Staffing companies - ProTeacher Community




Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      Substitute Teachers

Staffing companies

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Nietzsche's Avatar
Nietzsche Nietzsche is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Nietzsche
 
Nietzsche's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member
Staffing companies
Old 01-31-2019, 12:29 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

The following was in my local newspaper:

Quote:
Approved an agreement with Kelly Services Inc., a Troy, Mich.-based global employment agency in operation for 73 years, to provide substitute teachers, teacher aides, instructional aides and administration assistants beginning July l, and directed the administration to provide notice of cancellation to Source4Teachers, of Cherry Hill, N.J., the agency that has provided subs to the district since 2015.

The agency’s fee for placing substitute teachers, para-educators, aides and clerical workers is 32.5 percent of the employee’s daily or hourly wage.

The district would be required to pay 10 percent of the annual salary for a Kelly temp who is hired full time by the district less than 60 days after being placed as a substitute; the fee is 5 percent of the salary for one hired full time after 61 to 90 days as a sub; and would pay no fee if a long-term sub is hired full-time after more than 90 days of service.
Doesn't this finder's fee discourage the district from hiring any subs as full time employees? Why would someone who wants a full-time job with this district sub for the district? Doesn't it also discourage the district from hiring subs who they are familiar with, and instead hire people who there only encounter has been an interview.

It is not clear from this wording if the finderr's fee would apply to subs who worked for Source4Teachers.

I would think the district was in a position to negotiate this item out of the contract. I'm also shocked that Kelly Services gets 32.5% of the sub pay keeping tack of clearances, etc.


Nietzsche is offline   Reply With Quote

OneGreatSub OneGreatSub is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 42
Junior Member

OneGreatSub
 
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 42
Junior Member

Old 02-01-2019, 08:32 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

The district was already outsourcing the hiring of subs, aides, and administrative assistants, so apparently Kelly offered them a better deal. Yes, the fees are outrageous, and the district honchos must be very lazy to turn the hiring of people who play vital roles in education over to an expensive staffing firm. I'm amazed that subs sign on with these companies if there are nearby districts that hire subs directly. I think it's an insult to the substitute teachers and classroom/instructional aides who are on the front lines to lump them together with the people who sit in the office all day.

The district I work for looks at subs as a necessary evil and would never consider hiring a sub into a full time position, so perhaps that district has the same mindset. I think any district that uses a corporate service to staff those positions doesn't think much of the people who fill them.
OneGreatSub is offline   Reply With Quote
SubMan SubMan is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,411
Senior Member

SubMan
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,411
Senior Member

Old 02-02-2019, 01:26 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

This is standard Kelly Services language for their contracts. You are also correct on all accounts. Several years ago I did some looking into the Kelly Services contract and I found the same language. I live in a district that uses Kelly Services for subs. I used to sub for Kelly Services but no longer do so because of the finders fee if I were be employed by the district.

Other subs have gotten the message as well and this district is having trouble getting subs. I know several subs and some teachers, secretaries, and principals who tell me how bad it is. Before Christmas break one sub had to be sent from the middle school to the high school so teachers there could get lunches.
SubMan is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member
Even worse...
Old 02-02-2019, 08:35 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

Yep. Outsourcing is very common practice among employers these days. In the past, I worked through agencies as a technical writer contractor. And yes, these agencies all charge a fee if the employer wants to hire you full time. In general, employers outsource to reduce costs, not to find eligible job candidates.

The problem too is that when subs are "temps" and not district employees, it just adds to the perception that they are "outsiders." However, an even worse trend is happening these days. The shady practice of hiring workers (including subs) as "independent contractors."

In my state, this is already commonplace among charter schools. The problem is that as an independent contractor, you are NOT anyone's employee. There are NO benefits, NO sick leave. You are expected to carry liability insurance, pay all your own taxes, and you are not eligible for unemployment insurance or workers compensation.

Substitute teachers should not be classified as independent contractors! Neither the job description nor the pay warrant it. This classification is often used illegally (as in recent cases of Uber drivers). Employers use it to duck all responsibility (while still retaining control), and it puts all the liability on the workers' shoulders.

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 02-02-2019 at 10:02 AM..
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
CC96 CC96 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 140
Full Member

CC96
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 140
Full Member
I hope
Old 02-02-2019, 09:24 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

That my district’s don’t go the way of agencies.


