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Intwilitezone Intwilitezone is offline
 
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PBIS Not Working!
Old 10-13-2019, 08:45 AM
 
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I’m a middle school teacher in California and our school is completely insane. The small number of kids that are behavior issues are running the school. They jump on desks, smack kids in the back of the head, swear at teachers and then are given chips and donuts, free time to play basketball, and walks around campus during class time so they can take “breaks”. Referrals that are written are often returned by admin who say the problem is a classroom management issue not something for admin to deal with. APs have come into classrooms trying to remove a student only to be cursed at and disrespected like I’ve never seen and then the student is left in the classroom with no consequence! If admin has no authority over the students, how can there be any expectation for teachers to have any authority? I’ve been teaching for over ten years and in schools with very diverse and vulnerable populations, but I have seen NOTHING like this. I can barely teach because I’m dealing with so much other crap. I dread going to work everyday and I have had no training in how to manage these students. No one has any control and teachers are basically being told to improve their relationships with students so behavior won’t be a problem. . .
I know this is happening everywhere because it was beginning to happen in my old school and is happening in other schools in the state. Rewarding students with tangible prizes for simply not getting in trouble is a terrible lesson to teach and it ruins kids’ intrinsic desire to stay motivated and learn to better themselves and their lives. I feel hopeless about the future and how I’m going to keep this up. . .



Last edited by Intwilitezone; 10-13-2019 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:01 AM
 
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Amen! This is a problem almost everywhere it seems. I don't know how it is going to get any better. It makes it hard to get up and go to the classroom each day.
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Transfer
Old 10-13-2019, 09:22 AM
 
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Transfer or quit first chance you get. PBIS is a failed initiative. 50 years of research on student behavior is being thrown out the window in exchange for a long disproven carrots and sticks approach. I don't see an end to this coming in the near future.
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Old 10-13-2019, 11:01 AM
 
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We are a PBIS school, and we donít have those kinds of issues. How long have you been using PBIS strategies? Itís not something that is going to turn around overnight. Itís work to implement. And it will never work without buy in from everyone.

The focus on teaching common procedures helps tremendously. The behavior matrix keeps everyone knowing what comes next when behaviors arenít followed. Iím not sure what you mean by prizes. We donít have those as part of PBIS.
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Just wait!
Old 10-13-2019, 03:48 PM
 
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Once PBIS gets thrown out, you'll get trauma informed schools!
I think, but could be wrong....that PBIS has been "misused " by a lot of districts.
I never really studied it or went along w/it, but at our school PBIS= no consequences and fun for all! No matter how much chaos you create! I refuse to hand out tickets every 5 minutes or for something a kid should feel good about doing.


We called it Prison Bound in Schools and the nontenured said: PB is Swell! (in a snarky way!)


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I think PBIS has potential
Old 10-13-2019, 05:46 PM
 
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but proper implementation is the problem.

This year's incoming freshmen are quite a challenging group in my school. I feel like it's the result of poor PBIS implementation from middle school, but I may just be projecting since I know my school's PBIS program is not quite what it should be. And yes, for years now we've all commented that students appear to be running the school.
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PBIS is damaging in today's climate.
Old 10-13-2019, 06:02 PM
 
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The original idea of PBIS was to treat behaviors with an RTI model.

Check the data; apply an intervention; adjust by repeating the steps.

What happened in implementation is the problem. The same thing happened with trauma informed teaching and restorative justice. I suffered in a situation that say\w students rewarded for bad behavior. Luckily, my situation has changed. Yours can, too.

It's sounds like you got the bad parts of trauma-informed teaching along with the bad parts of PBIS. These no common sense current fads just hurt kids. Yes, kids have problems, but didn't we all? If the point is to help them learn and grow, we would put curbs on their behavior (especially when it hurts others), and help them deal with life...
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PBIS done properly
Old 10-13-2019, 06:11 PM
 
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My middle school tried implementing PBIS years and years ago - went all in. It was a disaster. Then a new asst. principal was hired who'd been in charge at his old school. What a difference! We went in slowly, with lots of training and information. We started with only Tier 1 interventions for the first year. Then added in Tier 2 for a couple of years. Now it is seamless with the Tier 3 interventions. Are there still problems? Of course. But it is effective for at least 85% of the students. It's not just about rewards, which we figured out as teachers the first time PBIS was implemented. It's also about kids being self-motivated. AND it's amazing how students who normally are, well....awful, respond to CICO and earning Friday study hall in the gym or learning center helping the librarian. I've seen PBIS done wrong and correctly. Correctly works. Mostly.
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Pbis
Old 10-13-2019, 06:42 PM
 
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For those of you using PBIS correctly, it does work.

