Well, I finally transitioned from a charter school into the public school system. However, I just found out that I am going to have 25 first graders. The classroom cap is supposed to be 18 for prek-grade 3 so I am just a bit bummed and worried. Although I've never had a problem with classroom management, I have only taught in classrooms with 12, 15, and 19 students. With 19 students last year, it was very to give my students individualized attention.
I taught 1st a few years ago and had 27. No assistant. No prep time. That's the norm around my area. I currently teach 3rd and it's the same. Our 4-6 grades have 30-33.
The cap in Texas grade k-4 is 22. We did have a few rooms with waivers, but the biggest room was a 1st grade room with 24. I teach 6th and usually have around 24-27 per class.
Our Catholic school caps classes at 26. That is how many 2nd graders i will have this year. Public schools in our area cap at 28 or 30. Stack em deep, teach em cheap!
I believe our district matches the state maximums. Up to 32 for kinder. Up to 31 for 1-3; and up to 34 for 3-5. Yes, we usually meet those maximums. No aides or assistants for any class other than special ed.
It's more than classroom management: it's having physical space in your classroom (34 5th graders is tough); it's the additional time spent correcting as well as completing assessments and report cards; just trying to find time to connect with each child. It's certainly challenging.
K: 25: VERY difficult group.
1st: 28: My easiest class BY FAR.
2nd: 24: Decent
3rd: 19: VERY difficult
4th: 22: difficult
5th: 22: VERY difficult
6th: 32 (not a typo, 6th should've had another section): surprisingly decent.
I have 32. My school is 24 in K-3 and 32 in 4-5. That's pretty typical for my area.
I really think it's about what you get used to. I am able to give individualized attention with a large class. It's not easy, but it is also not impossible. I do it by primarily teaching through a workshop model with small groups and 1:1 conferencing. My whole class lessons are very short.
I get very annoyed by defeatist comments about large classes being "crowd control." I am a glass half full person, and I make the best out of what I have. (I realize no one has said that on this thread, but I've seen it plenty of times in the past.)
I also agree that it's ALL about the makeup of the class.
having 17 7th graders and it felt like having fifty of them in a room and then I've had 36 and it felt like teaching a dozen. It's about the makeup too definitely.
Our district cap for k-2 is 22. K gets a full time aide. 3-5 cap is 25. The most I've had is 21, but usually in the high teens. It depends on enrollment. Administration is all about the numbers and not the needs of any particular group of students. Some grade levels are just easier than others.
generally has 20 or less for K-2. It is generally about 20 for the 3-5 also. We are finding (those of us in the trenches), that the over the top emphasis on "college and career ready" academics, means that more and more students are failing day to day. They need so much more help to meet the standards that are being established.
I believe our district matches the state maximums. Up to 32 for kinder. Up to 31 for 1-3; and up to 34 for 3-5. Yes, we usually meet those maximums. No aides or assistants for any class other than special ed.
Survival of the fittest! Surprising parents are not protesting -- that is way too many students at the age especially.
Does the district provide extra-large rooms? Does this many students break the fire code?
I teach in a private school, and our caps are lower. I think grades K-2 cap at 15, and 3-6 cap at 18. I had 18 last year, and it looks like this year I'll have around 13. The upcoming group has always been smaller.
One year I had 26 third graders in a very tiny room. It was miserable!!!! That is the most I've ever had! I'm excited to only have 16 on my roll for this year! It's been a long time since I've had that few!
Last year, I had my largest class. I started the year with 25 and then ended up with 27 first graders! I didn't have an assistant either. I survived though! It's definitely a stretch but you'll be ok. Just make sure that you take care of yourself. This year, I'm supposed to have another big class.
I've taught a variety of grades and I've spent 5 years in first. I've never had less than 25. You'll be fine. Just be very clear about expectations and routines. Small groups are the best way to get individualized attention to kiddos.
I teach 6th grade. The least I have had is 18, the most is 29. The years with 29 were difficult because of limited space (lots of 6th graders are bigger than me) and tons of grading. This year I believe we will have 18 or 19 kids.
Survival of the fittest! Surprising parents are not protesting -- that is way too many students at the age especially.
Don't want to speak for you, Gogogo, but I know in my area of CA (which seems to have smaller class sizes in primary than others...), the big class sizes in upper grades are accepted because they're the norm. Why would parents protest? Nothing will change, because that's the way it's always been. I was in elementary in the 90s and it was the same then, as well. Their parents probably were in classes that size as kids, too.
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I will have 30 first graders. K-3 is 30, 4-5 is 35. This is CA
sarebeth, are you in So Cal? The sizes seem to be bigger down there for primary. The trend in northern CA seems to be lowering class sizes in K-3. I guess that's still not happening down there?
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One year I had 26 third graders in a very tiny room. It was miserable!!!! That is the most I've ever had! I'm excited to only have 16 on my roll for this year! It's been a long time since I've had that few!
