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PBIS Crisis
Old 03-09-2019, 04:22 PM
 
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because we all complain about this- it is a huge vent on our board. Finally a county is recognizing it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-B7dE1wo0QFeyE


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Old 03-09-2019, 05:29 PM
 
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Couldn't agree with this article any more!!
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:31 PM
 
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Thank you for posting this.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:37 PM
 
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Wow. Could the pendulum finally be swinging back? Thank you for posting this.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:50 PM
 
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Here’s my issue though; teachers have been screaming for years about these issues. Why did it have to get to the “crisis” point to be heard?

And, now, the excuse is, “these kids have had trauma in their lives so we need to allow for that.” No, we need to teach them that their trauma is not a reason to punch, hit, choke and torment others.

I’m not holding my breath for changes any time soon. Districts fear parents so unless and until parents (like those in this article) speak up nothing will change. And I don’t know about your districts, but in my district, parents aren’t speaking up.


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Old 03-09-2019, 06:13 PM
 
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Something similar happened in my district recently. Wow I didn't realize other schools were also speaking directly to the board and on the record. Its like a domino effect I guess. At our school board meeting parents also spoke and backed up the teachers.
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PBIS Crisis...
Old 03-09-2019, 06:22 PM
 
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I read that article this morning and saved it to print for my administration to read (smile!)
It's a sad state of affairs, isn't it? Teachers are desperate to teach, to do their jobs, but teaching conditions so demoralizing that they not only can't do their jobs, but they are stressed to the max and on the verge of quitting the profession. And to make it worse, that situation was created by the "powers that be" who won't listen to the voices of the people it is affecting the most. So sad...
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Thanks for the article.
Old 03-09-2019, 07:19 PM
 
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I forwarded the link. If peeing on lunches was the worst PBIS helped our school become, I'd be a happy lady.
I wish there was a way I could add more to their list of bad behaviors rewarded. Outright violence, death threats, disrespect, disgusting sexual stuff I've heard for the 1st time ever even. I am not super naive either. Some have called it peanut butter is swell in a monotone voice or prison bound in school. I vote for the latter.
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Pbis
Old 03-09-2019, 07:34 PM
 
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And isn’t it interesting that no one listened to the teachers that this was a bogus program, but once the parents attack it, now everyone is paying attention.

No one in their right mind could have thought this was effective. In real life there are ALWAYS consequences for your behavior....good and bad.
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Crisis in the classrooms
Old 03-09-2019, 08:20 PM
 
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Positive Behavior Interventions and Supports system when students misbehave or act out. With PBIS, students are placed in intervention programs, counseling, and alternative programs before a suspension or expulsion is recommended. Teachers say it's rare that a student ever receives support to address their issues. In most cases, they're sent back to class after a brief trip to the office. In some instances, teachers say they are held to answer for why they sent the student, rather than dealing with it themselves.

I live in Montana (small rural area)not only do we have to deal with PBIS we also have MBI (montana behavior iniative). Neither one of these work and I have yet to see it truly work in any school although according to some it does.

Here we are told to keep the student in class, we are not allowed to send to hall or office. Supt/principal is a narcisstic moron who can't be troubled to do his job. If he does see the student he blames the teacher for ANY behavior issue.

Teachers told stories about being cussed at, ignored by administrators and evacuating entire classrooms because of one student's tantrum.

I haven't had to evacuate a class so for you teachers that have I feel badly for you. However even in rural Montana we as teachers have to deal with the constant disrespect, the sexual innuendos, farting, spitting, loud animal noises, screaming, defiance, cussing, etc.

"PBIS improves social, emotional and academic outcomes for all students, including students with disabilities and students from underrepresented groups," according to PBIS.org.

In a perfect world perhaps this would work, but we don't live in that world. Here we have administrators that don't want to be bothered and SOME teachers who just want to make excuses for these miscreants, the poor babies!!

One of the problems? There are no consequences, teachers said. Conversely, students are often rewarded or even thanked after acting out.

HOW TRUE!! and really what are they learning from this? I believe not only are they learning that there are no consequences, they are even learning how to work the system. You know a few tears, BIG lies and promises go a long ways here.

"At the end of the day, if we don't have kids understanding that there's going to be consequences for their actions when they grow up and they leave our schools, they're going to be going directly to prison," he said. "They're going to expect somebody to give them a candy and say, 'Hey, it's going to be OK.'"

Exactly what I say!! We are doing a huge disservice by letting these students get away with this. Example: Right now we have 4-5 8th grade boys that have been acting out every since they have been in school. Same basic behaviors with some new ones thrown in. They steal valuable teachng time away from other students....and they are being rewarded! These boys are old enough to make better choices however parents and admin and SOME teachers make excuses for them....you know they have such a hard life, you know his dad is a drug addict, you know their dad & mom were in prison, yadda yadda yadda

I am NOT saying I don't care about these students. I do, but I also want them to grow up and be responsible adults. The majority of these behaviors are by choice. They choose to do them. Their emotional issues should be dealt with for sure, BUT just what are they learning?

I know I was not ALLOWED to behave this way in school.....why are they??

What is the answer to this crisis?? I don't know, but I wish I did. Here in Montana there is an extreme shortage of teachers so I am told...you would think that the community (admin., parents, school board, even co-workers) would treat us better.

