Opinions? Bashing Class Dojo - ProTeacher Community




Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      The VENT

Opinions? Bashing Class Dojo

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
MrsPhysics MrsPhysics is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member

MrsPhysics
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member
Opinions? Bashing Class Dojo
Old 09-28-2019, 11:59 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

I saw a tweet today that called out the use of Class Dojo as contributing to a culture of discipline where kids are constantly being watched and how similar schools are to prisons. I wish I could link to it, but I canít find it again. Anyway, the tweeter was angry that teachers would use a system like Class Dojo and was especially appalled that their niece had a point deducted for using the restroom during a lesson.

Iím interested to get some teacher opinions on this. I teach secondary and have my own thoughts but Iíd like to hear what some others have to say. Bonus points if you can guess what the Twitter responses were like.


MrsPhysics is offline   Reply With Quote

Munchkins's Avatar
Munchkins Munchkins is offline
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 16,329
Senior Member

Munchkins
 
Munchkins's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 16,329
Senior Member
I used it
Old 09-28-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

Last year, when I had a very difficult first grade class, I caved and used Class Dojo. They loved it, and it helped a lot with discipline issues. However, I did not set it up so that parents could see it. The students knew how they were doing, but I didn't report it to parents. I can see how parents would be critical if they see points and aren't there to understand why they earned or lost. TMI for parents, in my opinion.
Munchkins is offline   Reply With Quote
owl98's Avatar
owl98 owl98 is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,453
Senior Member

owl98
 
owl98's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,453
Senior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 12:54 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

I teach 4th/5th grade. It is very frustrating when you are IN THE MIDDLE OF A LESSON and a student all of a sudden NEEDS to use the restroom.

We have a 5 minute break in the morning where I would GIVE dojo points for using the restroom instead of during the lesson. (For the record, I donít use dojo, though).

We have 10 minutes in the afternoon, plus lunch recess where it would be a perfect time to use the restroom. We have a 10 minute lesson for math and 45 minutes of work time, we have a 10 minute lesson for reading and 35 minutes of work time, we have a 10 minute lesson for writing and 35 minutes of work time. (You get the picture) and any time during the work time Iím a-ok with a student using the restroom.

My point is: you can wait the 10 minutes so I donít need to repeat the whole thing over again for you, Precious. Because inevitably, Precious returns and asks, ďwhat are we doing, now?Ē
owl98 is offline   Reply With Quote
needmyjob needmyjob is offline
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 885
Senior Member

needmyjob
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 885
Senior Member
MrsPhysics
Old 09-28-2019, 12:55 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

I use only for communication for parents. I do not believe in the points. I even refused to use it when our school began, and told my P why! She agreed with me

My main reason about points is that parents see them, and they get mad at the teacher or argue that their child wouldn't deserve a reprimand. I like to keep my disciplinary procedures within my own class, and don't believe the parents have to know every single second of what happens with some of these little snowflakes.

The teacher that convinced P we should all use, has this whole store set-up with prizes. I don't have the money to be doing that, and I believe in giving my class rewards as surprises at unexpected times for doing what they should do in the classroom. I know there are plenty of ways to give non-material rewards for Dojo points earned as well on TPT.

I would love to read that tweet. Schools are not like prison, and Dojo is not the cause of that!

Last edited by needmyjob; 09-28-2019 at 01:16 PM.. Reason: Added comment
needmyjob is offline   Reply With Quote
ZipLine's Avatar
ZipLine ZipLine is offline
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,147
Senior Member

ZipLine
 
ZipLine's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,147
Senior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 01:11 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

I saw this on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/mochamomma/statu...642716164?s=21


ZipLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Kinderkr4zy's Avatar
Kinderkr4zy Kinderkr4zy is offline
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,466
Senior Member

Kinderkr4zy
 
Kinderkr4zy's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,466
Senior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 01:17 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

Well that tweeter is uninformed. IF she is so bent out of shape over seeing a basic, common, and data backed behavior management system then maybe she should home school her niece


Dojo points are just a form of token economy-which is what is suggested by behavior research as effected and is often found to be desirable BY STUDENTS who overwhelmingly self report that they like the system. Token economies (especially those where you can loose and gain tokens and access to reinforcers) have been studied and found to be effective in increasing desired behavior and decreasing undesirable behavior and increasing engagement.

see study here

When people who know nothing about teaching and/or behavior management make hyperbolic statements about these things it bugs the heck out of me.