I CAN'T even imagine 32 in a classroom!
I'm guessing many of our rooms are bigger since we have always had big classes in CA, though I could be wrong in some cases. My room is 900 sq ft (30x30). Not sure if that's considered large or not by others' standards, but I think it's pretty big compared to some rooms I've seen online. It can feel crowded with lots of big 5th graders, but that's why I got rid of student desks and went to tables to free up space. I also got rid of my desk a couple years ago. There are tricks to maximize space.
We cap our K-3 at 17 and then 4-5 at 20. Middle level and high school can cap at 35 per class. I have had some classes where it was very close. The district does try to stay right at the cap level for elementary but our upper levels can go over and the teacher is compensated. I guess it costs less to have 40 kids in a room than to have two teachers with 20 kids each.
Our School Board won't even entertain the idea of a cap, but currently they're keeping us at 28 in elementary (K-5).
When I started teaching 3rd I had 17. Now 28 is the norm. It makes a HUGE difference, in planning, materials, filling out report cards and especially grading.
Aggies wife; The parents are used to the large sizes, so no squawking.
And I have thought silently in my head : Hey Fire Marshal don't you think all these kids and chairs and desks in this room pose more of a safety hazard than those paper on my wall?.
The kindergarten classrooms are bigger, I think and they have their own bathrooms. All the other classrooms are the same size. I don't think they are extra large.
What really gets to me is that by law ALL daycare facilities in California (private, school-based, Boys and Girls Clubs, YMCA programs) must not go below 1:14 staff-to-student ratio for school age children. Yet, they expect us to care AND educate a classroom of more than 30.
Last edited by Gogogo; 07-24-2016 at 02:14 PM..
Reason: Fixed the ratio numbers
The most I ever had in my room was 34 and it was a hard yr. ( The reasons Gogo mentioned + more kids = odds of more kids w/ problems. ) The least I have ever had was 14 in public school ( not sped) and it was a blast! It was a bright , well behaved group too. Our numbers have settled now and we usually have about 18- 20 kids in our classes for the last 10 yrs.. A PP mentioned parents had grown up in schools w/ 30 kids in their classes. I grew up in classes w/ 30 some kids too, but we behaved a lot better than kids nowadays. Also, kids who were extremely disruptive were not placed in general ed back then. I have no clue if it is true or not, but have heard the charter schools can boot kids if they cause problems. The area where I live the charter schools tend to get some pretty bright kids along w/ some really involved parents. ( Some tricky..)If your charter school takes mostly well behaved kids, 25 should be OK...Good luck!
Second grade and typically I have 25 or more. I have had two years with 28 and they were both difficult. There are no assistants. I think (hope) that I have 24 students this year.
My district cut several teaching positions and class sizes will be bigger this year based on "research" that said class size doesn't make a big impact on student learning. Most will be around 28-32, even in K! They hired two instructional coaches in my building, which people are really upset about. I did work with a good instructional coach in the past and I can see their value a bit more than the other teachers in my building, but even I still think a coach is not as valuable as someone who would work directly with students.
Yikes!! I can't imagine some of your class sizes!! I will have 20 next year, and that is because we are closing an elem. school so I'm getting 5 kids from that school that would not have been here. However, we are getting more and more behavior/emotional issues every year that can really disrupt teaching/learning . The grade coming up was pretty small to begin with, but I've had as little as 13, usually have around 18, and now they say class average will be about 21. City cap used to be 20 for k-2 and 25 for 3-5, but they didn't always honor that. Had 23 in K several times in my school
I have been teaching fourth grade of late. I have a morning and an afternoon class. They typically contain between 27 and 30 students. It's a lot of reading groups, reading responses, writing notebooks, etc. to keep track of.
Next year I might be teaching third grade in the morning and fourth in the afternoon. I hope the classes are smaller, but I think they'll still be in the upper 20s.
I'm always astonished by the numbers. Why does California have so many? I have never heard of such large classes in Texas. In my school we rarely have more then 20 in k-5, often we have 15-18. It's the only good thing about my district because we have many disruptive and disturbed kids. They probably keep the classes small because everyone would quit if we had huge classes on top of the disturbed kids. My classes of 15 have always felt like 30.
Our cap is 38 in 4-6. I usually have 37 the entire year, and will get a new one right before school gets out.
It makes for a very challenging year.
Yikes. I didn't know that was still happening. When I was in my southern CA credential program back in 2010-2011 (sorry if I'm incorrectly assuming you're in so cal), I know several of my friends student taught in upper grade classes with 36-38 students. I student taught with 34. I thought maybe it would get better after the layoffs eased up a bit. Guess not.
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I'm always astonished by the numbers. Why does California have so many? I have never heard of such large classes in Texas.
I'm not sure, except that in my lifetime, 30ish has always been normal, even in primary. Whenever there are pushes to reduce class sizes, it's ONLY for K-3. No one ever really mentions 4-12. Also, CA's per pupil spending is pretty abysmal, so that might be part of it. Teacher salaries have to be higher here than many other states, especially in some of the areas with the largest class sizes (like southern CA) because of the extremely high cost of living.
