numbers
10-12-2005, 01:38 PM
 #2

I teach my students to NOT say "and" unless they are saying a decimal number with it. For example 867.7 would be eight hundred sixty-seven AND seven tenths. Since you are not saying tenths, hundredths, etc. then I don't really think it matters. Plus, you are the adult - say what you want!

 Tylana Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 328 Full Member
Tylana

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 328
Full Member
Prefer
10-13-2005, 08:50 AM
 #3

I prefer that the children do not include the and unless there is a decimal point. Is it really wrong? I think it is because as teachers we should model correct grammar, etc.

This is just my opinion though!

 5th Guest
5th

Guest
yes, it's incorrect
10-15-2005, 02:48 PM
 #4

my students and I refer to it as the "whole number swear word" and we all exaggerate a gasp if we hear anybody use it

 TexTeacher Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,753 Senior Member
TexTeacher

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,753
Senior Member

10-15-2005, 07:01 PM
 #5

"and" means there is a decimal point. ex. five dollars and thirty nine cents.

 MM Guest
MM

Guest
And
10-16-2005, 09:36 AM
 #6

Yes, it is really wrong to say AND unless there is a decimal point. If my students say AND I point it out until they stop and I tell them that I am only trying to make it easier for them when we get to decimals. They usually catch each other doing it and correct their classmates instead of me having to do it though.

 hescollin Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,455 Senior Member
hescollin

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,455
Senior Member

10-23-2005, 03:05 PM
 #7

I agree and means a decimal point. If they say and otherwise it is confussing.

 Mandi Guest
Mandi

Guest
and....
10-27-2005, 12:47 PM
 #8

You also shouldn't be using and, because it is used when talking about mixed numbers. Example 3 1/2 is three and one-half. Kind of the same thing as the decimal.

 Mrs.Carlson Guest
Mrs.Carlson

Guest
Wrong
11-04-2005, 05:47 AM
 #9

My class evertime someone says and in math they say you just said the a word unless your using decimals

 V dog Guest
V dog

Guest
Hi This Is Wrong
11-04-2005, 05:48 AM
 #10

Its Rong To Say And Unless Your Using Decimals

 fried tofu Guest
fried tofu

Guest

11-16-2005, 06:20 PM
 #11

It's not wrong. I'm pretty sure they say 876 as "eight hundred and seventy six" in British English.

 USMathProf Guest
USMathProf

Guest
Right way of saying numbers over 100
07-13-2006, 10:22 AM
 #12

It is not right to say 876 as eight hundred seventy six, it is just lazy way of saying it. This is how it goes... if you have to say 876.56, the right way of saying it ( in the rest of the world and proper english) is eight hundred and seventy six point five six ( notice that in math you don't say fifty six after decimal point). And coming to fractions, for other than fractions like 1/2 ( half) ,quarter (1/4)
but if you have to say 876 11/5 you are supposed to say eight hundred and seventy six and eleven by five.
Seeing all the comments from TEACHERS here, I am not surprised as to why our American kids are way far behind in math skills than rest of the world.

 SusanTeach Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,753 Senior Member
SusanTeach

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 15,753
Senior Member
wrong
07-13-2006, 10:33 AM
 #13

Sorry to disagree with "USMathProf" and "friedtofu", but that's incorrect. I agree with the other posters - you only use the words "and" when it's a decimal or fraction to show a division from whole to part.

 teachva Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 100 Full Member
teachva

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 100
Full Member
and...
07-13-2006, 10:45 AM
 #14

I did some research, and it looks like there is still some controversy on this topic. See the link below for more info:

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57225.html

The truth for most of us though is that for the tests our kids have to take they need to learn to use the "and" to show the decimal point. Reguardless of your feelings on testing, this is the society we live in. With NCLB and pressure to keep my test scores up, I will continue to correct my students and tell them that the "and" should only appear in numbers with decimals.

 westlynn27 Guest
westlynn27

Guest
11-09-2006, 01:33 AM
 #15

I have always said "and" and used "point" to represent the decimal point. In spoken English, it simply sounds better to say two hundred and thirty-five point six (for 236.6).

Grammatically speaking it might make sense to drop the "and" it's simpler that way... but to be quite honest it just doesn't sound very nice when the "and" is dropped.

English is sometimes a stupid language with weird constructions...sorry.

If people who commonly use "and" are understood without any problem whatsoever then I can't see why it is wrong. To go on a quest to eradicate the "and" seems a little 1984-ish.

 elle1 Guest
elle1

Guest

12-04-2006, 04:52 AM
 #16

In British English we are taught that 876.7 would be said as eight hundred and seventy six point 7 whereas 876 7/10 would be said as eight hundred and seventy six and seven tenths. Where is the difference in American English between decimal places and fractions?

In the UK children manage to grasp the difference between 'and' used internally as part of a number and 'and' used to separate the whole number from the part- it really is not a difficult concept.

Also on the point that teachers should model correct grammar- I think 'and' as used in numbers is the least of the worries of the American education system when it comes to grammar! Eg. Mrs Carlson's lack of sentence structure on this very page and V dog's spelling and capitalisation.

