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smiley75 smiley75 is offline
 
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Need Advice and help in Self Contained Classroom!!!!
Old 12-30-2009, 07:22 PM
 
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I am a first year teacher in special education teaching in a self contained classroom. My students are in the 4th, 5th and 6th grades and all have emotional disabilities and some with learning disabilities. I am having a horrible time with my academics and am extremely overwhelmed!! The instructional levels range from early 2nd grade level to 6th grade. I just can't seem to organize anything or find a good starting place. I seem to become consumed by the whole picture and just don't know where to start. I have tried different things to no avail. I want a fresh start for the 2nd semester and am looking for ideas to help get me motivated instead of being so overwhelmed and stressed! I have asked for help but haven't gotten anything specific to help me. I have thought about centers, but am not sure how to organize or get started.
I have never really struggled much with lessons before, but the wide range of abilities has just thrown me and I can't seem to regain any sense of direction. I am experiancing burnout quickly!! HELP!!!!!!!


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Old 12-31-2009, 05:29 AM
 
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smiley,
The key factor in getting anything done in a room such as the one you have... (Soap Box Rant... Multi level rooms with disabled kids CANNOT work. We don't even mix three or more grade levels of the brightest kids. And multi-age rooms here are stocked with regular ed kids, only represent 2 grade levels, and the kids are hand picked (best behaved, highest GPAs, excellent attendance, tenacious go-getters, and with cooperative parents). So, it becomes clear that the only other multi age situation is one that is the polar opposite of what you have. Might I add that many schools won't even touch the multi age concept for the bright kids. That's how difficult doing this is. Why would some ivory tower admininstrator think that our most fragile students can be thrown into a multi age, multi disability, and multi hormonal level stew and succeed?? And then they have the audacity to think that these kids should pass end of grade (AYP) tests. HA. Off soap box.) ... As I was saying, in your situation the key is a good and cooperative assistant. You must plan work for that assistant and he/she must be actively involved in that room. If not, anything and everything you do will be like banging your head against a wall. Let your assistant take over some small group teaching. Do not let your aid be a copier/filer. Betweenthe two fo you, both should be actively teaching groups or tutoing individuals throughout the day. Having that person on board is the only way to make any headway. Another key factor is to have a set schedule wherein the kids know what happens throughout the day. No guesswork, no seat of the pants stuff. Make it a routine they could carry out in their sleep. I wish you the best. I've been there. I had a working assistant and we vowed to not let the situation kill us. When the stress level rose, we huddled and renewed our vow. We worked hard, but we didn't let the room run our lives.
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self-contained
Old 12-31-2009, 06:50 AM
 
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I have a similar situation, except that it's not self-contained and no Asst. I simply have a revolving door, and that can be very bewildering! One thing that I've been trying to do that may have some potential is grouping according to levels. You could perhaps make 3 leveled groups. You take one, your Asst. takes one and the other is doing independent center work. I know the independent group will be the most difficult, but if you give them the rules, not to disturb the other groups and lots of rewards, perhaps you can get something done. Let us know how it goes. You are certainly not alone out there.
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Work on the behaviors
Old 12-31-2009, 08:04 AM
 
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Look at their goals and see what behaviors need to be met first. Most times if you get a behavior under control then the rest will come.....most times How many children and assistants do you have? Use the assistants like crazy!

Try to closely ability group as much as you can for each subject. Also, have you contacted your special ed offices? There should be a behaviorist that can come in and give you some pointers. Find out what all the kids really need (i.e. reading fluency) and then give them the skills in whole group setting and have them practice independently or with a partner if their behaviors can handle it. I loosely use the CAFE book to help me in my literacy area for this. Hope your new semester goes much better!
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Feel for you!
Old 12-31-2009, 09:11 AM
 
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Here's a good resource for reading comprehension centers that might help you.

http://fcrr.org/


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addressing academics
Old 12-31-2009, 09:51 AM
 
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When dealing with more than one grade level, I start by identifying the skills that they all need, and then differentiate from there. For example, in reading, you might want to address character, setting, drawing a conclusion, visualizing, inferencing, etc. In math, it might be fractions, multiplication, area and perimeter, decoding words in word problems, etc. Try to arrange the skills in order of importance (in most places, that's according to what's most likely to be on the state test). After the state test, address whatever is still required by the IEPs that hasn't already been covered. This way, you're teaching everyone the same skills, which helps your own sanity, but differentiating the instruction and practice so that you've addressed the different grade level's needs appropriately.
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:58 PM
 
