State Exams for Subs - ProTeacher Community




Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      Substitute Teachers

State Exams for Subs

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
State Exams for Subs
Old 02-23-2017, 03:32 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

I think subs should be required to pass at least one state exam covering reading, writing and basic math. What do you say? If I were a teacher, I wouldn't want a sub covering my class that does not know the four elements that make up a complete sentence, for example. What do you say?


harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote

CC96 CC96 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 137
Full Member

CC96
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 137
Full Member
Ca
Old 02-23-2017, 03:41 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

California requires passing the CBEST.
CC96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Mikhail's Avatar
Mikhail Mikhail is offline
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,506
Senior Member

Mikhail
 
Mikhail's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,506
Senior Member
up the ante
Old 02-23-2017, 05:41 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

Absolutely agree! But I would also want for the state to pay for the fee. Let's face it, testing is a big money-making endeavour. I wouldn't want to shell out any money for things like CBEST, PRAXIS, and/or CSET.
Mikhail is offline   Reply With Quote
stolaf stolaf is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member

stolaf
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member

Old 02-24-2017, 02:23 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

In order to sub for my home state, nearly 40 years ago, you had to be a college graduate with a valid teacher's certification. In my current state, you can sub with two years of college. Obviously, the quality of subs is very uneven. I not only endorse the idea of sub testing, but I also think that a one semester class on the art of successful subbing should be required. This is a class which could be taken online at a community college or even offered by local school districts. I retired after teaching for 32 years and I know that I could have used such a class. This class could also include materials covered in a certification test. When the test and class are completed-A special endorsement could be added to a teaching certificate.
stolaf is offline   Reply With Quote
stolaf stolaf is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member

stolaf
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member

Old 02-24-2017, 02:28 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

With teacher shortages becoming acute, I think that there should be a nominal charge for taking the test--maybe $50.00 or less. This fee could be waived by the state if the applicant offers proof of completion of a semester class on the art of subbing. This class should also be offered at a nominal fee.


stolaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Ciel's Avatar
Ciel Ciel is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 151
Full Member

Ciel
 
Ciel's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 151
Full Member

Old 02-24-2017, 05:27 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

I don't think a test should be a requirement. Some people don't do well on tests. And with my own luck, the basic math part would include algebra and high school geometry, and I'd be out of a job because I never did figure out how to do those. . Aside from that, there is a huge sub shortage here, and they'd suddenly have a really hard time covering classes when they didn't before.
Ciel is offline   Reply With Quote
MaineSub MaineSub is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,261
Senior Member

MaineSub
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,261
Senior Member
See my post under the certification thread
Old 02-24-2017, 05:28 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

I also teach in another profession that emphasizes (demands, actually) minimum education, state testing, and licensing. Let me assure you that the major accomplishment of it is that it keeps some of the absolute worst candidates out--it does not at all correlate to competence on the part of those who complete the process.

I might be willing to support the idea of a school district implementing some basic assessments of potential substitutes on the "three r's." (Good luck with getting a budget for it, though.) I would not support the idea of state-level testing.

Anyone who has read my other posts should know that I fully support the idea of raising the bar for substitutes. But that won't be accomplished by implementing a state exam requirement.

As part of the hiring process I would support some basic assessments by the hiring district, but being able to identify the four elements that make up a complete sentence doesn't directly correlate to being a good sub. When we think about effective subs, I hope words like "flexibility" and "adaptability" come to mind. (Who wants to figure out how to test for that?) Most regular teachers accept the fact a sub may not be an SME (subject matter expert).

I have worked with Spec Ed Techs who couldn't write a complete sentence if their life depended on it. But they are very effective at "managing" special needs kids.

As others have suggested, testing is big business and has become something of a sacred cow, a solution in search of a problem. (Look at the current addiction to assessments in education. Sometimes it seems like we spend as much time assessing students as we do teaching them.)

Earlier this year I was called to sub in language arts, second year Spanish. The kids know me. One of them asked at the outset, "Mr. B, do you even know Spanish?" I replied, "No, but I know how to teach it, so let's get started." We had a productive class.

If we're concerned about the qualifications and qualities of subs, let's re-examine the hiring process and the supervision (and support) that subs get. In districts where that is done, marginal subs don't last long. Deferring the responsibility to some state agency is not going to have a positive impact.
MaineSub is offline   Reply With Quote
Truthy Truthy is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 40
Junior Member

Truthy
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 40
Junior Member

Old 02-25-2017, 08:55 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #8

Yes, I think substitutes should be certified teachers and only teach in the areas they're certified in. I say this as a current teacher and a former substitute (who was certified when I subbed). Yes, I had prior experience working with kids. However, it didn't give me the knowledge I got from student teaching. Much of that was school politics. There's a lot of issues I see on here and think "This because they don't know how schools work". Not to sound like a snot, but it's true of any industry. I see it with friends and family all the time. Like my uncle is into real estate. Could I "do" that? Yeah, but if I covered for him for a day, I would probably screw up with the politics of it. Also, I think subs should be certified because there are a huge number of certified teachers out of a job.
Truthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Lakeside's Avatar
Lakeside Lakeside is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,869
Senior Member

Lakeside
 
Lakeside's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,869
Senior Member

Old 02-25-2017, 11:45 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #9

In my state, you need a bachelor's degree to sub; it doesn't have to be in education. (Mine happens to be in mathematics, though I did also have some education electives.)

I wouldn't have minded if I'd had to take a test, as long as it wasn't expensive, but if standard certification had been required, I probably never would have gotten into subbing. The fact is, subbing simply does not pay enough here to require a large investment - of money or time.

