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Licking my wounds, really upset.. need to choose resign or laid off

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Licking my wounds, really upset.. need to choose resign or laid off
Old 03-19-2018, 03:54 PM
 
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So the *bleeping* nightmare keeps getting uglier. I feel like my work "marriage", which I thought was awesome, is now going through an ugly divorce out of nowhere. Like work husband "cheated" on me and now his lawyer is being awful to me.

So I was told today by the HR lady that because I am on an improvement plan, and they are downsizing considerably, the first people to go are 1st year and people on improvement plans.Not enough people retiring (I don't know, I think she lies)
I didn't understand because she doesn't have enough spots for me this yearI but how do they know she won't have a spot for me the following year? Not that I would take it.
So because I am on an improvement plan, I would be laid off (was this going to happen this year?I'm confused, what would have happened if I wasn't on an improvement plan? Is that why they pursued this???!!

Anyway she was trying to "sell" me to resign so I could "save face" and no one would know I was on an improvement plan (I guess it goes by seniority.) I told her that ship had sailed when Prince accidentally put the meeting on the school public google calendar. Or get laid off (and get unemployment).
The thing is, she still jerky.
I asked her if she counsels her principals to start an improvement plan without having a conversation first? She said she always says that and that Prince had said that he has several conversations about with me about concerns about me, which is an outright lie. He said something off the cuff in an informal meeting with me and three other people that "oh by the way, no offense to you, but I'm going to try to rotate your responsibilities to each interventionist so they can all share the responsibility. I asked "did someone complain?" He said "Yah, but it's a lightning rod job, don't worry." I asked "Will this affect my evaluation?" He said "No."

So the HR lady said after that story " see, there was conversation!!!" I said "Um no, that was an off the cuff, informal "by the way" in front of an entire team." She then asked me why I didn't ask why he didn't defend me and such? I said " I told him that noone had talked to me and I can't attend to what I don;t know about, that it wasn't fair."
This prince is a liar, and a coward. I don't get it, DO you have to lie if you're in management? He kept telling me "a teacher complained etc" about a specific instance, I talked to that person who is one of my best friends and she was horrified and really sad to see the ugly side of this prince since they really get along.I trust her because she would tell me to me face (she has at times

I am sad, that I have worked so hard and had hoped to leave on good terms. I don't know why I care but this HR lady truly believes I am a problem employee. I did tell her that questioning the honesty and the validity of my student's test scored thing really hurt, I truly value honesty. I also told her that testing, protocols, and statistics are my bread and butter. I am leaving this job for a literal research think tank. (not bragging but it makes me feel better) She said " Wow, good for you!"

I don't know, so now I have to decide resign or get laid off. I;m thinking they can pay me unemployment... but will the improvement plan haunt me? I mean it's not like it's secret anyway.....thoughts?


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Old 03-19-2018, 04:06 PM
 
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Do you plan on going back to teaching at some point? Can you negotiate with this P to give you a decent reference? If you resign, will he tell future employers about the improvement plan?

If they will require you to check the box that says you're resigned in lieu of non-renewal on applications, you're giving yourself away anyway, so I wouldn't resign unless you're sure you can check "no" on that box and P/the district will back you up.

In my area, it's very hard to get a job with a non-renewal on your record, as around here it's always due to performance. I've seen some people post that in their areas, there is no difference between laid off for budget reasons and non-renewed. Here, if you're let go for budget reasons it's called something different (RIF) and you don't have to report it as non-renewal on applications.

I would be more concerned about future employment than collecting unemployment. If you're able to secure another job, the unemployment is a non-issue. I also hear it's pretty difficult to get approved for unemployment. You'd have to prove it wasn't your fault you were let go, which would be hard to do with the improvement plan on your record.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:10 PM
 
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A few things to consider:
1) I donít know what state youíre in, but in IL, if youíre terminated you can lose your teaching license. Do NOT trust HR with this. Call your ROE and ask about this.
2) I went through something similar years ago and I let them fire me. The district flat out lied to to unemployment and I fought it and ended up winning. They had to pay me. If you go this route be prepared for a fight. The district wonít roll the first round.
3) itís HRís job to protect the district and that means protecting the principal. You never know what conversations are being had behind closed doors. He could be getting his butt handed to him.
4) please donít let this experience fester and make you bitter. Itís really easy to do. Whatever you decide to do (resign or take the termination) make peace with it and move on.
5) whatever you decide, it wonít change your answer on an application so donít let that affect your choice.
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Do you already have a job?
Old 03-19-2018, 04:11 PM
 
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If you're already hired at new job, I would not be too concerned that an improvement plan at your old job would come back to haunt you.

Are you in a state with a strong professional organization or union? It sounds to me like your improvement plan and subsequent layoff would be a grieveable issue, because it's process, not product that you'd be grieving. Union specialists would know better than me. For your own reputation, you could possibly get the union involved.