I second, third, and fourth the people who responded to this post and know it can work.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:33 AM
 
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This is good to hear. I should have said that PBIS is being misused at my school. Iíve never even been trained on how to implement it or even seen the tiers. . .
Instead, we just give parties and treats for expected behavior.
Any advice as to how to get this corrected? Union?


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Old 10-14-2019, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Rewarding students with tangible prizes for simply not getting in trouble is a terrible lesson to teach and it ruins kidsí intrinsic desire to stay motivated and learn to better themselves and their lives.
I agree and I don't like to think about the long term consequences for our society.

The part of PBIS that's really valuable, in my opinion, is the part about being very specific and consistent throughout the school about what behaviors are expected where. But I, too, have seen it used in such a way that kids are lavishly rewarded for barely acceptable behavior.

And, all too often "trauma informed" becomes an excuse for tolerating poor behavior. I agree that teachers need to be aware of what some kids have to deal with and teachers should be trained in how trauma affects learning and brain function but sometimes "understanding" crosses the line to "condescending."

As for the notion that all behavior problems should be solved by "building relationships" ...what that turns into, as far as I can see, is that the students who behave poorly get to grab all the teacher's attention all the time while students who behave well don't get much attention.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:06 AM
 
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I refuse(d) to participate in it. Many of us teachers renamed it Please Behave in School. When I saw an administrator handing out coupons since some of them (high schoolers) were walking on the right/correct side of the hallway, I just about lost it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:46 AM
 
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I did my student teaching in a Pbis school. They are really big in my state. It seemed that by 8th grade the kids stopped caring about the tickets they could get to buy stuff in the student store, as well as any kind of disciplinary actions like referrals.
I felt weird giving out tickets for stuff students should do on their own. I think it leads to some kids brown nosing so they can get the tickets. Didnít really teach the more off task kids anything either, just that they would get placated for doing the minimal amount of work.
The only difference I see is in high schools. The ones in the non Pbis district usually have really badly behaved kids in 9th grade. Pbis ones seem to be a little more respectful, but I canít say if itís bc of the system or not.
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:29 PM
 
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Intwightlightzone, that is just infuriating!!!! When will people wake up??
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Intwilitezone Intwilitezone is offline
 
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:40 AM
 
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Yes! It becomes your fault for not being a teacher who can build relationships with students when we all know this is the basis for being a good teacher. Duh! Of course I know I have to build relationships. But, how can this happen when I can barely talk to the class for more than thirty seconds without one of my five heavy hitters interrupting and disrupting? Sending them to the office for a treat isn’t going to change the behavior. Ugh
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:44 AM
 
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OMG. . . I can’t.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:08 PM
 
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Most of the time it is implemented incorrectly (same with restorative justice) because a lot of admin and districts are afraid to officially document/report behavior incidents and give suspensions when it is warranted.
The data will be used against schools by governments (state and federal). Also, most of the positive reinforcements should be meant to drive intrinsic motivation and satisfaction but there are way, way too many tangible rewards like extra recess, extra access to electronics, prizes, etc. The reinforcers are also meant to be faded over time as students become independent BUT instead they become dependent on them or even demand them. Also, students who are consistently physically aggressive or disruptive should not be in a gen ed classroom full-time. They need to be in a highly structured setting where they are guided and taught self-regulation strategies as they gradually re-integrate into the gen ed classroom. I worked in a very tough school (thankful I am done!) and restorative justice didn't work at all. As a matter of fact, many of the students felt entitled to steal and destroy property and their parents were exactly the same. Nothing will change in that school until they stop enabling the students and families. You have the latest iPhone in 4th grade but expect the school to give you a winter coat, 3 meals plus snacks, a backpack, and school supplies on top of a free education?
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Regardless of howís supposedly INTENDED
Old 10-19-2019, 01:46 PM
 
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to be implemented, it doesnít exactly take an MIT rocket scientist to see how most people in the real world are going implement it (i.e. let kids do whatever they want with total impunity and reward them for assaulting adults). This is how it actually is implemented 99% of the time. I think itís mostly a post-hoc, quasi-ďacademicĒ justification for administrators to protect themselves by pushing all of the blame on classroom teachers and aides.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:17 PM
 
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A failure in my old district. It worked great in one school because the admin was heavily involved. IMO that is the only way it works.
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