I enjoy it, and I believe I'm very good at it, but I could only afford to choose it because it's an "extra" job for my family that I was able to just "pick up."

Last edited by Lakeside; 02-26-2017 at 03:15 AM..
Lakeside is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
Testing and Money
Old 02-25-2017, 01:10 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #10

To up the ante:

I absolutely agree that testing and money walk hand in hand.



Last edited by harpadzo; 02-26-2017 at 03:29 AM..
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
YayaSub YayaSub is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Full Member

YayaSub
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Full Member

Old 02-25-2017, 02:38 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #11

In my state, there is only a requirement for a certain number of college credits. While I agree that the ideal situation would be for a substitute teacher to be certified in the area s/he is covering, it is not realistic with our pay policy. The idea of a standardized test is good, but again, who will pay for it? My district does a nominal screening process that may weed out some. But plenty get through that I am embarrassed by. BTW, aside from certified teachers seeking a full-time job, most subs are doing it because of the flexible schedule and consider the low pay to be a tradeoff that is worth it to them. I left another field after 25 years, and I do this now because of that flexibility . Subbing is not currently structured to be a "career" for anyone. Thus, the demands have to remain low in order to find people willing to do it.
YayaSub is offline   Reply With Quote
MaineSub MaineSub is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,261
Senior Member

MaineSub
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,261
Senior Member

Old 02-26-2017, 02:37 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #12

Following up on what YaYa said... I would add that supply and demand is a big part of the equation. In some areas (including mine) if certification or a college education was required the shortage of subs would become unmanageable. I sub because I love kids and teaching. I happen to have an unrelated college degree but can assure you I would not get one so I could sub.

We might also differentiate between short and long-term subbing. In our district, long term subs (anything over ten days in the same classroom) must be certified. While it prevents me from accepting a long-term assignment, I must grudgingly agree it makes sense.

We have some retired (certified) teachers working as subs--often filling those long term assignments. Several have admitted that the skill set for short term subbing is different than having one's own classroom or long term subbing.

Career subs are the exception. By and large, we are a disposable commodity. It's not personal--it's the nature of the beast. When someone is needed to cover a classroom for a day, the minimum requirements naturally are reduced to what we can get by with... passing a state agency's literacy test doesn't make the list.
MaineSub is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
To Stolaf
Old 02-26-2017, 03:11 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #13

I also think that it would help a great deal if regular teachers did not downgrade the effort of subs to make it through the day. Many subs are mistreated by teachers based on lack of state certification. State certification does not make a teacher.
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
Stolaf
Old 02-26-2017, 03:14 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #14

I think standardized exams for jobs should be free to applicants or, like you said, paid for by the state. There should be no charge for state exams.
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
To Ciel
Old 02-26-2017, 03:18 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #15

In terms of algebra and geometry, I can help you online if you'd like. Exams for jobs are important but I also know that passing a test or a group of tests does not make a teacher.
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
To Mainesub
Old 02-26-2017, 03:25 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #16

I agree with you. Testing is not everything. I just think that in addition to having great classroom management skills, subs should know the basics of reading, writing and math. I did not say that subs should know how to find the area under curves, a skill known as integration in calculus. I simply said that subs should be educated people. A person replacing a regular teacher should be proficient in the basics.
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
harpadzo harpadzo is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member

harpadzo
 
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 26
New Member
To Truthy
Old 02-26-2017, 03:28 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #17

Politics is the main reason why the education system is in bad shape.
harpadzo is offline   Reply With Quote
stolaf stolaf is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member

stolaf
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 52
Junior Member
Roasted Sub
Old 02-28-2017, 03:30 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #18

I agree. But even certified teachers can be snubbed by regular teachers.
Unless the regular classroom teacher has also been a sub, they have no idea of the different situations subs have to deal with. I think that it would be a great idea if regular teachers had to sub on a different campus once or twice. This experience might help them in their planning and procedures for subs. It would make them appreciate the effort that most subs make, certified or not.
In the district where I now work, subs receive no feedback from the school or the teacher. Constructive feedback would be very useful in improving a sub's effectiveness.
Dr. Rod Page, district superintendent and former Secretary of Education once said that a certification was just a piece of paper. I agree that teaching is a talent and comes from the heart.
stolaf is offline   Reply With Quote
YayaSub YayaSub is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Full Member

YayaSub
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Full Member

Old 02-28-2017, 06:58 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #19

Good reminder to distinguish between short-term and long-term subs. In my district, only certified teachers may take longer assignments. This is as it should be, as they do take on all of the planning, grading, parent communication, etc. that I do not as a short-term sub. I completely respect the education the certification represents. I do not consider myself an equal replacement of the teacher, although I give my best effort each day.
YayaSub is offline   Reply With Quote
Comadrita Comadrita is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 102
Full Member

Comadrita
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 102
Full Member

Old 03-03-2017, 11:28 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #20

In California, they do require three letters of recommendation, a TB test, passing of a basic skills test (CBEST) and preferably experience. Plus a criminal backround check, fingerprinting. Why, pretty soon, they'll ask for blood samples and DNA. Actually the state of California enforces very strict credentialing standards. That is why I am still a substitute teacher instead of a fully credentialed one. UGH..I can't pass one CSET, boo hoo. The bar is high here in California and the student population is no piece of cake either.
Comadrita is offline   Reply With Quote

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
Substitute Teachers
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:30 PM.

Copyright © 2017 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net