Will there be enough time between your layoff and your job start to collect unemployment? If there is, let them take the hit with your unemployment benefits. If not, and you just want to get out of there with as little fuss as possible, resign.

I don't know what's the best answer. It really depends on your personality. But HR isn't looking out for you when they encourage you to resign. If they truly thought you were a bad teacher, they would be irresponsible to do so. They are only looking out for the school district.
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Are you sure you will
Old 03-19-2018, 04:19 PM
 
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be able to collect unemployment? Here, we have one year contracts that are just "non-renewed" if we will not be back the following year. This means that we can't collect unemployment.


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I agree with Haley
Old 03-19-2018, 04:40 PM
 
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I think it's better to resign. RIF is reduction in force, which sounds like your situation. It's a good idea to ask for a letter of recommendation from your P.

Good luck with your new job- I hope you love it.
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Update- unreal
Old 03-19-2018, 05:14 PM
 
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I talked to my Union rep who was flabbergasted that we went from an Improvement Plan for filing raw tests with their chart to verify their validity to being asked to resign or be laid off. What kind of an improvement plan is that?!!! This whole thing has blown up WAY out of proportion. I told union rep that, honestly, I am worried about Prince as this is way out of character and erratic.

Union rep was also floored about the huge downsizing in the district news, she had to let me go and make a few phone calls. Is this the truth? Or is HR trying to pull one over? If I would have gotten laid off anyway since I was on an improvement plan, what does that mean for everyone else in my situation? Either way- how despicable. I told HR I needed to talk to my lawyer before I decide.

Union was pissed that HR tried to sneakily talk to me without the union rep there. This HR lady is calculating- I always feel like I'm talking to a lawyer. If I saw her in public, I wouldn't go near her, thinking she'd see something to use against me, seriously.

Union Rep is wondering if we need to call in the big union dogs and get me some sort of settlement. If my options are resign or get laid off, what do we have to lose? Plus a little light flashed onto this ridiculous process might not be a bad idea. Just bizarre and grievance worthy.

I have a job already lined up!!!!! I will be a teaching assistant and a research assistant at my PhD program while I finish up my classwork and start my dissertation. It covers full tuition and a stipend (about half of what I make) we've been saving up.

I was going to wait until the following year but I guess the universe is telling me to move now I am making the leap into academia I'll get my PhD in three years, we'll have to move to a school no one wants to go, then move back for tenure track My husband and I have been talking about this for years.

So... the University hired me because I'm pretty good at stats, assessment instruments, and norming protocols... the irony is not lost on me.
WTH are they thinking?
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Good Luck
Old 03-19-2018, 07:15 PM
 
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Your posts are bringing back unpleasant memories for me. I know how it is to comply with all requirements and think things are back on track and then be blind sided repeatedly. It is very hard to be jerked around emotionally and not know who you can trust.

I have no advice for you. Congratulations on being able to get out of there.

I try to keep a quote from Oscar Wilde in mind, "Living well is the best revenge."
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:32 PM
 
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My anecdotal tale may not be worth much but I'll share it incase you can get something from it.

I was fired, on the spot, without cause from a charter school. I had also already had been hired on at a new school so the firing didn't effect my ability to get a new job either, just like in your case. I had no trouble getting unemployment. Actually my only mistake was waiting to apply. I assumed that because I already had a new job, and thus couldn't comply with a job search in earnest, that I wouldn't qualify. Well I was wrong. It was a non issue. I ended up applying just to show the state Medicare folks that I had tried since my son got state insurance. Imagine my surprise when it was approved no problem. I didn't have to fight to get my unemployment or work hard to prove that I hadn't done anything wrong. I told them the truth of my firing. I had no write ups or issues I my employment file and I had never had a reprimand. My evals were good. They just fired me out of the blue. They called the school and got their side. I don't know what the school said, the employment development department in my state doesn't share that info as they said its confidential (you can bet your keister that I asked what reason they gave because they gave me no reason at all and I am still to this day left just inferring that it is based on my new job calling my references and calling my P to verify my years of service since the firing came right after that). There was nothing else I had to do on my end to prove my case.

So don't feel like if you need the unemployment that it's a pie in the sky idea. Don't feel like getting the lay off will kill your career either since you already have another job and you crossing over to academia any way. Talk with your rep and get all the details and make the best choice for you.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:37 AM
 
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Here are my thoughts:

1.) Being fired can come back to haunt you! Colleges and K-12 systems talk ALL the time. Your school system's superintendent is very connected to the college's president - most sit on the same nonprofits and dine at the same restaurants. Human resource directors, whom I know, chat together at monthly human resource meetings, on LinkedIn, and at other places. They talk - and I know several people who got fired and had to move out of the state to gain/country employment.

2.) "The University hired me because I'm pretty good at stats, assessment instruments, and norming protocols..." My background is in the start-up industry. My experience is that the start-ups hire the best and brightest, the companies who pay very well hire the best, and the universities hire the leftovers. Sadly, universities need warm bodies who want to work at crap pay.