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Even in a "gen ed" class, we have difficulty meeting all needs. here are some ideas that work for me:
1) pick a "topic" (e.g.: animals, weather, etc.)
2) find books on their reading levels on that topic. For example, I have 5 groups this week, using 4 different texts, all around a topic that matches the reading in our text. Don't know if you have a book room? The local library can help because, with students sharing, I sometimes need only 2-3 copies of the same text. Also, if you school will foot the bill, Reading A-Z is a phenomenal resource for levelled texts that you can print out.
3) listening center: our local library has books on tape. They can even be a bit above the independent reading level, if the topic is engaging enough. I give a simple graphic organizer that we've done whole group to do after listening. This is also a good center for "mixed" abilities because the more adept readers can assist the less adept by writing down what the group is saying.
4) "Concentration" type games for independent work. Even my most challenging behavior types love this. Each week, they get a new list of 10 words and index cards cut in 1/2, with an envelope to keep them in. We read/analyze the words together. They copy each word on to 2 cards. (So, 20 cards for 10 words.) Then they play concentration with each other. They words can be spelling patterns, vocabulary from Social Studies, Science, reading, etc.)
5) "Make a word" activity : use a spelling or vocabulary word. Type the letters in 2 columns (vowels on top of one; consonants on top of the other). Put "Scrabble" tiles with the letters in a small tupperware container. Let them manipulate the tiles and write what words they come up with in the columns. This is another activity that works with mixed ability pairs.
One lesson I learned the hard way: have a signal for returning items to containers and returning to seats (I have a bell that my group takes turn ringing.) Once everyone is back in their seats, check that materials have been put back and here is a good time to use whatever behavior plan you have in place to assess how the groups did before carefully releasing them to their next assignments.
Good luck!
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Hang in there
Old 12-31-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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you are in a difficult situation, but the kids need you! I like to use anchor activities...it can be a center similar to the ideas above. The kids rotate between an activity with you, then to the assistant, then to this activity. that way all the kids are actively engaged and hopefully the behaviors won't escalate. Another idea is for the Social Worker or Speech therapist come in during a time that you are busiest, or the kids are most stressed and have them run a group while you and your assistant are? the more hands on deck the better. Good luck !
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:20 PM
 
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I totally agree with Kristabel. You will have to use your assistant as more of a "teacher". I teach a multi-age/multi-disability class--ages ranging from 5-9, and skill levels ranging from Infant/Pre-k to 1st grade. My students have disability rulings of autism, PDD/NOS, Fragile X, Epilepsy and Developmental Delay. Quite a "stew". My assistant and I are both actively involved all day in teaching the students. We HAVE to be, or it would be total chaos. Each student basically has their own "curriculum". I'm able to group for some activities, but the attention levels and varying skills require one-on-one instruction. What I've done this year is group students with similar skills as much as possible. My assistant and I each have a group. (fortunately this year I only have 6) I have skill-specific "center" activities at each table for students to work on (independently, I wish) while my assistant and I do individual instruction with one student at a time. It's not really possible tho to do uninterrupted individual instruction, because the other students are right there at the table and have to be supervised to keep them focused. It's similar to being a hummingbird---flitting your attention from one to the other. It is VERY difficult. Attention spans are non-existent and everything distracts. Many days it feels like a 3-ring circus, and I'll admit sometimes I don't feel that we're accomplishing much. But there are days when it works really well....depends on the mood, state of mind, physical health, etc. of the students. (I could also go on a soap-box rant about multi-level classrooms for special needs students. It's just insane. If these children have such significant needs that they can't perform in a gen. ed. class where everyone is pretty much doing the same thing....how in the world are they supposed to get what they need in a class where everyone is doing something different and the teacher is split in 6 different ways? Ok, I'll stop now.)
Anyway, the key to all of it is to have your assistant right there actively teaching the students. I am so blessed in that area with my assistant. I would be crazy without her help.
I totally know where you are coming from, and wish you all the very best for the second semester. Keep us all posted on how things are going.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:14 AM
 
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Heart, Your post made me smile, as it was spoken by an involved educator who strives for the best despite being given a near impossible task. Keep shining!