JUST LETTING OFF SOME STEAM


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Thank you!!
Old 03-09-2019, 09:56 PM
 
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I am so glad I am hearing all this! The teacher in charge of our Behavior Intervention plans made me feel like a huge failure as a teacher because I did not want to keep the boy in class that avoids work and wants to go home by having pseudo seizures for 45 minutes straight, flings out of his chair, rolls around on the floor, bangs his head on the floor and poops or pees or both in his pants, in my room while trying to teach math! Or he tries to cut himself with scissors and says he wants to kill himself or hurt others. He is 4th grade 5 ft tall and over 200lb. He could do damage! She told me, “It’s a teach to! He is not the hardest student you will ever have! Teach your students to ignore him!” Why do they have to put up with that while trying to learn. Why do they have to have a sub par education because their teacher is so distracted?
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:48 AM
 
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Just asking....

If you are cutting major components out of any program or tweeking a program to implement it in a way you prefer, are you really implementing the program?

Was PBIS really being implemented or was it a pick-n-choose of what administration liked under a false name of PBIS?
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PBIS article
Old 03-10-2019, 05:55 AM
 
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Wow this article is amazing.

So much word.

Although we don't technically have PBIS in my building anymore, they system we use is very similar - no consequences.

About the only difference I can see is that there are fewer rewards. That may be a reflection on the age of our students, though.

It also makes me feel better in a way that my school is not the only one where teachers are penalized for sending students out of the room. We too have students that have learned to game the system

Like Greyhound Girl, I don't really see the parents at my school or even in my district coming to together like this.

Most dissatisfied parents speak their displeasure by taking their children out of our school system.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:57 AM
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Yeah,
Old 03-10-2019, 06:09 AM
 
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It's completely crazy just on its face. Naturally, PBIS emboldens dysfunctional kids to keep pushing the envelope, as it says in that article, and it sabotages other kids' education. I actually think that's one of the big problems in education as a whole today: we're expected to spend too much time and energy catering to kids who don't care about school and are never going to do so, while expecting kids who care to just "teach themselves."

I also think PBIS is based on a false premise: the notion that a school has to EITHER administer consequences OR teach values and self-monitoring skill. It's clearly possible to do both.


I always have to laugh whenever I read story in which a school brags about a huge decline in referrals and suspensions after implementing PBIS. We all know the sleight of hand at play there. It's an insanely lazy approach to addressing a problem: let's not do anything about the actual issue; instead, let's solve the problem by no longer calling misbehavior such.
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Why we used to call it
Old 03-10-2019, 08:05 AM
 
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Pure BullS**t In Session.
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Great article!
Old 03-10-2019, 10:30 AM
 
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It is interesting that parents were able to get the ball rolling in the right direction after teachers' efforts failed. Maybe the teachers really got the parents stirred up which means they won!
At 1 time, we were told to jump on the bandwagon, transfer out, or move. Now I am pretty sure our P even agrees with Clarity and the rest of us. He just doesn't want to admit it or deal w/ the problems. It is fizzling out at our school.
I am lmao at Clarity's acronym as I have never heard that 1, but will now have a new name for it.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:02 AM
 
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I have been teaching for 9 years and have only worked under PBIS. I will say that my current admin makes it A LOT more workable than previous admin, because we do the rewards AND consequences. Previous admin only did the rewards part, often with the most poorly behaved children getting most of the rewards, and it was a disaster.

I am curious about what things looked like before PBIS? Did you send kids to the office? What happened when they were there? What are the consequences that you saw actually worked? I know when I was growing up, it was "if you get in trouble at school you'll be in twice as much trouble at home." It seems that parents these days just aren't that supportive, so you can no longer use that strategy. At least at my school, we've also done away with much of the "fluff"/"fun stuff," so there isn't much to take away as a consequence.

I know some people have posted that "back in the day" the worst behaved students would be in self-contained sped programs. While I'm sure that's true for a tiny percentage of students, we have at least 50 such children in my school. No way would 50+ kids from ONE school be in some sort of (super expensive) self-contained program. We also still do have a behavior program in the district.

Even in just my 9 years, I've also seen kids come in with worse behaviors and worse trauma every year. Would whatever the "old" system was really work for these children? I'm not saying it wouldn't- and at this point I think most of are willing to try anything- I'm just genuinely asking.
I just don't know that I see any clear answer that would truly help this problem.

Last edited by Haley23; 03-10-2019 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:30 PM
 
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Will PBIS die like 'Zero Tolerance' has?
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:18 PM
 
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It seems that the students who are “underrepresented” are those that quietly sit back while chaos reigns.

Tragic.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:01 PM
 
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For a consequence to be effective, it needs to be certain, severe, and immediate. It's easy to run a stop sign. Nobody ignores a "Do Not Enter, Severe Tire Damage sign"

PBIS spreads consequences across several weeks, making teachers spend lots of time in clerical record-keeping. No longer do we have Billy get an immediate response. Instead, we have several redirections, a conference with student, contacting parents, a team meeting, and then a minor consequence as a last resort. Billy won't get that detention until a week after he's disrupted class for the third time.

The consequence may not happen. If it does it will take several repeat offenses over a long period of time. When it happens, it will be a minor inconvenience.

There's nothing to STOP a kid in the middle of a disruption, only a procedure that takes place after class is over.
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