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Not believe in the virus?
Old 07-23-2020, 07:53 PM
  #1

On another board someone mentioned that many of her parents "don't believe in the virus". Please help me to understand this mindset. How can one fail to see the result of this disease? Look at all these people who have died and many, many more whose lives will forever be altered because there is permanent damage to their body caused by the virus.

Is this the same crowd who refuses to wear a mask because it goes against their personal freedom? I'm not trying to start a political frenzy here. I just honestly don't see how it is possible to not believe in the virus.


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We had one
Old 07-23-2020, 07:59 PM
  #2

I know we had a family at my school who told their kid as long as he didn't touch his face and washed his hands when he was supposed to, he wouldn't get and neither would anyone else. They also told him that if someone that if someone got it, it was because of "poor hygiene". I'm not sure if they still believe that or not.

It seems hard to believe that people wouldn't believe in it, but think about people who deny the Holocaust. I'm not trying to comparing the virus to the Holocaust, though they are both bad, but just think...to many (hopefully all or most of us on this board), we know the Holocaust happened. We don't doubt it at all. Yet, there are people who think it is completely fiction.

Hearing that people don't believe it, reminds me of a man who I think was from Texas who didn't believe it and went to one of those infamous COVID parties and on his death bed mentioned how he wished he took it more seriously.
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Covid
Old 07-23-2020, 08:30 PM
  #3

My DB's BFF believes it to be just a flu. That all this hype is money related. I couldn't believe that when he FBed me that, but I am worried for him. I told my 1 aunt what he said and she told me that is what my uncle thinks to. Sadly, both these men are died hard tRumpers. Not saying its because of tRump, but it is what they have in common.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:39 PM
  #4

I see people on FB who think that "they" are lying about the numbers. That, yes it's a real virus, and real people die, but at no where near the numbers being reported. It makes me sad. Those same people are usually hotly opposed to masks as well.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:54 PM
  #5

I've heard people on the radio say it's a hoax
That the yearly flu is just as bad, but schools and businesses don't get shut down, etc.

I guess they don't know anyone personally who has been affected? I don't get it, either.


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Old 07-23-2020, 09:10 PM
  #6

I think they are in the denial phase of grief. When someone close to them gets the virus, they will move onto to bargaining. Then acceptance. Unfortunately, until they know someone effected, they will grasp onto conspiracy theories to deal with the societal changes.

I have come to acceptance that we will likely lose 4 times the current death count before this dwindles.
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I see it too
Old 07-23-2020, 09:30 PM
  #7

I also do not understand how people don't believe in the virus. I guess those people haven't been directly affected so they just don't see it. It is scary that they don't take preventative measures seriously.
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Old 07-23-2020, 09:39 PM
  #8

My grandfather never believed that germs were a thing.

Of course, he was also born in the early 1900ís.
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:16 PM
  #9

I'm originally from a rural farm town. Many former friends from HS, who I'm still friends with on FB, have posted tons of stuff about it being blown out of proportion by the media. Other than one who has gone totally off of the deep end with conspiracy theories, I don't think they don't think it's real, they just think it's not that big of a deal and it's all media hype. It's really common for people to point out that thus far it's only impacted 1% of their county, for example. Lots of, "Why are we shutting down for a virus that only impacts 1%, and then many of those people only have mild cases?"

If you're not someone who watches or pays attention to the news, I could easily see how you could think it's not that big of a deal. Of all of the people I know, including just very casual acquaintances, only one person has had a confirmed case (a teacher at my school). She had a mild case. I pay attention to the news and all of the stats (probably too much these days, honestly), so I've heard all of the horror stories and I know what's going on, but if I didn't, I'd probably be wondering what all of the hype is about.

I have two teammates who think this is just not serious at all. They're both young. One falls more into what I described in my first paragraph. She's from a similar location and her beliefs still line up with many who are making the "media is blowing this out of proportion" argument. The other is more someone who just doesn't pay attention to the news.