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a method that has worked well for me
Old 01-02-2010, 07:11 PM
 
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I have taught a multi-grade self-contained class for the past 12 years. In the past, I have had as many as 4 grades in one class. I have a range of behavior disabled and learning disabled students. I currently teach 2 shared reading groups, 5 guided reading, 3 math, and 1 writing group with break out sessions. I understand your challenges.

I have tried many different types of management systems in my classroom. I have found centers to be unsuccessful with this age group. Several years ago I started implementing "The Daily 5." It is a literacy management system to use with your entire class. The program is written by two sisters. It is a quick read (I did it in a weekend) and easy to implement. I found that my students became more independent when it came to their education. One of the skills that they stress is being independent readers and writers. This allows me to meet with guided reading groups while students work on their literacy skills. As you progress in the program, students are allowed to choose what they would like to work on. I really find this effective with this age group.

As a result, I have more time to work with small groups without wasting time on creating and grading "busy work." My students reading levels are increasing at a career record rate (due to more independent reading,) my writing scores have increased by a full level.

Good luck.
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Definitely use groups!
Old 01-02-2010, 07:22 PM
 
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I am in a situation similar to yours. The beginning of the school year was absolutely terrible and I felt like I was drowning! Things are better now because I make sure my lessons are always well planned in advance and I always teach in groups. Even if I'm teaching the whole class the same lesson I still split them up because it's so much easier. I agree with the previous posters that you must utilize your assistant and have him/her leading small groups. I've found that it works well to have 3 groups: one with me, one with the assistant, and one working independently.

Another thing that really works for me is to switch up what the students are doing every 10 minutes. I might talk for 10 minutes, then have the students come to the board to practice for 10 minutes, then work with a partner at their desks, etc. It's important to change it up often so the students don't get bored.

Finally, look for interesting and out of the box ideas for lessons. For example, when we studied parts of speech I had the students look through newspapers and find nouns, adjectives, adverbs, etc. Some of my students couldn't read the newspapers well so they needed help, but the whole class loved it.

Sorry for the long post but I'm very sympathetic to your situation because I'm in the same boat!
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maybe this will help
Old 01-03-2010, 06:01 AM
 
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I have been teaching a self-contained class (6th-8th) for the past three years. Most of my students range from pre-k through 3rd grade level. I use either color coded work folders and or work baskets. I look at my IEP goals and extend standards to create baskets with everything for hands on assignments in them. (manipulatives, visual picture directions, and self-checking answers). I also take color coded folders (ie. red for math, blue for language arts, green for science) I write each students name and academic area on outside. Then glue a self-check visual picture list on inside. I laminate them and slice open the folder sections. (will last all year) I also place a copy of each students IEP goals for that area in each folder. That way as they complete each section of work with me or the ta it can be graded, dated, and placed in a portfolio. I also use a flip video camera or a regular camera to take pictures of the students basket work when completed to place in portfolios. That way we are organized and I can document when each student has met an IEP goal.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:47 AM
 
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God bless you all. And here I am complaining about my grade 4/5 multi-ability group (the most difficult grouping). I will think of you all when I get the urge to run out of the classroom screaming, "I can't take it any more!"
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meeting the needs
Old 01-03-2010, 06:55 AM
 
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"If these children have such significant needs that they can't perform in a gen. ed. class where everyone is pretty much doing the same thing....how in the world are they supposed to get what they need in a class where everyone is doing something different and the teacher is split in 6 different ways?"

In a perfect world, how would you see these students getting their needs met? I'm not trying to be provocative. I saw the movie The Blind Side last night and it was amusing to hear the reg ed teachers talk about how the student couldn't do anything and it wasn't worth their efforts. This pulls on our never ending quests.
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self contained
Old 01-03-2010, 01:47 PM
 
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I also have a self contained classroom and my students are supposed to all have intellectual disabilities but this year I received 3 new students and they are WAY above my other students. Now I have students that range from nonreaders/1st grade level to my new students who are 3rd/4th/5th grade reading level (luckily I have a reg ed teacher who loves to takes my really high student with Autism). One of my students is blind, and two have severe autism.