I think every state probably has good and bad things to deal with. CA doesn't require that student test scores be tied to evaluations. We also seem to test far less than many other states. I try to focus on the positives.
Well, I guess 25 definitely pales in comparison to some of the numbers you all have given me. I just found out that I might be co-teaching as well so now I can expect to have 50.
I don't want to come across as having a defeatist attitude, but it is a fact that I will not be able to provide the individualized support that the majority of the students need. I am teaching in an inner-city/urban area and the students benefited the most when I was able to rotate in groups. It's not a matter of classroom management, it's a matter of trying to make enough of myself available to that many children that are already below grade-level.
I'm terrified of not being marked "highly effective" due to test scores. Maybe I'm over-analyzing things way ahead of time.
Well, I guess 25 definitely pales in comparison to some of the numbers you all have given me. I just found out that I might be co-teaching as well so now I can expect to have 50.
I don't want to come across as having a defeatist attitude, but it is a fact that I will not be able to provide the individualized support that the majority of the students need. I am teaching in an inner-city/urban area and the students benefited the most when I was able to rotate in groups. It's not a matter of classroom management, it's a matter of trying to make enough of myself available to that many children that are already below grade-level.
I'm terrified of not being marked "highly effective" due to test scores. Maybe I'm over-analyzing things way ahead of time.
I do feel for you. When I taught 1st in a school with primarily low income students, I had 21, and that felt like more than my big 5th grade class. Primary is rough with a lot of kids. That co-teaching thing sounds...odd...also. I can't really speak to that. But what I can say, is that even though it might not be an ideal situation, you CAN provide individualized support. Maybe not as much as you'd like, but it can be done. Small groups are actually the best way to do this. Have you read the Daily 5? That helped me a LOT when I taught 1st. With my class of 21, I used to have 4 groups of about 5 or 6 kids, depending on the makeup of the class and the levels in it. With 25, I would probably try for 5 groups of 5, but not worry to much if the groups go up to 6 or 7, especially if those are the higher groups. Just try to keep the lower groups smaller. You do not have to meet with every group every day. I didn't because I didn't have time in my schedule. I met with the low kiddos every day, but then alternated for the higher groups. My kids made lots of progress with this method. Actually, if you're grouping with 50 kids across 2 teachers, you might be able to make even better groups at more targeted levels with a smaller range in each group.
I get it - many times, I've thought "this will never work" because of one disappointing thing or another, but after I wallow in the disappointment for a little awhile, I pick myself up and come up with a plan. You can do this, and you will.
p.s. 1st graders take standardized tests in your state? Yikes.
I agree with what has come across in a number of posts that the classrooms were not built with large numbers in mind. Expectations for small group instruction and working with technology mean additional furniture and space are needed. *sigh* It is just very crowded.
You should talk to your union. Is it strong? In our contract the cap for K is 18/19, and about 25 grade one and up. However, in grades 1-2 they never go past 22. One year they actually hired an additional K teacher in October because class sizes were 21/22. This is in CT.
I think having that many first graders is just wrong. Regardless of behavior K-1 is SOO important in teaching early reading skills! The less kids the more time you have to focus on the skill progression of each child.
Hi Yellowdaisies...yes, K-2 students do take a computerized standardized test and their growth is factored into our evaluation. Our state began merit/performance pay last year so now you can only receive a raise based on test scores.
Here's the catch...it's all a numbers game. Ultimately it boils down to the student makeup in the classroom. I ran myself in the ground last year trying to do Tier 2 and 3 intervention without any assistance from a coach or interventionist. Ironically enough, I did more small groups/centers with my larger class than I had with my smaller class and yet they did not perform as well as the smaller class sizes.
I decided to change my attitude though. I am a firm believer of the law of attraction and I really need to be more confident and POSITIVE. I am working on my centers and staying as organized and meticulous as possible. I can do this.
And on a positive note, it turns out that I won't be co-teaching...for now. So I will begin mapping out my plan for the 25 first graders that will be arriving in two weeks!
I teach high school and the cap is 33. All of our 9th grade teachers' classes are maxed out at 33. I can't even imagine having 33 freshman 😬.
I teach 10th grade and my classes are 25-29 this year. Last year was great because they were all in the low 20s. I'm comfortable with 20-25. Once it gets around 30 or more, it's just too many kids.
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07-23-2016, 08:03 PM
That's the norm around my area. I currently teach 3rd and it's the same. Our 4-6 grades have 30-33.
. The grade coming up was pretty small to begin with, but I've had as little as 13, usually have around 18, and now they say class average will be about 21. City cap used to be 20 for k-2 and 25 for 3-5, but they didn't always honor that. Had 23 in K several times in my school 
school may end up adding another unit with 7 students over plus other classes who are over 18. It may only last one month.