A lot of people at my school/in my district seem to not be too concerned and I think that's why- they don't watch/read the news, follow the governor's press conferences, etc. We had a meeting about reopening last week and many of the teachers were legitimately shocked about all of the precautions we'd be taking. I presume they haven't been really following what's going on and didn't realize things have gotten worse.
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:17 PM
  #10

I agree, i dont understand how a disease that has killed almost 150k in the us in less than a year can constantly be compared to flu that kills between 10 & 60 k a year.


I find it truly sad that the answer often seems to be that the president said so.


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Old 07-24-2020, 01:54 AM
  #11

The biggest "conspiracy" that I am hearing right now is that the numbers are greatly inflated. They "know" people that are tested and their results show that they took four tests or that anyone that comes into the hospital is counted as Covid. I am so sick of people having to read more into this than what it is. This is a pandemic. Listen to the scientists/doctors. Look at examples from other countries and do what they have done. Just wear the mask for several months and stop all the griping!
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:48 AM
  #12

One teacher at my school said it’ll disappear in November (so is politically motivated). Another teacher won’t wear a mask because he’s a libertarian. I’m in Texas. But my school is in a very rural area, so people there are less likely to know someone affected.

I think someone else at the school had someone in their family get conflicting test results, so they don’t trust testing either.

I’m new at the school (and it’s a “dream” position), so I don’t want to raise a fuss about it.

Last edited by bison06; 07-24-2020 at 03:49 AM.. Reason: ETA detail
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I have a friend whoís a cattle rancher.
Old 07-24-2020, 04:04 AM
  #13

She only believes in hers immunity. If we all just get out there and get exposed, weíll develop antibodies against the virus. You canít make her understand that because itís new, there arenít that many people with antibodies against it yet. Many will die first.
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Masks
Old 07-24-2020, 04:46 AM
  #14

Those who do not wear masks or wear them improperly are doing no good for anyone!
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:01 AM
  #15

They'll only believe it when they get it or someone they know gets it and gets sick from it.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:44 AM
  #16

I live in a town / small city is south eastern NM. Itís a huge mindset of disbelief here. Our city council and local governments just voted that police will not be enforcing any of the governorís orders ďas related to the pandemic.Ē

They just donít believe itís any worse than the flu. I fear the worst. I am in the extreme minority for being cautious and believing it is deadlier than the flu. We are considered a retirement community, too. We went from having 20 New cases over the span of three months to having 200 cases in the span of about a month.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:45 AM
  #17

Do I think #s are somewhat inflated? Yes

BUT I also think the virus is real and get annoyed at people who won't wear a damn mask!

I have one friend while refuses to wear one. I have another who is shocked when she sees someone we know not wearing one.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:01 AM
  #18

My dad thinks This way. It is heart breaking. Itís not that he doesnít ďbelieveĒ in it, but he think the risks are overblown and not worth changing the way people live, work, etc. wonít wear a mask. Wonít stay home. Thinks it is a means to overthrow Trump and will The hype disappear in after the election. He even had a good friend die from Covid, but he still is convinced itís only because the man was 80 and in poor health to begin with.

It has caused so much tension in our family because he refuses to see reason.
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Pandemic's don't disappear when convenient...
Old 07-24-2020, 06:06 AM
  #19

Bison06, I am right there with you. Just this past week, while the Boy Scouts were meeting I was talking with two of the other parents. One is a health care worker, the other works in banking. The bank teller believes that this is all hype, that the numbers are inflated to push a political agenda, that it will disappear by November, and that he hated wearing masks, and all the other protocols that he has to follow at work. He also thought that the fact we are all wearing masks and socially distancing at the meeting (no more than three adults per big 10 foot round table) was also stupid.


Nothing the health care worker was telling him would change his mind either.



There are some people out there who very much suffer from what psychologists call 'Confirmation Bias' and I think it is a survival mechanism for people when they can't face reality because it is inconvenient for them.


Sadly, there isn't much you can do to change these people's minds. Personally, I just hope and pray everyday, that I will not lose another person I know to this virus.


Stay safe all!
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:09 AM
  #20

I am expected to return to school with a bunch of adults who think COVID is blown out of proportion. They are only mask wearers so they can get into stores and such. They gather in mixed groups and share food. Personally, I donít want to be in the same space as these people. If these are the habits I am aware of, what else do they do?

