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YayaSub YayaSub is offline
 
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YayaSub
 
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Inclusion
Old 12-04-2019, 04:30 AM
 
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I'm wondering how others feel about the recent push to place all Sped students in Gen Ed classrooms. As a sub, I find it very difficult to accomplish other things while trying to support those students. I assume it's even harder for the regular teacher since sub plans are often review or other easy work.

This week I had a high school.student with Tourette's. Every couple of minutes he would shout out cursing and follow it up with, "Sorry. That was a tic." Some of the things he says are quite obscene and shocking to me. What about the "rights" of the other 25 kids to have an environment conducive to learning?

I have frequently subbed in Sped classrooms, including ED, so I know and like many of these kids. Some of them accomplished a lot more academically when they spent more time in their self-contained classrooms.

I honestly don't know what I think the right answer is here. I just know in my school this is a growing problem. Curious.to hear others' thoughts.


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Tapdancesub Tapdancesub is offline
 
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:21 AM
 
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My district is similar, but most push in students have aids, so I just continue on as normal. Teachers leave me real lessons to teach not just review/filler.
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bodhimom bodhimom is offline
 
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:30 AM
 
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I am a proponent of having special Ed students in GE classes as much as possible, but I don't think so, if it affects others. That seems like common sense to me. When I was a teacher, the aides pretty much took care of most of it. I'm sure the cussing issue is very rare. As a sub, though, I wouldn't utter a word about it to anybody at the school, at all. It will come back to bite you. Let the school handle it. They might just be trying it out to see if it could work. As a sub, we don't really know what is going on. And I don't really see anything wrong with review materials. Students do this type of work even when the teacher is there, sometimes.
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YayaSub YayaSub is offline
 
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:44 AM
 
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We do have plenty of aides in the building. But another thing I run across is an aide present for four (for example) students. One child has difficulty, and the aide is quick to remove the child for a break. Then I am left alone to handle the remaining students' behaviors.

There are a few IAs that I suspect of giving those breaks to make it easier on themselves.
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MaineSub MaineSub is offline
 
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Golden Silence...
Old 12-05-2019, 02:01 AM
 
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Quote:
As a sub, though, I wouldn't utter a word about it to anybody at the school, at all.
Sound advice... at least up to a point. The current attitude and policy clearly favor special needs students at the expense of others--at least in my opinion and in the schools I've been in. But since we're not policy-makers our opinion doesn't count for much. Having said that, in my world, the question is whether the need is behavioral or academic. And, yes, I do understand those overlap. A student who struggles to learn is one thing--a student who struggles to manage his/her behavior is something else.

The point at which I will speak out is when other students I am responsible for are clearly in danger. I had an incident several years ago involving an older student physically pushing around my second graders. When I intervened I was actually "yelled at" by his aide (who was not supervising him) because he's "fragile." My defense (yes, I was required to explain what I'd done and why) including the observation that my second graders are also fragile. The only consequence from the incident was that his aide didn't speak to me for a while. Well, that's not counting the impact it had on my opinion.

Conversely, I had another situation with a perfect storm... a totally chaotic day that included no aide available to work with a special needs student I knew fairly well. I met briefly with him in the morning, explained the situation and what I needed from him. To everyone's amazement, we had a fantastic day. So while I was assured I was lucky that day, I do think the system encourages dependency.

In another situation, a student informed me that she didn't do math with the rest of the class because she needs extra help from her assigned ed-tech. I said that I understood... so maybe she could try the worksheet and if she did poorly we would throw it away after so it wouldn't count. She agreed. Another ed-tech in the room came over and criticized me noting, "We're not supposed to pressure them." I replied that I was pretty sure I knew the difference between pressure and encouragement.

The girl got two out of twenty right and she was very excited--so was I! After discussion, we decided not to throw it away but that I would leave it for Mrs. Regular Teacher with a note of explanation.

I'm not claiming I'm a hero, just pointing out that we've got this situation way out of balance with no real strategy and tactics for "mainstreaming" these students. As subs, unfortunately, we have very little opportunity to change the system and attempts to do so are made at some risk.


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bodhimom bodhimom is offline
 
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:52 AM
 
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It's sounding like this might be more of a problem in the elementary schools.
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Fractured Fractured is offline
 
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:15 AM
 
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I had two hs classes at the same school recently, they were both pull in classes so about 7 or 8 Sped students. It was an unplanned absence for the teacher, so I had no idea this was the class. I worked with the aide but when my attention was turned from the other kids they would immediately get on phones or goof off. The class sizes are smaller, but it seems like some students think they donít have to work because of the class population.
2nd class had a Sped aide and it went fine as the teacher had given them a different article to read. But if took a long time for some students to do the worksheet and we didnít get to the second half of what the teacher wanted. Again, I saw it as some students taking advantage of the class population and most of them were on their phones, but I had to give the Sped students about three times the time to finish the work.
Some kids were barely functional. I guess they are supposed to be socializing in theory.
Iíd like to see how normal teacher classes go. If thereís an aide, I usually donít have a problem. But, I didnít like the dead time I had and I canít not give them time to finish the work. It makes subbing tougher I guess.
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bodhimom bodhimom is offline
 
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:24 PM
 
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I think, perhaps, you're thinking that you can do more than you can. I only work in high school. I can present the material and encourage them, a couple of times, but if they refuse to work, that is all that I can do, and all that I do do.