That being said-I am not a Dojo user for the reasons PP mentioned. I use Bloomz and I turn on the behavior function because of parents acting like its a big deal. I use tickets-no need to inform parents about every ticket I give or take away, there are too many who would act like the tweeter because they just dont get it.
Kinderkr4zy is offline   Reply With Quote
applesaucencr applesaucencr is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 78
Junior Member

applesaucencr
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 78
Junior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 01:20 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

I would only use it for in class purposes. I prefer a simple point incentive system that focuses on positive behavior and work completion that is awarded to the whole class that I keep track of on a whiteboard and graph that get colored in by me or the students. I spend maybe a total of 5 minutes a day (if that) on it. And that is only because I need it for some management of an extremely chatty/loud class. If you have class that responds to verbal and visual cues to stay on track, don't bother with Dojo or points or whatever. I do plenty of fun things and recognize hard work, respect and kindness without daily tracking.

I only do individual things if the student *really* needs it. And even then, I think it should be kept to as basic of a plan as possible. the goal should be independence and weaning off individual plans.

IMO, reinforcers should be easy to use, and focus more on intrinsic satisfaction than prizes or special privileges/events. I use a ton on technology for learning but I am not wasting my time with Dojo. It can be misinterpreted too easily and seems to often generate complaints from parents.

On the flip side, my friend had some very tough classes in a tough school and tried different behavior management systems including Dojo. None of them worked. Those kids actually needed less reinforcers and more consequences...as did many of the parents.
applesaucencr is offline   Reply With Quote
imatchr2's Avatar
imatchr2 imatchr2 is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,548
Senior Member

imatchr2
 
imatchr2's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,548
Senior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 01:57 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #8

I can see using it as means of communicating with parents, much like REMIND. I would never use the points system. I don't believe in class clip charts either as a behaviour management system.
imatchr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
teachnkids's Avatar
teachnkids teachnkids is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,600
Senior Member

teachnkids
 
teachnkids's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,600
Senior Member

Old 09-28-2019, 02:14 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #9

Not a fan! I've seen teachers spending more time giving/taking dojo points than teaching and actually disciplining/explaining why they lost points the students!
teachnkids is offline   Reply With Quote
Summerwillcom Summerwillcom is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,738
Senior Member

Summerwillcom
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,738
Senior Member
I am not a fan
Old 09-28-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #10

of Dojo either. To me, it wastes time and the smartboard.


Summerwillcom is offline   Reply With Quote
MrsPhysics MrsPhysics is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member

MrsPhysics
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member
Very interesting responses - thank you!
Old 09-28-2019, 03:50 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #11

So no one officially gets the bonus points for the answer to what the response was like. The biggest to-do was something like ďHow dare they discipline a child for a basic human need! She will develop a bladder infection or worse! And children will be traumatized by gaining and losing points!Ē

For my classes at the HS, I do let the students use the restroom whenever they want. It still bugs me when a student leaves 5 minutes into class, and I demand that they find out what they missed themselves when they return. Occasionally we will hear from admin that some students are on restricted pass use and so we canít let them go.

For my classes at the MS, the school policy is 3 passes per 9-weeks in each class. We have constant problems with students messing around in the hall, even with multiple hall monitors. I will allow students to ask a friend to donate a pass to them if they need an extra.

My true opinion is that these parents need to relax and trust a little more in the teacher. A point system like Dojo seems like an acceptable way to shape good student habits. Perhaps if the teacher had given a point for not using the restroom during a lesson instead of taking one away it would have gone over better.

