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Resource as an Intervention for RTI?
Old 02-05-2010, 02:07 PM
 
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I'm being asked to take kids for 6-12 weeks, collect data etc. as part of their RTI intervention (reading, math and writing). Is anyone else doing this? I didn't think that was legal, but people interpret the law differently.


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Old 02-05-2010, 02:43 PM
 
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I have done this for years now. I think the whole RTI think has really changed things and I am not sure the legality. My groups, schedule and services are so infused with general education teachers/students many student in RTI who later get an IEP have little change in service, but things become formal. I have a lot of flexibility at my school to provide the interventiosn in the way I see is needed that I just do what is best for my students and if somehow I get in trouble for that then oh well.
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I do
Old 02-05-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Similar to pp. We are so small, we all wear a lot of hats. I do RTI short-term depending on the topics I need to do. Some kids always see me 1-2x per week, sometimes a kid might see me for just division, or just going over punctuation.

I don't particularly like it, because I do feel that if the teachers were doing proper differentiation, we wouldn't need it. We don't even do reading or writing workshop model.

Some teachers think they can use that time to "dump" their difficult kids on to me. I put a stop to that immediately. I have enough of my own issues to deal with, deal with your own!!

I think the legality is ok since we are not identifying a disability, and just providing support short trem (sort of.) I keep it fun and the kids really like coming out. I do occassionally get to see that lightbulb moment when a kid finally gets something - that's not always there when I'm working on goals with my secial ed kids!
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:25 PM
 
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According to NCLB the classroom teachers are suppose to provide tier 1 & 2 services. The reality of it is that the classroom teacher doesn't have the time to do it all. Usually administration will pull other staff into tier 2. As a special education teacher you are suppose to be working with tier 3 students. I used to service tier 2 and 3 students but I'm only focused on tier 3 students now.
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this is disturbing
Old 02-05-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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I don't have enough hours in my day as it is, without pulling students who are not on my caseload in to teach! What are your special ed. caseloads like? My groups are full and my day is full. I already arrive at work between 7-7:30 and stay until at least 4:30...sometimes 5 and work some Sat. a.m.'s, bring work home at night, etc.

I don't just work with kids who have academic problems. Over half of my kids have behavior problems signifcant enough to have to remediate. Some students need support in the classroom for academics and/or behavior.

Thankfully, our district is like spedkidsrock describes. When RTI was introduced to me in my program, 5 yrs. ago...this is exactly how it was supposed to be. Yes, this leaves a lot on the classroom teacher. But, the special ed. teacher is not the Title teacher, the interventionist, etc. etc....


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Old 02-05-2010, 08:46 PM
 
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To answer your question my caseload is at 25 going on 30. Just today, I was home today with a sick child and spent hours reworking my scheduling and will reduce the sizes of my groups to ensure my IEPs are met. This is the first time I have had to do this. Our GE teachers have no clue about RTI and our distict RTI committee actually doesn't show that they understand either. I don't feel slighted and know my students get what they need. I do as much as I do so I can help more students and we have been successful at my school. I also work closely with the SLP, self contained special education teacher and an intervention teacher to spread the wealth. My instructional aide is exceptional as well.

That said I am typically the first car in the school parking lot and the last to leave. It is still fewer hours than I used to work in my prior career. However, it is far more work and difficult.
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Tier 3
Old 02-06-2010, 06:47 AM
 
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So, it sounds like SPED teachers can work with Tier 3 students. That would make sense as I would be writing IEP's for them and will already have data. The RTI system is dysfunctional at our school. Because of budget cuts, they have one or 2 interventionist 1 or 2 days a week and it's just not helpful. The definition of small group has changed. The K teachers will send a whole group of 25 with an "Interventionist" into the computer lab. As a result, we can not meet the criteria of the program of data points and showing results. So, as a result children are not being identified at all. The only new kids I get are being transferred in with an IEP from elsewhere. The only ones getting service have severe behavior problems and just can't manage a full day in the classroom. This has been going on since RTI was implemented about 2 yrs. ago and our numbers are dwindling. I only have 15 right now, but they are all pretty severe. Not even one is L.D., 6 autism.These are changing times.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:
So, it sounds like SPED teachers can work with Tier 3 students
.

Tier 3 is special education.

doright, if you are not burned out yet, you will be. While I think it is admirable for you to want to help ALL children at your school, do you really think that is your job as special educator? If you were hired as pt. time sped teacher and pt. time interventionist, I guess I could see it, although logistically something has to give.

Your caseload is large. Right now I have 20, but I am testing two and we are meeting on several more. Just curious, do you all do your own evaluations (academic), write them up, write your FBA's and BIP's, update them, etc.?? The paperwork part of my job could easily be several hours a day alone.

Don't get me wrong, part of our job as special ed. team is to consult with gen. ed. teachers about kids they are concerned with. We observe, meet with them, and give recommendations/share observations. That alone is stretching my daily capabilities for getting everything done. I am very organized, so it's not that. We are a small school and didn't do any type of RTI until this year. We were able to hire a special ed. teacher who is paid with stimulus title funds. She is half time and works with some Tier 2 students. As it is, she is spread thin...we are lucky to have her, but she is only in this capacity for two years...then, who knows.