CC96 is offline   Reply With Quote
ThankaTchr's Avatar
ThankaTchr ThankaTchr is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,498
Senior Member

ThankaTchr
 
ThankaTchr's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,498
Senior Member
I don't see how they could even be considered
Old 02-02-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

independent contractors b/c (through my DH self-employed business) the language is written so that "contractors" are under no one's expectations but their own, therefore the P or any other person couldn't come in and expect anything!!
ThankaTchr is offline   Reply With Quote
Subtastic's Avatar
Subtastic Subtastic is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 341
Full Member

Subtastic
 
Subtastic's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 341
Full Member

Old 02-02-2019, 08:05 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

You also lose any future pension benefits when the district decides to outsource.
Source 4 Teachers dumped me because I wasn't subbing enough. I got a automatic warning message, and then one day I knew my time was up with them. I noticed all the jobs were gone.

STS is a little more employee friendly, but I noticed that every week there are dozens of jobs that go unfilled. So when these agencies make the argument they do a better job of filling jobs, I question that.
I think if districts hired directly, paid a decent wage, say $130 a day with limited benefits and access to professional development opportunities, they wouldn't have such a hard time finding substitutes.
Subtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member
illegal classification as independent contrs.
Old 02-03-2019, 09:28 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #8

As another poster pointed out, substitute teachers do not fit the legal definition of "independent contractors," at least not the definition in my state. That doesn't stop companies from using it anyway.

There's a subcontracting company named "Swing" that recruits substitute teachers as "independent contractors" and hires them out to charter schools. They pay cash up front, but the pay rate is only a little above what the districts pay their subs. I believe few of the subs that sign up with them realize that they are being illegally classified. And judging from the sweeping recruitment Swing does and the number of jobs that get posted (usually last minute the morning of), I'd say there's a huge turnover.

The problem is that subs who subcontract with Swing are not employees. They have no legal protections at all, and Swing is not responsible for taxes, unemployment insurance, or workers' comp. Nor do these subs qualify for state mandated sick leave, as they are misclassified as "private contractors," rather than employees.

As shocking as this seems, it's becoming commonplace. I have (briefly) worked for 2 other organizations that misused the "independent contractor" classification to avoid liability and cut costs. Both organizations were headquartered outside of my state. I submitted a complaint against one of them to my state employment division, but never heard a thing. There's the rub. It takes a class action suit (as in the case of Uber drivers) to take these companies to task.

In the meantime, I'd recommend that anyone who subs stay far way from Swing or any other agency that wants to subcontract you to substitute teaching jobs as an "independent contractor." With all the potential liability we face as subs, it's dangerous to put yourself on the hook as a "non employee." Sooner or later, you'll get thrown under the bus. Beware!

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 02-03-2019 at 10:45 AM..
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Nietzsche's Avatar
Nietzsche Nietzsche is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Nietzsche
 
Nietzsche's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Old 02-03-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #9

"In general, employers outsource to reduce costs, not to find eligible job candidates."

My previous life is in information technology. We often hired contractors for many reasons but reducing costs was not one of them. We would hire people for project specific jobs such as installing a new application. We would hire people for short term projects such as a network installation or large moves of people. The other reason was we needed specific expense expertise but could not find a person with the right skill set. I often hired people who we had used as contractors. It was a good way to evaluate a person's skill and work ethic. It was almost always more expensive on an hourly rate to hire a contractor rather than a permanent employee. It was also easier to reduce staff with contractors.
Nietzsche is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member
High tech contracting vs subs in schools
Old 02-03-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #10

I was also in tech. I was a technical writer for several years, working mainly with software engineering firms. I was called a contractor, but was hired by outsourcing agencies and was their employee, not an independent contractor. The agencys did the tax withholding and paid for unemployment insurance and workers comp. They even offered some benefits. When the assignment finished, I was eligible for unemployment pay.

There's a big difference between working as an employee of an agency and being hired or subcontracted as an independent contractor. True (legally classified) independent contractors are well paid specialists who are hired to do a specific job. They can negotiate their own pay rate, their own hours, and may provide their own tools. They operate independently as a private business and have a lot of autonomy. They are not low wage temps who work for and are managed by an agency and are used to replace the company's staff (in order to downsize and save money). We're talking apples and oranges here.

Substitute teachers are not highly skilled, highly paid specialists. Classifying them as independent contractors is just plain wrong (not to mention illegal). It does a huge injustice to the subs (for reasons I mentioned previously).



Last edited by luv2teach2017; 02-03-2019 at 02:36 PM..
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Nietzsche's Avatar
Nietzsche Nietzsche is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Nietzsche
 
Nietzsche's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Old 02-03-2019, 03:26 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #11

"True (legally classified) independent contractors are well paid specialists who are hired to do a specific job. They can negotiate their own pay rate, their own hours, and may provide their own tools."