I believe that learning to use the restroom at opportune times is a soft skill that schools have been teaching for years, but now lawnmower parents canít have their babies learning these things by either being uncomfortable a few minutes or having the teacher give a small consequence. Adults need to be able to plan their bathroom visits. Many jobs would not accept a trip to the restroom except on a break. A consultant would not want to excuse themselves five minutes into a client presentation. Teachers often have to go the whole darn day!
MrsPhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Tori58 Tori58 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 516
Senior Member

Tori58
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 516
Senior Member
So, it's less a criticism of Class Dojo...
Old 09-29-2019, 03:55 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #12

...and more a matter of being upset that there were consequences for using the bathroom during instruction instead of during break time. Because Dojo doesn't make the rules, the teacher does. And, it may shock this individual to know that teachers have always constantly watched students. In fact, amazing as it seems, lots of parents watch their children, too!

Parents love to get upset about denying bathroom breaks. They always have some excuse why their precious little darling should not be expected to take care of bathroom needs during scheduled breaks like everyone else. They're always quite sure that their child would never ask to use the bathroom so they could walk the halls for a while or go in the bathroom and use their cell phone or because they don't want to do the lesson. But then I notice that a fair number of adults these days can't manage bathroom breaks without interrupting a meeting or leaving students unsupervised, either.

I think Dojo is a pretty good way to make older students understand that there's a consequence for taking a break in the middle of a lesson without having to waste class time having an argument about it. I also find that it makes me more accurate in tracking behavior and helps to make me more fair to those kids who may be disruptive in class sometimes but are also usually on task and also to be aware of the quiet, compliant kid who actually is never on task.
Tori58 is offline   Reply With Quote
mommy9298's Avatar
mommy9298 mommy9298 is offline
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,450
Senior Member

mommy9298
 
mommy9298's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,450
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 04:24 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #13

Everyone has an opinion about every management plan. Until a person teaches a class of students themselves and gets them to behave and learn, they should say nothing.
mommy9298 is offline   Reply With Quote
cruxian's Avatar
cruxian cruxian is offline
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,165
Senior Member

cruxian
 
cruxian's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,165
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 05:57 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #14

I've used it but found I was spending too much time thinking about it in the middle of class....like I was wanting to reward kids for working well independently when I was working with a small group (and they were working well) but then I had to take time to look around and award the points. But having said that, I'm over the bathroom thing. I have kids who claim they need to go every single day in my class. The thing is, we have a rotating schedule so I mostly have them at different times of day so...theoretically if they usually need to go around 10 and 2 (just as examples) that should be with different teachers each day of the week. Turns out the kids are (a) not taking advantage of the times they have to use the bathroom and (b) using it as an excuse to get out of class. Sometimes the kids will rat each other out: "You just used the bathroom last class." The thing is, they'll miss what we're doing and then be lost.
cruxian is offline   Reply With Quote
Squiggley Squiggley is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2
New Member

Squiggley
 
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2
New Member
The bathroom
Old 09-29-2019, 06:30 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #15

The bathroom thing is hard. My students have lunch,recess then specials before coming to me. They can go at lunch, recess is trickier but possible and the specials teachers won't let them go at all. The bathrooms are in a different part of the building than their classrooms. I had so many going the first 20 minutes of class that I just do a bathroom break for the class when they all come in my room. Once my lesson is done, I have a sign out log, one student at a time can sign out and go. They have to sign back inbefore someone else can leave.

I use Dojo for positive only with no parent connection. I don't like it but it is required by my campus.
Squiggley is offline   Reply With Quote
MrsPhysics MrsPhysics is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member

MrsPhysics
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member
They were very negative on the whole concept
Old 09-29-2019, 06:37 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #16

Quote:
and more a matter of being upset that there were consequences for using the bathroom during instruction instead of during break time. Because Dojo doesn't make the rules, the teacher does. And, it may shock this individual to know that teachers have always constantly watched students. In fact, amazing as it seems, lots of parents watch their children, too!
Yes, the biggest problem they had was with the bathroom thing, but they also were negative on the whole idea of Class Dojo. I just have a hard time with a bunch of people (including zero teachers from what I could see) so outraged about a simple behavior management system. They consider having a point deduction to be a harsh consequence when it seems like most teachers just use it as a way to keep track of how the studentís classroom behavior is coming along.