 Proper Guest
Proper

Guest
Proper english
07-28-2008, 09:52 PM
 #17

Okay why do broadcasters all over the world exclude the word and from a number. So I guess what you are saying is that they are wrong also. So tell me what is proper english anyway? Language is part of a culture. So please enlighten me as to why most of the world cannot understand most of the people who speak so called proper english?

 gwill Guest
gwill

Guest
wrong
08-19-2008, 01:19 PM
 #18

How about we say and after all number places. For example, the number 1,256,362 as one million and two hundred and fifty and 6 thousand and three hundred and sixty and two. This sounds ridiculous, but I think it makes a good point. Why say and just after saying hundred. I am also a teacher. I teach chemisty and physics. Think about what year it is. Is it two thousand and eight or two thousand eight? There is no doubt AND is used to imply a fraction/decimal ONLY!

 Diane Spence Guest
Diane Spence

Guest
Teacher
12-01-2008, 06:53 PM
 #19

When the year was 1997, we did not say nineteen hundred and ninety-seven. We said nineteen ninety-seven. So why would we now say two thousand and eight for 2008? Just say two thousand eight!

Also you do not say seventy and five for 75. You merely say seventy-five. So why say one hundred and fifty? Merely say one hundred fifty.

Let's leave the "and" for decimals where it belongs

 Graham Crewe Guest
Graham Crewe

Guest
British English numbers
03-09-2009, 06:56 AM
 #20

In the UK we say 'and' after the word 'hundred'. To say that the word 'and' is a 'whole number swear word' is a joke (5th). Do American teachers think that British English teachers tell kids that 'color' is for losers? Of course not. We point out that it is acceptable spelling in the US, but in most of the rest of the English speaking world we write 'colour'.
So in British English we would say:
450,000.25 = four hundred and fifty thousand point two five
400,360.06 = four hundred thousand, three hundred and sixty point oh (or zero) six

 Rhodes Guest
Rhodes

Guest
Perception
09-05-2009, 07:55 PM
 #21

Honestly, this is a debate that is on par with discussions concerning religion. I think that the usage of the word "and" is akin to the usage of "hopefully"... American English has created its own concept of the meaning. I am quite confident that it does not mean decimal in all cases, as that would imply that all numbers without a fraction or decimal cannot include the word "and".

 stefanool Guest
stefanool

Guest
Saying number
04-18-2011, 01:59 PM
 #22

Why in the first writing number you donīt separate with comma and in the second yes??'

450,000.25 = four hundred and fifty thousand point two five
400,360.06 = four hundred thousand, three hundred and sixty point oh (or zero) six

There is a rule?

 imnotamentor Guest
imnotamentor

Guest
it's not wrong because..
11-25-2011, 02:35 PM
 #23

Hello friends,

I think that is it not wrong to say 876 as eight hundred and seventy six.

The reason why I think this way, is because the world oldest book (at least known to many nations) the Bible has the numbers with an "and".

For example, "Genesis 7:24 - The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days."

If we follow to the new rules, suggested by the teachers, then it would mean that the waters flooded the earth for a 100.5 (one hundred and a half day.)

Therefore I think that it is still correct to say eight hundred and seventy six until the Bible is revised.

Cheers,
Jake

 JamesNanshan Guest
JamesNanshan

Guest
09-06-2012, 06:05 AM
 #24

Hey Everybody,

I am American, but I must agree with the British: "and" should be included. The reason is simple: "and" means addition, not a decimal point. How many books do we have when we add two books and 4 books? We use "and" to represent to plus. So, one hundred and forty-two is just one hundred plus forty-two (142).

 Grammarboff Guest
Grammarboff

Guest
Grammarboff
06-03-2013, 07:58 PM
 #25

This is actually a case where many teachers teach incorrectly. In fact, it is incorrect to leave out the "and" between hundreds and tens. The "rule" of leaving it out was fabricated to help students understand whole numbers and fractions. But what makes more understandable mathematics is bad English, which has sadly found its way into many rule books and teachers' manuals.
Contrary to what many people think:
"eight hundred seventy six" is incorrect;
"eight hundred and seventy six" is correct.
Thousands are separated by a comma: "one thousand, eight hundred and seventy six".
If there is a fraction, yes, horror of horrors, there is more than one "and". The "and" before the fraction is separated by a comma in writing:
"One hundred and seventy two thousand, five hundred and twenty six, and three fifths".
The term "eight hundred seventy six" is literally closer to meaning "eight hundred TIMES seventy six".
This is standard English, not British vs. American. Soon, I hope, the rule books will be corrected.

 Grammarboff Guest
Grammarboff

Guest
What a Shame
06-03-2013, 08:28 PM
 #26

It is a great shame that teachers such as SusanTeach and gwill are imposing false rules on their students. When the teachers do not know what they are teaching, what hope is there? What worse can a teacher do than to "correct" a student who does something correctly into doing it wrongly?!

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