The first plan of attack, so to speak, is to get your behavior under control because if your class is out of control then your students can't learn. Then, as suggested by someone earlier, I would divide my students into groups by ability and place them into centers. It would be much easier to teach in small group but remember you have to provide your para with guidance, you can't just give her students.

I would suggest making a picture schedule for my class, you can go to the following website and if you click on the area for school, and then schedules, you can find some generic pictures. Also, at the bottom of the schedules section you will see a weekly chart that you can use as an example to create your own. I would put pictures of each activity for the day so that the students know where they are going each day. I have my groups color coded--I have Boardmaker so I can change the color of the squares but you could put colored construction paper behind each one. Then you can tell the students it is time for reading groups and they can look at the board, see a picture of a computer, a reading table, etc and they know where to go. It took me 2 or 3 weeks at the beginning of the year to get them into this routine but now I can teach them a new activity and change the picture and they know to look for the picture. Many of them are not able to tell time but they know to look for the pictures. I really don't check this site that often but if you want to sent me your email address, I will be happy to send you my schedule of my classroom.

If you have low functioning students this website also has really good behavior pictures/charts.
http://www.setbc.org/pictureset/Default.aspx
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in a perfect world....
Old 01-05-2010, 07:57 PM
 
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leslier,

In a perfect world, these children would not have the difficulties that prevent them from learning and/or expressing what they already know....and I'd be out of a job. But, based on the world that we've got, here's what I think. When a child is determined to have a disability that prevents him/her from benefitting from gen. ed. instruction, that child deserves an educational environment that will provide opportunities for learning that are equal to those received by students in the gen. ed. classes. In my biased opinion, I feel that some children with special needs deserve MORE. Each one of my students needs a person right with them every minute of the day. (I guess that would be a perfect world. )
Some children have multiple extensive needs (communication, physical, cognitive, sensory, etc.) which limit their ability to make progress. By putting several children with multiple disabilities all together in a classroom with only one teacher and one assistant, those children are placed at an even greater disadvantage. The two teachers are trying to be all things to all children and basically none of the children are receiving the benefit of a "full teacher"...so the progess level of the entire class suffers. My students would benefit so much from simply having one more assistant teacher in the room. These children are often underestimated by everyone except their special needs teachers. The general opinion of non-sped teachers and most administrators is that these children can't learn, so it doesn't really matter what kind of classroom situation they are placed in. Of course no one will actually say that, but their actions and administrative decisions speak volumes.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have heard reg. ed. teachers make similar comments about students with special needs. Always makes me wonder what kind of teacher and person they really are. Each one of my students is capable of so much more than anyone realizes. However, they also need more of everything (time, attention, opportunities, facilities, expectations, praise, etc.) than anyone realizes, in order to learn and be able to show what they can do.
What they need overall though, is to be recognized as individuals, and regarded as "worthy" and capable by those who make the big decisions. That would be a big step towards a BETTER world for them.
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Trying to do it all
Old 01-08-2010, 08:26 AM
 
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I am also a first year teacher in a simliar self-contained room. I'm in the same boat with the ability range! I don't have it all figured out, HOWEVER, for reading I have used the book "Children with Disabilties Reading and Writing the 4BLocks Way". It is an EXCEPTIONAL literacy model and has allowed me to meet the needs of all my students for literacy and they've made huge progress. Plus a lot of it is very differentiated whole-group instruction, so you can meet all their needs without being split in 6 different directions. I was very skeptical when I started using it, but now halfway through the year I can see such a difference in all the students. Hopefully this helps with at least the literacy aspect of your room.
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Thank you!!!
Old 01-08-2010, 05:41 PM
 