I donít consider myself paranoid about this Virus, just careful.

I can only hope they stay out of my classroom!
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:10 AM
  #21

My father-in-law believes it is all fake and a political move. He lives in a very rural area that hasn't seen many cases. In fact, he is so convinced that it is all fake that he and MIL are going to a very high risk state to go to the beach next week. DH and I are extremely worried about this decision, because MIL is not in good health, but FIL absolutely refuses to change his mind.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:45 AM
  #22

I signed out to respond but I am a longtime senior member. I was at school about 3 weeks ago to drop off some paperwork and pick up a few things to work on. The superintendent, business manager, and I visted a bit about our summet and of course Covid came up. Our superintendent was very strong in his conviction that Covid is a political tactic by the media and it isn't anywhere near as bad as the media makes it out to be. He refuses to wear a mask and thinks all the shutdowns are a joke. Business manager agreed that all the Covid shutdowns and regulations are politically motivated and masks are unnecessary because Covid is just the flu. He also said he would refuse to wear one if our state required it, and our Governor refuses to mandate masks. The school secretary joined in and agreed with these guys. The conversation was very politically charged. I left very quickly and felt very uncomfortable.

Last week our superintendent sent out an email informing us that a meeting had been scheduled for this week to discuss and create a plan to open school this fall. The planning committee included the principal, superintendent, 1 HS teacher who is also a coach, and the school board president. On Wednesday the district announced that an emergency school board meeting is scheduled for Wednesday next week to approve a Covid-19 School Opening Plan. I expect that we will be 100% in person with very few safety precautions that most likely will not be implemented or enforced. The cases in our area are higher now than they have ever been and the number of new cases increase every day. We set a new record 2 days this week. To say I am concerned and afraid to go back is an understatement with these people as our leaders.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:08 AM
  #23

I am honestly torn. Please don’t flame. This is just my brain rolling around.

is the virus real? Yes I believe it is
Is the virus deadly? Yes I believe it is to some

What I’m not sure about:

Is the virus more deadly than the flu?
If flu numbers were reported the same way would we be
afraid in the same manner?
If the virus is so deadly why are some business allowed to
be open. While others are forced to close?
why haven’t there been more illness in those service industries that
have stayed open?

What is confusing:

Conflicting information from media trying to prove this or
that for their own agenda
Conflicting data from various “Authorities”

I honestly don’t know who or what to trust.
I will take precautions, wear a mask, and be reasonable.

Last edited by javamomma; 07-24-2020 at 07:46 AM..
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There are some who do not see it...
Old 07-24-2020, 07:14 AM
  #24

I know people who live upstate where there are way fewer cases. They wanted their section of the state opened up sooner than their governor wanted to open it. They believe that their cases came from "city people".

I have another friend who trains people and is a big gym user. He accuses our governor, who is a runner and an athlete himself, of having some sort of vendetta against gyms. He feels that the strong immune system gym users tend to have will fight the virus effectively if they get infected. I guess he isn't watching the same news reports I am of younger people getting sick, being on ventilators and passing away (at a lesser rate, but it's still happening) without having any health issues that would cause them to get so severely ill.

Ventilation is key. The virus been known to spread more quickly indoors than outside. That's why we have outdoor dining in my state, but not indoors.

I think people who choose not to watch the news reports and who live in places where the virus is not currently raging, can believe it is just like the flu. Once you know people personally affected, like I unfortunately have, or live in an area where it is surging, like I have been, you might tend to think differently. And I resent when people like that call others "sheep". I am very capable of thinking for myself and interpreting the evidence, and the evidence is telling me the virus is real.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:18 AM
  #25

They believe that numbers are being inflated for political reasons. They believe that 98% of people who get it, recover. They can't do the math to figure out how many people will die if everyone in the country gets it and 2% die. They believe that only the elderly and infirm die from it. They think that stories about lasting effects from COVID-19 are media scare tactics. They believe that they never got a flu shot and still didn't die from the flu. They don't realize that they are protected by everyone else who gets a flu shot and they don't believe the numbers that say that coronavirus has a higher mortality rate.