I feel like teachers are more accommodating of students needs and more sensitive to not punishing a child too harshly than ever before. I mean, when I was in school we wouldíve been terrified to even ask the teacher to go to the bathroom during class. I donít even think there was a procedure...there were designated times when the whole class went, and that was that. Staying in from recess, sitting in the corner during lunch, and of course detention were actual punishments. Now, teachers have to go out of our ways to make activities geared toward what kids like to do. Make sure they are getting movement, that they are manipulating things with their hands, etc. I donít disagree with these concepts, itís just that I feel that the expectation that students could sit and Participate in a 20-minute lesson has gone out the door.

A couple of years ago, I had a student who was gone for long periods (like 20 minutes of class) almost every day. I tried to put an end to it, but then the parents brought in some excuse, maybe IBS. I complied with allowing him to go as often and as long as he needed. Parents were wondering why he was failing math and could I tutor him after school? He was missing half of class every day!
MrsPhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
BoredCoTeach
 
 
Guest

BoredCoTeach
 
 
Guest
Data is Scary
Old 09-29-2019, 06:43 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #17

For the past two years, I have taught in an urban school, learned about data policy, and picked up the hobby of technologist. I am against Class Dojo.

1. ) It's easily hackable. It's backend is not as secure, as a teacher would like, and one can access the information - parent names/child's names - very easily. In 90 seconds, I can get into a class list and share it with whomever I desire.

2.) Data, Data, Data. Our students' information is being consumed into a data pile. From pre-K to 12th grade, everything is being held, and those kids are being sorted into can dos/have nots. In teams (I have been on one), the kids are being sorted into who are most likely to succeed, who will be in jail. It's scary. Cities across the country have such teams, and they pass the info. to police depts.

If you want to use it, assign kids fake names and develop a fake teacher profile. However, I can trace the data to your school by IP address.
  Reply With Quote
Readingal's Avatar
Readingal Readingal is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,111
Senior Member

Readingal
 
Readingal's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,111
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 07:02 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #18

First of all, I get so frustrated when people bash teachers. Even if I donít agree with what might have happened I believe teachers are doing their best and we have very different and often difficult situations to deal with.

I personally donít like Dojo. I donít like token economies. And I think Dojo is too publicly displayed. I feel bad for the kids who never have very many points and thereís their score displayed on the board. Everyone knows exactly how many points everyone has. Thatís why I personally donít use it. However, if it works effectively for others (which I know it does) then they should continue to use it in whatever manner they see fit.
Readingal is offline   Reply With Quote
Tori58 Tori58 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 516
Senior Member

Tori58
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 516
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 07:15 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #19

Quote:
I just have a hard time with a bunch of people (including zero teachers from what I could see) so outraged about a simple behavior management system. They consider having a point deduction to be a harsh consequence
Yes, this is what they're outraged about. In today's world, there should be no point deductions, only points earned for good behavior. There should be no criticism, only compliments. Rewards should be lavish for marginally acceptable behavior. A teacher is not allowed to show or voice displeasure with a student's behavior anymore. Yet, somehow, miraculously, we are supposed to keep kids from bullying each other and improve achievement every year. It's ridiculous.
Tori58 is offline   Reply With Quote
jov's Avatar
jov jov is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 913
Senior Member

jov
 
jov's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 913
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #20

Quote:
And I think Dojo is too publicly displayed. I feel bad for the kids who never have very many points and thereís their score displayed on the board. Everyone knows exactly how many points everyone has.
I agree, but I avoided this problem in first grade by having a 100 point goal (reward was a certificate) and then the child returns to zero. After a couple of weeks, the scores are all over the place and it's impossible to rank them.

I also had a separate whole class thing on Dojo where we would get extra recess when we reached 120. Those points were for great class behavior in difficult times, for praise from specialists and other adults, etc.

This really helped with math. Kids were constantly figuring out how many more points they needed or the class needed to reach our goals.

I never opened this up to parents... what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas! Some teachers at another school did open it up to parents and a giant, nasty, facebook, parent-teacher imbroglio occured. The district banned Dojo after that. We had used it responsibly at our school, but all schools got punished!
jov is offline   Reply With Quote
Lilbitkm Lilbitkm is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,857
Senior Member

Lilbitkm
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,857
Senior Member

Old 09-29-2019, 02:34 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #21

I use Dojo for the communication piece and I do use points but only for rewards.