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I can't say thank you enough for ALL of the posts!!! So many supportive suggestions and advice! I hadn't been back on so it has taken me a little bit to read them all and soak it all in!!!
I AM starting the ability grouping for my Reading/Soc Stud/Science. I am using my assistant to help with the groups, and I think this will really help. While the 2 groups are going on, a 3rd group will work on independent morning work/seat work. Our math is Accelerated Math which lets them work at their own level and then I do mini lessons on topics for them all.
I have basically just done a lot of "busy" work and taught mini lessons but it hasn't been very effective. I have tried going with the themes/topics and tried to connect the subjects to that, but that didn't work very well and even tho they were leveled many still needed one-on-one. We started with 13 and are now at 10 with the possibility of more coming within the next month or so.
I am beginning to use the text books for Soc Stud/Science in groups and am praying this won't frustrate the lower level students. I don't have all of the curriculum that goes with my texts, but most of it, I just have to organize it all now.
They were just able to change my schedule a little so that helped with class scheduling. We have an abbreviated day so around breakfast/specials/lunch/recess I have about 3- 3 1/2 hours for instruction which puts a crunch on it also.
It has really helped posting the schedule each day to keep me on track and give them a heads up on what we were doing that day. The thing that makes it more difficult is that if one of them is having a rough day and is in timeout or in the dugout, everything changes and one group will have to do something different and I don't have a stock pile of things to pull from to use.
I also just created an I'm Finished, Now What list to help with those on level and finished earlier than others. That has seemed to help and I got a positive response from my students also.
Every day is a new day is my motto. I have just gotten very depressed and rethinking my decision to teach and if I am cut out for this! It has made it very hard to focus on planning and being ahead of the game. I just cleaned out my room over break and that helped me to feel in more control also. (The previous teacher still had all of his stuff and the prior teachers stuff there and NO organization what so ever, so I had no where to put my things and felt so DIS-organized! He is also still in and out of the room as a Consultant which makes me very self conscious as welll.)
So sorry to ramble, but I don't have to many places I feel comfortable enough to vent so thank you to each one of you who took your time to respond and offer advice! It truly means a lot to me and has been so helpful and up-lifting!! It IS nice to know that I am not alone!!
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:50 PM
 
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One problem is that the goals are very general..."student will use coping skills taught (ie deep breaths, counting to 10, speaking to trusted adult) when frustrated, angry or upset in 4 out of 5 situations..." etc.. I think this is a big issue and if they are ED and LD/MI, most of them only have ED goals and no LD/MI goals. I currently have 10 students, but started with 13. I have 1 asst. Most of them do not get along well with the others and can't handle many partner activities. I have also had 2 students who go to general education classrooms for a portion of the day and that has really affected how I schedule as well.
I have struggled with being consistent and "feel sorry for them" and have let to many things slide, so I now have to try to regain control. I knew better, but it still seemed to happen!! UGHH!! I am trying to start with a new outlook and survived my first week back. Thanks for the advice!!
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What kind of schedule do you use?
Old 01-16-2010, 03:14 PM
 
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I'm also in a 3-4-5 self-contained classroom, and I do have an assistant. However, my biggest challenge is making a daily schedule that works for all the different ability levels and IEP goals of 11 students. Abilties range from pre-school - identifying numbers and letters - mid-third: learning to divide with remainders and reading at 2nd grade level (still learning phonics). What schedule did you use, or have you used? I'd love to see an example.
In my class, kids are going in and out for various services every day - or the OT or S/L person cancels so that student(s) is there after all. My aide is on a different schedule, taking the 3rd graders to recess and her lunch; then she has to go to her lunch, so I have all the kids for 1/2 an hour -- it just has so many changes in it, with people coming and going - very hard for me to stay focused on the whole picture, and I end up just working with whoever is there at the time and grabbing the appropriate folder and getting started.
We do have a basic schedule: Opening, writing, reading, snack, recess, math, lunch, recess, read aloud - and now it's 1:15 pm and my aide is at lunch. I just make something up every day for this time until 2 pm,and then we start getting ready to go home - often teh kids "silent read" (most can't read) while I gather their homework. I have parents who don't consider their children to be properly educated if they don't have homework every night - so I have to put together homework for each one individually every day! I try to do that ont he wweekends when I make up their new spelling lists, but ususally I end up doing it day to day in the classroom.
I think I do too much individualizing, but I can't figure out how else to do it!
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What a relief!
Old 01-16-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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I am so glad to hear you put into words the insanity of my classroom! That is exactly how I feel: How can these children with learning disabilities be expected to learn in a classroom with so many different ability levels with a 5:1 student-teacher ratio, and the teacher is slit in so many different directions???
Also, the way you run your classroom is very much like mine, and I have thought I was doing it all "wrong" because I have so much going on at once, and try to work with students one on one at the same table. We break into groups, and each studrnt has thrir own folder for that subject. I (and my aide in her group) open each child's folder and continue whatever work is in it. It's my job to keep the folders updated and current, which is a big, time-consuming job, and it often doesn't get done ahead of time. I love your hummingbird image. I'll tell my aide about that, and maybe it will help her to understand what we're doing. She is new and new to teaching, so I feel like I also need to be "training" her. This is challenging because I also want her to find her own style with the children, rather than feeling like she has to do it all my way.
Thanks for your post, I really feel better about what we do in my classrrom now.
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Can you give an example?
Old 01-16-2010, 03:31 PM
 