Hope this isn't too political, but I believe this is the inevitable result of a constant "fake news" mantra. People believe what they want to believe and write everything else off as "fake news."
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:33 AM
  #26

Truthfully, I think that if I had been more adversely affected or lost my means of paying my bills I might be on that side of the fence also. I think that Java mama has some good points and some points that many people who are wearing masks and believe the virus is real are still feeling in the back of their heads.

Many of the people that I see posting antivirus information or business owners who are closed due to virus issues or people who have lost their wages. They are angry. They want some action. And I agree that most of them have not been personally affected in anyway by the virus.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:36 AM
  #27

No flames, but just a couple of answers. The flu kills up to 60,000 people in the U.S. annually. Covid has killed 140,000+ in just 6 months. It is much more deadly than the flu.

Some business are allowed to stay open because they are essential. For example, I know people get mad because Target or Wal-Mart stayed open, but smaller clothing shops didn't. People don't understand that in some communities, Target or Wal-Mart may be the only grocery store. Or the only pharmacy. Or the only store within walking distance or on a public bus line. So it seems unfair from a business owner's standpoint, but if you start by asking, What are the essential needs and how do people access those? It clears up the mystery pretty fast.

I was talking with a friend who lives in a very rural area. She said people around her refuse to wear masks/social distance because they don't believe the numbers are legitimate. That's because they have so few cases, most of them don't know anyone infected.

The problem with Covid is that you go from having no cases to having too many cases pretty fast. These people won't understand until it is too late.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:42 AM
  #28

Quote:
The flu kills up to 60,000 people in the U.S. annually. Covid has killed 140,000+ in just 6 months. It is much more deadly than the flu.
. Something that I have seen that in all honestly, I believe is that these numbers are inflated. If someone dies in a car crash and has covid, it is listed as a covid death. I have heard all kinds of stories around that idea. If that is true, how many people ACTUALLy died of Covid? How can we know?
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:44 AM
  #29

Quote:
If someone dies in a car crash and has covid, it is listed as a covid death.
But, where are you hearing this from? It wouldn't make any sense to do that. I have never seen where that has actually happened, but I know people cite this as an example all the time. What is your source for this?

ETA: Oh, here I found this article on Snopes. Apparently in Florida there was one case where a man on a motorcyle was killed and his death was initially listed as Covid. But it was removed. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fl...t-covid-death/

I think that is the exception to the rule, however. How many invalid deaths like that would you have to have listed for the numbers to reach 140,000? And most scientists/public heath officials suggest the numbers being reported are likely too low. Anyone who dies at home without having been diagnosed with Covid would not be counted as a Covid death either, unless there was an autopsy that shows it contributed to their death. There are a lot of cases like that, as well. I think the 140,000 figure is close to accurate.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:08 AM
  #30

Quote:
If someone dies in a car crash and has covid, it is listed as a covid death.
This is exactly the kind of misinformation that fuels the notion that it's a myth. People post this stuff but they don't actually have any data to support this idea.

I don't doubt that mistakes are sometimes made in the data. In my state, sometimes they correct a number and explain why it was corrected. Usually it's a case of an infection being reported twice because they were tested in two different places.

I think the death count is quite accurate. Now, it's possible that the infection rate is vastly underreported and that would affect the mortality rate numbers, but I don't think 147,000 dead nationwide is any kind of inflated number or any kind of hoax.
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About this...
Old 07-24-2020, 10:28 AM
  #31

it was because of "poor hygiene".

So, why are health care workers who are fastidious about being germ free dying of COVID 19?

I partly blame school boards who allow religious beliefs to be taught as science and fail to teach the real scientific method and how it shows the best explanations for how things work to their students. If they understood the scientific method, they would understand vaccines, how viruses spread and be able to know the difference between a scientific theory and a theory meaning a hunch.

Unlike the '50s when we faced polio. Our parents trusted science and a lot of us are here today because of their willingness to go with the experts' advice.