I'm always interested in hearing about how different all of our jobs are...depending on where we are in the country. I'm glad you all can get everything done and feel good about doing what I believe is a gen. ed. job. Maybe something is wrong with ME, but I know I could not do the best for my students if I had to pull in several more groups to work with.
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RTI is suppose
Old 02-06-2010, 08:14 AM
 
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to be a general education initiative, not an initiative where SpED teachers are doing the data collection and interventions...sound like having your cake and eating it too for your school districts....? I fully realize that gen. ed teachers don't have time to provide specialized intervention, but either do SpEd teachers. The students on our case loads are being short changed if we are adding in students without IEP's. Wouldn't that be like putting an instructional level IEP student in gen. ed reading without support services? "Well, the teacher is teaching reading too isn't she?" is the logic I think administration goes with...Very few administrators understand the whole SpEd set up and now RTI. Solution? Hire interventionalists in math and reading to work with RTI students! I think money is being reallocated over into RTI land right now - move sp.ed teachers over into that world to work with tier 1 and 2 - we know how to pinpoint deficit areas and remediate, but don't ask them to double dip!
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I'm new to special ed. . .
Old 02-06-2010, 08:49 AM
 
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Can someone explain the tiers to me? TIA


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Old 02-06-2010, 08:56 AM
 
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You hit the nail on the head...I agree 100% Sounds like a lot of states/districts/administrators are misinterpreting RTI and taking advantage of hard working sped teachers. I loved the comparison to dumping students with IEP's in gen. ed. w/o support. That's exactly what it would be like.


K Shaw--picture a pyramid.The bottom 80% is Tier 1--the vast majority of students, learning fairly typically.

Tier 2 is the 15% of students who need some remediation/intervention. Usually what we call Title help--the 'middle' of the pyramid.

Tier 3 is students who are or will be identified for special education services...about 5%--and the top of the pyramid.
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Doright, are you getting
Old 02-06-2010, 09:10 AM
 
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any exercise or any sort you time? I'm nearly always one of the first to arrive, and frequently walking back out to a dark empty parking lot to just my car. However, I leave on time twice a week to exercise. Along with the weekends, it is enough to keep me healthy, emotionally balanced, and productive. As a teacher well past the first and second flushes of youth (mid-40s), it is essential that I take care of myself.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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Thanks for your concern and it is good to hear how others manage. Like I mentioned earlier I just reevaluated my situation, am making schedule change and ensuring things work for me and my students. My students are not shortchanged.

I don't think adding other students hurt them in any way as long as I control the numbers and teach accordingly. Too often are students are isolated and stigmatized by special education and I minimize this in various ways.

I am pushing 40 and am not new to this profession. I get plenty of exercise and free time. I typically work 7:30-5 or 8-5:30. Not long hours in the real world, but unthinkable to the teachers at my school

Last edited by doright; 02-06-2010 at 01:39 PM..
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I hope
Old 02-06-2010, 08:32 PM
 
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I didn't offend you, Doright . Sounds like you are doing well and are pretty accomplished.

However, I know that for me and my special ed. students (my priority), this is not doable. And I don't feel guilty about it. It would be very detrimental to my particular students. You see, when the school psych and I write the SDI for the students' evaluations, we specifically write that they should be seen in very small groups and sometimes even 1:1 (although with my caseload this is next to impossible...but I do have two students who must be instructed 1:1 at times). Right now, my reading groups are groups of 3, 4, and 4. Two of them are too large right now for the particular students I have in them. I have behaviors in every group. The kids need so much and even though my reading and math blocks are pretty long by typical sped standards, we don't have enough time to do all they need to do daily now...I can't imagine adding several more gen. ed. students to these groups. And I sure don't have even one more time slot to add to my day, with meetings before and after school and paperwork and monitoring of some students during my lunch and very short planning period. I am almost never alone in my room and I eat lunch there as well.

I'm not saying all this to complain. I love my job, but I can't imagine spreading myself even more thin.

You said you had a lot of flexibilty. I am able to make my own schedule every year, but I don't have a lot of flexibility because I see my students during the regular ed. blocks...and with lunch, recesses, PE. Music, Library, etc. there is only so much time in the day.

There is one last question I am curious about. I asked you all before, but didn't get an answer:

Quote:
Just curious, do you all do your own evaluations (academic), write them up, write your FBA's and BIP's, update them, etc.?? The paperwork part of my job could easily be several hours a day alone.
Just this past week, I had one 3 yr. eval (with IEP, FBA, and BIP) due, along with 2 other IEP's. Next week, I have two kids to test and an IEP to start. When do you do all this extra paperwork?

Thanks for your reply

p.s. I am also not new to education, although I am only a 3rd year teacher. I was a Title IA for 13 yrs. I have long since said goodbye to 40, .