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Can you give me an example of a "self-checking visual check list" and of the contents of a work basket for one of your students at 1st or 2nd grade level? What do you use for a "basket?" (How big is it?) You sound so organized - and that is my goal in my classroom. I'd love to learn more about your methods, especially being able to tie it to tracking progress on their IEP goals.
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Old 01-16-2010, 03:40 PM
 
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"Each one of my students is capable of so much more." And "the progress level of the whole class suffers." That is just exactly how I feel. I am so totally glad to learn that there are other SPED teachers out there experiencing their jobs in the same way I am.

Do you really think it is this way because the admin people think it doesn't matter, since these kids can't learn anyway? I thought it was fdue to lack of funds as well as ignorance on the part of school principals about kids with special needs. My principal seems torn in as many different directions as I am, and I don't see her having the time or energy to try to support a different system with my kids than the one we have. Which is basically: Take care of them and try not to bother me - I'll do what I can, but I'm way over extended myself, so don't ask for much.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:40 PM
 
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Teri, I think that many administrators are like yours, especially considering the pressure now with state testing & all that goes along with it. Also, some are completely ignorant about what goes on (or SHOULD go on) in a sped class, usually because they've never been actively involved in one. I've only had one principal who was a regular visitor to my class, and she was totally supportive of whatever I needed to do for my children. The others have had great lipservice---"Oh, what precious babies!", but when it came down to actually meeting their needs, it was a different story. Also, I think some people are just intimidated by children with special needs. They don't understand it and it makes them uncomfortable, so they avoid it. (They just don't know what they're missing!)

I don't have quite as much coming & going since mine are younger, but your schedule sounds a lot like mine. Most of our serious work is done in the mornings. In the afternoons we do fine motor, crafts, projects, singing, stories, etc. Our OT/PT/SLP have scheduled days, so I have to work around that. I totally understand what you mean about working with whoever is in front of you. To help keep track, each student has a weekly skills sheet, which lists specific skills to be worked on throughout the day...hopefully! There are sections to make notes about their performance, etc. each day. This helps me know how they are doing when they work with my assistant and is great for documenting progress on IEP goals.

For our "work" time, I keep baskets of materials--lang/math/fine motor--appropriate for each table group, that we can pull activities from for one-on-one or independent work. Those baskets are lifesavers for subs. I just leave a note for the sub to work from the baskets.

"I think I do too much individualizing, but I can't figure out how else to do it!" --LOVE THIS!
It's so true! I try to group for some things, but most of my students simply can't focus unless I'm right there---in their face. So, that's what I have to do.

Sounds like you've got a good idea of how to handle your class. Organization is definitely the key, and that's something I think we all struggle with. Seems to get away from me just when I think I've got a handle on it. I find myself preparing lots of stuff just ahead of when I need it. Glad to know I'm not the only one!


Best of luck to you & your students! Keep in touch!
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Valuableeduc's Self Checking Answer Activity?
Old 02-05-2010, 12:46 AM
 
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I have a class almost identical to this as well, 25 students (18 boys and 7 girls) and nearly ten would be classified as special needs if we were a "regular" school (we are a very small school in a remote area with limited access to Sped services, so everything is done by the classroom teacher). What has been very problematic is the behaviour (intentionally distracting or defiant behaviours between the students when they are doing independent work in groups, which then drags me from the group I am working with to deal with) of independent groups.

These "self-checking" activities intrigue me (often I am interrupted with the group I'm attempting to teach because a student from an "independent" group is running up to me to celebrate getting something right, or an accomplishment, or to explain that they don't understand something... a lot of my students have been very coddled at home, and are not accustomed to sharing the attention of an adult with more than one or two other children- their siblings). Do you have an example of one of your "self checking" activities that you would be willing to share? I am up to my eyeballs with students who need nearly constant affirmation and this sounds like a great way to provide that for them.
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