*And I do believe it is real. When my best friend is searching 24/7 for more refrigerated trucks to sell and sent to the city to take bodies to be buried, when he has to do this for months. It is real. BTW-he is a conservative republican. Why would he lie and why is he so exhausted if it is fake?
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:58 AM
  #32

I want to make sure you know that I believe the virus is real. I have social distanced, wear my mask in public, and I haven't been to a store other than a grocery store since March. I only go for groceries when I need them.

However, I can also see the other side of the coin. I have a healthy distrust of government interference and also of human nature. Although I can't say where these stories come from (I do not sit around all day studying the virus) I have read and heard of multiple situations where hospitals/health care/public organizations have cateogorized deaths or illnesses as covid in order to recieve additional funding. Do I believe that is happening? Absolutely I do. Humans and corporations are full of people who only see the bottom line and will do what they can get away with in order to make it the best they can. Do I have any idea if our death number is significantly impacted by those situations? None at all-I wouldn't hazzard a guess, but I know they are there. So these people who are trying to invalidate a virus are bumping those numbers significantly based on that belief. Who is right? WHo really knows? Truthfully, I don't think any of us regular people will ever have a true idea.

I am going to err on the side of caution. I would like to keep my friends and family as long as possible, no matter what.
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:52 PM
  #33

In my state they started reporting "deaths AMONG people with covid 19" and "deaths DUE to covid 19" separately after a big stink with a man who was positive essentially drank himself to death was counted as a covid death. The difference between the two is currently 141. If other states aren't differentiating, it could add up between all 50 states, but not likely enough to make a big dent in that 140,000 number.

I do think we won't know the true death rate until there is constant mass testing. Currently, most people who are asymptomatic are being missed, plus people whose symptoms are so mild they assume they have something else, and people who just don't have easy access to testing. I guess now it seems like the "constant mass testing" is just never going to happen.

IMO that's the only way out of this- constantly testing people and doing aggressive contact tracing. Otherwise we're waiting on a vaccine which it seems many people have resigned themselves to already. I've heard absolute best case scenario, a vaccine is widely available next June. I don't get why no one is working on other solutions- we're really okay with doing this for another year while we just hope for a vaccine? And that's BEST case scenario- what if it's much longer than that? 4 years or more like other vaccines?
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:41 PM
  #34

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But, where are you hearing this from? It wouldn't make any sense to do that. I have never seen where that has actually happened, but I know people cite this as an example all the time. What is your source for this?
I've heard it from family members who are credible people. They believe in the virus, are doing the the right things, and have lost a loved on from something else. Covid was part of the equation, but not necessarily the cause of death.

It makes sense to do this because they get more $$$. This comes directly from medical professionals that are on the front line.

Those scenarios are what lead me to believe deaths have been inflated. BUT I still think it's more deadly than the flu and we need to protect ourselves.
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:57 PM
  #35

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It makes sense to do this because they get more $$$. This comes directly from medical professionals that are on the front line.
Since so far the only sources anyone has cited for this is credible family members or simply a distrust of government, I looked to see what I could find. In short:

1. Yes, hospitals get more money for Covid patients. There was a 20% add-on in the CARES Act for Medicaid/Medicare patients.

2. It's important to understand that increase is ONLY for Medicaid/Medicare patients. Patients who have private insurance don't qualify for the increased payments. The Reuters article about NYC says only 16% of New Yorkers are enrolled in Medicare. So hardly everyone.

3. Hospitals get the payment also for any patient who is uninsured. The same Reuters article says that's about 10% of NYC's population. (Think about 10% of people not having insurance!!)

4. COVID is more expensive to treat than the flu or pneumonia. Patients who are severely sick can be in the hospital for a month or more. They can be on the ventilator for a month or more.

5. Every news article I found cited no evidence that hospitals anywhere in the country are inflating the death rate to get more money. If they are doing this, then someone knows about it and eventually the truth would come out. So far, no actual evidence has come out.