That doesn't mean that I let them play on their phones, if I have told them to put them away. If there is a problem that I think is reportable, I will report it (seems some subs don't, though), if it is something that is actionable. You are not a miracle worker.

If they are flat out in my face, disrespectful, I will give them one warning and then send them out (that's the only reason I send a student out). This goes for special ed classes with few students, as well. I don't stress myself out about it.

If a student refuses to work, so what? Report it if you want to, but I don't really care. We have very little control over what is going on. Like one person on here said, the sub is rarely the problem. She can sub for one class, fall asleep, and have a stack of papers on her desk when she wakes up, and everybody still in their assigned seats, when in another class she has to be on them constantly and it is a circus (I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you get the idea).

I do the best I can, I use ideas that I get from this group, sometimes, I go above and beyond much of the time, but I know my limitations as a sub, and I think I can defend myself, if I ever need to (hasn't happened, yet).
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Fractured Fractured is offline
 
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:28 PM
 
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I have stopped fighting kids with phone use for the most part. 35 hs kids in one classroom? Of course they are going to use the phones. One of my assignments this week was to basically have them read silently for 90 minutes. There’s no way they are all going to do that. If they occasionally got on their phones, I don’t care. The schools don’t enforce the phone rules, so I’m not going to waste my time with it. Unless a kid is loudly playing music or a video or distracting other kids, I live with it. I have enough bs to deal with and zero support from security if I did report it anyway. And if it’s a person of color I usually get the racist label thrown at me. No thanks.
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bodhimom bodhimom is offline
 
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:26 AM
 
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Totally agree with fractured. I have found that many times a teacher will leave "rules," for us to enforce, but they don't enforce them themselves, and then you have a mutany on your hands.

I don't fight cell phones, anymore, either. I do exactly what fractured says.

I've had the "read," or "study," "lesson plans," also. When on a block schedule it is a nightmare. I quit schools that have block schedules. It is frustrating for the students, though they don't know why. I hated 90 minute classes even in college. It is the teachers that like block schedules, IMHO. We wanted to see our students, everyday. I think it is lazy and not in the best interest of the s's.


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luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
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Sometimes the aide is worse than the student!
Old 12-07-2019, 12:19 PM
 
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Although I agree that Sped kids can really be a drain on mainstream classes, I also have mixed feelings about assigning full-time aides to individual students in mainstream classes. Sometimes the aide can be worse than the Sped kid!

Just the other day, I was subbing in a 1st grade class. The LP made no mention of an aide or a Sped student (a problem in itself). However, a few minutes after class began, a woman walked in and sat in the back of the class. I spoke with her and found she was a para there to supervise one boy in the class. I hadn't had any problems with the boy, so I was surprised to hear this.

As it turned out, he had a bit of a problem being reactive. But that was nothing compared to the aide! Rather than sitting with the boy, she sat in the back of the room by herself while he sat on the carpet with the others, in the front of the room. The second the boy showed ANY signs of annoyance, the aide yelled out, rushed to the front of the class, and disrupted my lesson by insisting that the boy apologize and talk to the students he was sitting near. When I tried to assure her that everything was under control, she turned on me and argued with me!

I didn't have any peace until she left for a lunch break. At that point, the boy and the class normalized and things became peaceful. The boy was no problem for me. It was the aide that was over reactive and stirring up needless drama!

I've also subbed in classes with one or two extremely disruptive students and little to no backup or support. If there is an aide, they may be "too busy" to help. If I call the office, no one picks up, or if I send a student to the office, the student returns in a few minutes only to start up the same behavior all over again. I end up wasting much of my time and energy dealing with the behavior issues at the expense of the other students. It's really frustrating.

I agree that priorities are lopsided. Too often in schools, resources are wasted on indulging the disruptive students, while the others pay the price.

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 12-07-2019 at 12:40 PM..
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SubMan SubMan is offline
 
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:56 AM
 
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The other day I was having a good day subbing

Until...

A class with an inclusion student arrived (I was teaching STEM). The assignment was to make a house using Sketch-up, an app from google. Everything is fine until the inclusion student decides to scrap his plans and make a ginger bread house like two girls were.

Long story short, class needed to be evacuated from the room, the red card sent to the office, crisis team (5 adults) arrive in short order to ďnegotiateĒ with the student while the rest of the class and I stand in the hall waiting. We were still waiting when the teacher arrived to pick up the class.

Least restrictive environment? Maybe.

Loss of instructional time for 24 other students? About 30 minutes.
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bodhimom bodhimom is offline
 
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:49 AM
 
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What the heck happened?
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