This isn't always the case. The classic case is FedEx. There have been numerous class action lawsuits across the country. FedEx is still using the independent contractor model. They force drivers to own multiple routes and assume all liability, yet these contractors can't negotiate pay, hours, or any thing to do with working conditions.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fedex-los...gainst-drivers

https://www.overtimepaylaws.org/are-...-or-employees/

http://smlr.rutgers.edu/sites/defaul...na_article.pdf
Nietzsche is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member
Yes...Fed ex and Uber drivers
Old 02-03-2019, 03:41 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #12

Yes! That's exactly my point. The Fed Ex drivers AND Uber drivers have been illegally misclassified as "independent contractors." Just as I mentioned in a previous post...in the same way, Swing has been misclassifying substitute teachers as independent contractors.

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 02-03-2019 at 06:56 PM..
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
NJSubteacher NJSubteacher is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 575
Senior Member

NJSubteacher
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 575
Senior Member

Old 02-04-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #13

Any school district dumb enough to outsource their subs to another staffing company is just going to face a harder time getting new subs and keeping the ones they have. Any time a crappy company like Source4teachers or Kelly services takes over a school district to handle subs, Run Away! They will cut your pay and create a more miserable work experience. The one thing WE can do to prevent school districts from comsidering these companies is to leave these agencies bad reviews on social media, yelp, and google. Expose them for the frauds they are!
NJSubteacher is offline   Reply With Quote
luv2teach2017 luv2teach2017 is offline
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member

luv2teach2017
 
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 252
Full Member
beware of "independent contractor" label
Old 02-04-2019, 04:10 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #14

Quote:
Any time a crappy company like Source4teachers or Kelly services takes over a school district to handle subs, Run Away!
Good point.

I'll also add another reason why you should beware of being hired as what's called an "independent contractor." You are considered self employed and so have a hard time getting car loans, home loans, refinancing, etc.

A few years ago, I worked as a technical writer through Kelly services. I was hired as a Kelly Services employee, and they hired me to work for a start up firm. But about a year into it, the startup wanted to cancel their contract with Kelly and make me an "independent contractor" for the same pay. I balked at that because I knew my expenses and liability would increase. Even worse, at the time, I was applying to refinance my home and I knew that if I was reclassified as "self employed," it would blow my chances of getting refinanced! I explained my situation to the startup manager, and fortunately, he agreed to continue hiring me through Kelly Services as a Kelly "employee".

As bad as these temp agencies are, the dregs are the subcontracting agencies (such as Swing) who attempt to hire low-wage earning workers as "self employed independent contractors." Not only is it illegal to do so, but it's a big ripoff for the workers! This is the new low on the employment scene.
luv2teach2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
subasaurus subasaurus is offline
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 517
Senior Member

subasaurus
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 517
Senior Member
Ugh.
Old 02-04-2019, 08:32 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #15

These corporate sub agencies are all bottom feeders in my view.
subasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Nietzsche's Avatar
Nietzsche Nietzsche is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Nietzsche
 
Nietzsche's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 450
Senior Member

Old 02-20-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #16

Source4Teachers/ESS has sent out a new policy regarding subs participating in physical activity in P.E. classes. They are requesting that electronically sign a Physical Activity Acknowledgement Form. They sent out a second e-mail to clarify that, "the goal of the policy is to restrict physical activity outside of what is required for your current position and the needs of the student(s) you are serving."

I guess some subs got hurt in gym class.
Nietzsche is offline   Reply With Quote
MaineSub MaineSub is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,280
Senior Member

MaineSub
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,280
Senior Member
Just to add...
Old 02-21-2019, 05:00 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #17

I sub as an employee of the district, so this is not about subbing. However, I do a lot of "education" related work in addition to subbing. Almost all of it is done on an independent contractor basis. There are some significant advantages to working as an independent contractor including the fact you are operating as a business and can write off a number of expenses. Since I'm not a tax expert I won't go much further than that, but I recently was offered a "gig" and the company wanted to hire me as an employee. My accountant and I determined that it was going to make a huge difference in my net income. My point is beware of generalities and painting with a broad brush. The company trying to hire me was convinced I would not qualify for IC status but after further investigation decided I did. They also found that they were going to save money as well.

As for agencies--the original question--the quoted article (last paragraph) is referring to fees charged IF the person is hired as an employee within 90 days of placement by Kelly. After 90 days, there is no fee. This practice is fairly common with agencies--this one is actually less restrictive than many I have seen. So to the OP question, yes, it would potentially discourage the district hiring the employee but not forever.

There is, however, much that is unclear in the article but it's a newspaper article, not the actual agreement.

Companies (and districts) hire agencies for many reasons. While districts do not typically have a profit center mentality, the most common one is to save money and hassle. There is a growing trend towards a twist on this where the company actually hires employees but outsources "employee management" to a company handles all the "stuff" related to employees: payroll, required documentation, legal compliance, etc. Life is not getting any less complicated.
MaineSub is offline   Reply With Quote

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
Substitute Teachers
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:03 AM.

Copyright © 2017 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net