6. Given that hospitals in hotspots rapidly fill ICUs and their available beds; and given that in the hotspots like Houston now (and NYC before), bring in refrigerated trucks to store the dead because the morgues overflow, it seems likely the number is NOT inflated. In fact, most scientists think it's likely an undercount.

7. Many hospitals had to cancel elective surgeries and routine procedures to deal with COVID, meaning they were not making money from their traditional sources. Since most people have private insurance and elective surgeries are profitable, why would they lie about COVID to get that money instead?

Heres the Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN22I2KR

Here's a Politifact article: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...D-19-payments/

Here's Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/me...ovid-patients/

The reason I took the time to write all this is because it's important that we don't spread rumors and misinformation about a deadly global pandemic. It's possible that some hospitals are trying to make money off this. But it's not likely and it's not going to be a widespread fraud. I'm sorry we've reached the point in this country where we don't trust our government or our scientists. I've got my reasons why that is, but I can save that for the politics board.
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Old 07-24-2020, 05:18 PM
  #36

I'd like to see statistics of how many patients who died of covid are on Medicaid or Medicare.

Sometimes I think actual front line people working in field or directly affected by virus give better data than statistics. We all know the same set of data can be skewed to meet the needs of the presenter!
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:04 PM
  #37

Yes, it's possible that some deaths may have erroneously been listed as Covid, but I'm sure that many people died of Covid that were not listed as such, especially during the beginning when testing wasn't as universal, so I'm sure the numbers balanced out. I believe that the overall death rate is higher this year compared to last year, not counting Covid, which would indicate that there were uncounted deaths.

In many cases, people with other risk factors have died from Covid, but I don't see why listing Covid as their cause of death is inaccurate; what the CDC knows is that Covid has a worse effect on those that have other factors. That doesn't lessen the risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...d%20mortality.
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Old 07-25-2020, 04:03 AM
  #38

My husband and Son-in-law are both front line workers. DH is a RN that has been taking 12 hour Sunday shifts on the COVID unit (usually works in management) because they canít find enough healthy nurses to cover the shifts. My SIL Is a nurse on the COVID team at another hospital. Both say that the stories of deaths being reported as COVID deaths falsely are bulls#$t.

They both say that a small amount might have occurred in a very corrupt facility somewhere, but then those very few cases travelled the internet rumor mill and morphed into a large number. There is a very strict protocol that deaths must be reported, especially for Medicare patients. (My DHís normal job is dealing with Medicare documentation) They must report comorbidities and have documentation. Might a very corrupt system fake the documentation? It is possible, but then they risk losing all kinds of funding, fines and criminal prosecution. DH said that the risk way out ways the benefits.

They both have said that deaths are probably being under reported. People die. They were not tested and cause of death is attributed to a pre existing condition (that would not have killed them without the COVID) or old age or pneumonia.

We live in a rural area of Indiana. Many people ďdonít believe in itĒ. Our county is doing horrible with following guidelines. Our county is currently a hotspot. The CDC was here last week studying our countyís number and trying to figure out the reason our numbers are so high.

As far as all the ďhealth care workersĒ saying it isnít worse than the flu etc., I have seen this in the public comments of our health departmentís and school Facebook pages. I then look at the health care workerís profile. I have found receptionists, chiropractic office workers and nurses that work in areas far removed from COVID units.

Ughhhh.... I wish people would just wear a mask so that my family members could stop risking their lives to take care of these deniers.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:09 PM
  #39

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I know we had a family at my school who told their kid as long as he didn't touch his face and washed his hands when he was supposed to, he wouldn't get and neither would anyone else. They also told him that if someone that if someone got it, it was because of "poor hygiene". I'm not sure if they still believe that or not.
It sounds like you are talking about something that was being said last spring by a family? In all fairness (because several people have commented on this in this thread), when COVID-19 first hit my area big time, it was presented in this way. Don't touch your face, wash your hands frequently (in other words, practice good hygiene), and you should be safe. Hopefully the family has a better understanding of this. I think most of us really do by now. A lot has changed about what we know since before schools shut down last spring.

On the other hand, if you are truly talking about someone's current thoughts about how to avoid COVID-19 and this is the entirety of their understanding, then I have no words.
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