My students earn points for completing homework (not completed is a neutral so it doesnít deduct points but parents are notified), passing AR tests, earning class compliments, and table points for being prepared as a table.
I do not deduct points and they do not earn based on behavior. Mainly because I can just imagine the amount of parent messages I would receive over small points being deducted.
Lilbitkm is offline   Reply With Quote
okie_gal okie_gal is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
New Member

okie_gal
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4
New Member
Class Dojo
Old 09-29-2019, 03:40 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #22

I am not a huge fan. I do not like when it is publically posted on the Smartboard for everyone to see. I would never take points away for using the bathroom having had many bathroom issues personally when I was younger. Having to beg to use the bathroom is mortifying. But, I also understand that students using the bathroom during the middle of a lesson should not be a common occurrence.

BTW- the Twitter thread posted was started by Mocha Momma, a wonderful lady who is a TEACHER. She was in the classroom for years before now offering workshops. She knows her business.
okie_gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Kinderkr4zy's Avatar
Kinderkr4zy Kinderkr4zy is offline
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,466
Senior Member

Kinderkr4zy
 
Kinderkr4zy's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,466
Senior Member

Old 09-30-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #23

Quote:
BTW- the Twitter thread posted was started by Mocha Momma, a wonderful lady who is a TEACHER. She was in the classroom for years before now offering workshops. She knows her business.
If this is true I was beyond disgusted. What kind of a teacher publicly bashes the methods of another teacher-on social media no less. I am furious at the idea of someone who has been in the teaching trenches and listened to hate spewed at teacher at every turn would be part of the perpetuation of the idea that teachers are stupid, mean, and vindictive. WTF.

And I also find it astonishing that a teacher who ďknows her businessĒ would have such a lack of understanding about token economies and PBIS systems (dojo is considered PBIS by the way). Has she never worked with a behaviorist? They always suggest token economies as a first line of support for behavior support for those who struggle. And her follow up tweet about ďask them for research to back up this policy. They will have no idea what to sayĒ. WTF! Like teachers donít use data/research backed strategies and we choose what to do willie nilly-like we arenít learned professionals who go into the data to support our practice. If she is a teacher I am 100000 times more offended than if it was just another armchair pedagogist.
Kinderkr4zy is offline   Reply With Quote
MrsPhysics MrsPhysics is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member

MrsPhysics
 
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 95
Full Member
First tweet was not a teacher
Old 09-30-2019, 05:27 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #24

Quote:
If she is a teacher I am 100000 times more offended than if it was just another armchair pedagogist.
The original thread was NOT a teacher tweet. In fact, I donít remember a single response being from a teacher either. However, I think that somewhere in the replies on this thread, someone posted a tweet from the former teacher mentioned above. Her tweet was encouraging parents to join together and protest the use of Class Dojo to get it out of the classroom. She was approaching it from a best practices standpoint.
MrsPhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
apple annie's Avatar
apple annie apple annie is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,040
Senior Member

apple annie
 
apple annie's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,040
Senior Member

Old 09-30-2019, 06:35 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #25

I think it doesn’t matter what anyone’s opinion is of how Class Dojo is implemented, except the teacher who is using it. It’s she or he who has to manage the behavior of 25 or do kids and find time to actually teach on top of it. Whatever system and plan she has found that works for her, she should use it. Kids need to learn to follow the procedure whatever it is. It’s not unreasonable to expect a kid to “hold it” for ten minutes. By the time a kid is in middle school she’s been potty trained for a good ten years. If there’s s medical issue, send a note. I tell my kids if you’re literally going to pee your pants, get up and go. Then accept the very minor consequence that you’ll be given. You’ll live.
apple annie is offline   Reply With Quote
kindiesarefun kindiesarefun is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
New Member

kindiesarefun
 
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
New Member

Old 09-30-2019, 07:52 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #26

In my school we use the Responsive Classroom approach and no teacher uses any form of public discipline such as clip charts or color change. We believe it robs students of their dignity.
kindiesarefun is offline   Reply With Quote

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
The VENT
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:41 PM.

Copyright © 2019 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net