Last edited by newspedteach; 02-06-2010 at 08:39 PM.. Reason: added
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Our district
Old 02-07-2010, 12:52 PM
 
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Here is how our district has interpreted it......Special educators can help with RTI process but only if it does not interfere with the learning and goals of the resource students. For instance, if I have a scheduled time with even 1 resource student then I cannot take any RTI students on the 1 or 2 Tier. I can work with Tier 3 students as they are generally on their way to my room anyway. I can only work with them when I have a time slot available. (we have set aside a specific time each day for these kids) and no more than 5 kids in a group at a time.

I hope that made sense. It really does work for us. I hope you find something that works for you.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:55 PM
 
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I must have the best people ever! I only do the IEP. I will set up the meetings and make the contacts but the FBA is written by the behaviorist, the BIP is written by anyone involved with the student so it is a team effort, and the academics I do on my own. The paperwork is hefty but yours sounds insurmountable! I am so blessed that I have help!
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thanks Teabreak
Old 02-07-2010, 01:59 PM
 
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It's interesting how different our jobs are while we share the same title of special education teacher .

I don't want to give the impression that I don't have help...but, we don't have behaviorists. We have a district behavior team, but they are teachers with full time jobs and while they are happy to come out and observe and consult, they have their own work and paperwork and could not take ours on.

We have a new school psych this year who does help me with the FBA. As a new teacher, my first two yrs. I wrote the FBA's myself with a tiny bit of input (via email, no less) with our psych.

I have a great team, but we are small and spread thin. I just wanted to know how some of you who take on gen. ed. responsibilities got your own daunting responsibilities taken care of. Thanks for your reply.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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That is kind of what I was talking about. I am in a large district that has a bit of funding behind it. That has its pros and cons ! The pros are that we have specific people for specific jobs. We have the behaviorists, the autisim specialists, the assistants for the psych, subs that just go around and relieve teachers for IEPs........It all helps out and we each take a piece of the paperwork in our area. That is a HUGE help.

Not sure how I could handle a situation where you are doing so much more. I know I don't have as much paperwork as some, but feel blessed that there are others to share the load. The con of all of that is there are many cooks in the kitchen
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good point about the cons!
Old 02-07-2010, 07:10 PM
 
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. There are plusses and minuses to everything, I suppose!

We used to have a 'team support' person who was shared among two to three schools. Her job was to assist in keeping us organized as to when things were due, send IEP and EVAL invites, get our GT's set up on our online program, etc. She was great, but her work mostly benefitted the psych. Our district (like many) is hurting budget wise, so we lost that support a year ago. While her work didn't directly benefit me, it helped the psych and now the psych has more rigamarole to deal with....you know how it is...and we get bogged down. As a result, we are so busy that we often don't have our evals, IEP's, etc. completed until the last minute.

We do have 'IEP days'....7 a year that we can take for testing, writing reports and IEP's, observations, etc. Anything related to our job/paperwork. I hate to get subs and be away from my kids so that I can do paperwork, but I don't have a lot of choice. I try to test when kids have schedule changes, but that is tricky too.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:35 PM
 
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Not offended and wasn't trying to be defensive. I actually like the dialogue and hearing everyone's experiences. This board is often too quiet.

As with most special education assignments our situations sound very different. I do not have many behaviors to deal with this year, knock on wood.... This allows me to accomplish so much instruction which is why I can see more students. We also have Read 180 and with this program I have groups of 12 where I have 3 groups of 4 and students rotate between the computer, a reading center with my aide and then small group instruction with myself. If I had many behaviors things would have to change.

As far as paperwork I do the academic portion of evaluations, IEPS and the occasional BSP/BIP. We have some major issues with our psych and administration is pushing her to basically do her job which includes a lot of the behavior related issues. This helps us all.

We have an efficient online IEP program which makes paperwork easier, although still time consuming. I typically can get it done before or after school. I also have an hour a week during the day to work on this. I used to write court reports in my prior career so I can whip an IEP out quickly if necessary.

All we juggle can seem insurmountable and GE teachers always say they do not want my job, but I love my job and don't want to go back to GE.
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First off
Old 02-09-2010, 04:51 AM
 
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LOVE Read 180!!! Taught with it for a couple of years at my old school and loved it!

Ok, now that I have that out of my system, we are also blessed to have an online IEP system. I like it a lot better than the old way, but really think that some of the repetition from page to page could still be eliminated.

I do love my job though and plan on staying for some time.
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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I find it amusing that EVERYONE and every school I've worked at has a different view of RTI and what the Tiers actually mean! I currently have to do Tier 2 and 3, and in my Master's program was taught that Special Ed actually should not begin any work with the child until they are in the referral process. Interventions should be done by the General Ed teachers/ staff. Special Ed teachers can definitely assist with teasing out what would be the best strategy, but if they were to get involved too soon, it is almost like muddying the waters. Referrals should not mean "they are on their way to me," and it is my belief that we should focus on IEP students who have been through the process and determined to be eligible (especially with our rising numbers).

On a side note... do your districts assign you (Special Ed teacher) as the "case manager" or contact person at the very beginning of a referral?
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