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Thanks Inzok
Old 03-20-2018, 08:35 AM
 
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IN20K...
I needed to go back and re-write this.Normally I would move on and not care much about an online person's response that I will never meet, but I'm sad and vulnerable today so take this with a grain of salt.

I appreciate your thoughts on point #1

However your 2nd response left me confused : were you
1.Being supportive?
2.Giving advice?
or
3. Assuming my quote that you cited was me being conceited and I needed to be taken down a peg or two?

Trust me, my ego is barely there these days and I need to cling to every shred of dignity I can right now. Cut me a little slack please.

I am well aware I am not up for any Nobel Physics awards. So this warm body is hanging on to someone , somewhere wants me and thinks I am worth free tuition and salary.

Your second response really hurt my feelings. Moving on...
Everbody, You have no idea how grateful I am for your support. I carry you all in my heart!

Last edited by midwestread; 03-20-2018 at 09:56 AM.. Reason: wanted to add more
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:03 AM
 
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Thank you for sharing your story- it's so sad that we all seem to have a story like this if you've been teaching 10+ years.

I will keep my head held high, continue with the Improvement Plan (since that's what I do anyway) and finish with class and grace.

I swear it's times like these , although painful, make us more resilient.
My pastor says "Crises doesn't build character, crises reveals character"
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:08 AM
 
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Im sorry for triggering your trauma. It is a trauma isn't it?
Nobody walks out of life unscathed. Nobody does.

I was counseling a much younger colleague, giving her take aways from times like this.
I told her that speaking negatively about colleagues without going to them first is dangerous. It could open risk for liable and you're playing with people's lives.
You should always be an adult and have those difficult conversations, don't be a tattle tale, it will keep you limited in growth and life's opportunities.
Also, if God forbid, you are blindsided, you re-group, be firm about what your truth is, be classy and find the positives in any situation.
Thanks for the support!
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Et.Al 💖💖💖
Old 03-21-2018, 10:20 AM
 
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I talked to the HR lady and things have changed again (as they do this time of year) I am not going to be displaced should I decide to come back next year.
However, more than likely I would still be on an improvement plan.

Ok, I'll play the game because all I want to do is just get the *&^% out of there! Like all have noted, people talk and the education world is small.

The improvement plan is utterly ridiculous. No merit and it burns me inside that I have to play along...but...

The goal is that everything will work out in Academia. That this whole issue will be moot. I just want to finish strong and on a positive note and move on and as someone said "Living well is the best revenge."

(Ok, part of me would love to be published and present at a symposium someday with someone from this district saying they are reading my latest book for their PLC book study. teeehee- let me indulge in the fantasy please)

Thanks for letting me blather here lately, it is such a comfort. ��

Last edited by midwestread; 03-21-2018 at 01:28 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 03-21-2018, 12:21 PM
 
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Quote:
2.) "The University hired me because I'm pretty good at stats, assessment instruments, and norming protocols..." My background is in the start-up industry. My experience is that the start-ups hire the best and brightest, the companies who pay very well hire the best, and the universities hire the leftovers. Sadly, universities need warm bodies who want to work at crap pay.
Are you for real? Why would you choose to share this 'thought'? That seems really unkind.

I also don't think its very true. At least where I am, positions at universities are really competitive.

I'm sorry you had to deal with a comment like this at a vulnerable time, Midwestread.
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Mercy
Old 03-21-2018, 12:41 PM
 
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Quote:
2.) "The University hired me because I'm pretty good at stats, assessment instruments, and norming protocols..." My background is in the start-up industry. My experience is that the start-ups hire the best and brightest, the companies who pay very well hire the best, and the universities hire the leftovers. Sadly, universities need warm bodies who want to work at crap pay.
Talk about kicking someone when they're down. As I tell my 4th graders, kindness costs nothing.
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sorry to hear about your situation
Old 03-24-2018, 02:26 PM
 
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I was in a similar situation. My P out of the blue, wanted me to sign on to an improvement plan.This was after a year, where I did not recommend a student to skip my grade, and the parent who was buddy buddy with the P, complained non stop about me. I had a strong reputation and had been teaching in the school for more than 10 years, with only exemplar reviews from P and parents. My P said she would not give me my contract until said plan was agreed to . When I said, I wanted everything in writing including how I was to be evaluated , she said couldn't do that. So I told her I was willing to meet any goals in an improvement plan, but I wanted everything in writing. By this time, I knew I had to get out of this toxic environment so I was looking and had secured another position. When she finally asked for another meeting to discuss the improvement plan, I told her that I was not coming back. She pushed for me to tell her where I was going. I declined to tell her. It was the best move I ever made.
Move on and look forward to a new journey where hopefully you will be valued and truly appreciated. It worked for me and can work for you. Good luck!
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