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NewCAteacher NewCAteacher is offline
 
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I want to slap this student
Old 04-15-2019, 06:22 AM
 
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I have a student on my caseload who to put it lightly, is just an a******. His answer for everything is “I don’t know” or “when can I leave?” Or “this is boring/stupid/etc etc.” He does zero work all day long. He has a pretty significant learning disability but he is completely capable of behaving respectfully. I refuse to believe that all of his behavior stems from him “just feeling bad about himself.”

I have other students on my caseload who have ADHD, Autism, and emotional disorders. Yes, sometimes it is challenging to constantly address those behaviors, but none of them get under my skin the way this kid does. Plus, I do think my other students actually want to do well, but they have behaviors that sometimes prevent them from learning.

This kid is disrespectful towards all adults. I wish I could drop him from resource because I feel like I am wasting 3 hours of my day trying to educate a brick wall (because he does nothing all day except talk back). However, if I drop him from resource, I know he would sit in his class all day mouthing off to his teacher, disrupt everyone, and do even less work. UGH!!


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Old 04-15-2019, 06:33 AM
 
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How can you drop him from resource if he has an IEP?

I don't love the title of your post.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:36 AM
 
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This sounds really frustrating. I suspect you’ve tried every trick in your book to engage him. What’s going on with his home life? Could give you a clue.

I think every now and then we get a student we just don’t mesh with. I found I did my job with them, but I couldn’t invested any emotion in it.
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Home life
Old 04-15-2019, 07:33 AM
 
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He has a pretty supportive home life. Parents are very sweet. I think sometimes, regardless of how kind the parents are, kids can just be rude. I agree that I can’t show frustration, instead I turn to other students who want to learn and give them attention. He is also very disrespectful towards other teachers, principal, support staff. The other day he told a yard duty to bend over and spell the word “run.” Just...wow. He’s 12.
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Clarification
Old 04-15-2019, 07:35 AM
 
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What I should have said is that we are allowed to lower their minutes if resource is a true waste of time for them. I don’t think dropping him would solve the problem because I don’t think it’s okay for him to behave this way in his classroom either



Last edited by NewCAteacher; 04-15-2019 at 07:36 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:52 AM
 
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Have you ever been totally direct with him and asked why he is being so rude to you? I worked with a male teacher who would just call out any of his students on their rudeness in a very direct and matter of fact way. "Why are you being rude/disrespectful?" "Why should I ... when you are being disrespectful?" "What did I do to deserve your disrespect?" I think his question shocked the student and made them think. He's an awesome person and a wonderful role model to elementary age students, especially boys. Wonder what your student would say if you just asked him why the attitude.
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He gets under your skin.
Old 04-15-2019, 11:47 AM
 
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And you're letting him. He has figured out exactly what buttons to push, and he's pushing the heck out of them.
In my experience, there are very, very few students who DON'T want to do well. In fact, I have never actually had a student that didn't want to do well. I have had students that didn't know HOW to do well, though.
He may have an underlying emotional/behavioral issue that you don't know about, or that hasn't been diagnosed. Just because his parents are sweet and supportive doesn't mean the kid is just a jerk.
Behavior is communication. This kid is desperately trying to tell the adults in his life what is going on, but he doesn't know how. It may not do any good to ask him why he's doing it, because he may not know.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:13 PM
 
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I don’t lose my $&@t on him. I walk away and pay attention to other students. Maybe there’s no emotional disturbance but I’ve worked with this student for years and he has been extremely rude all along. Some people are just disrespectful. Sure they may have issues causing it but they are still disrespectful, and still not enjoyable to be around. I know it’s hard to believe that about a kid.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:54 PM
 
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I get it. I understand your title. This is a vent on the vent board, come on people! I’m in a middle school. A student just got arrested in class last week, not mine though I would love to have seen it! He broke 9 windows with a golf club. I’ve had him in class. The don’t care, won’t try, want to argue attitude has been there all along. He needs more help than a teacher can give. Yes, there are kids like this. Yes, teachers get frustrated with their behavior. We’re human.
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Venting
Old 04-15-2019, 04:06 PM
 
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travelingfar 04-15-2019 06:33 AM wrote I don't love the title of your post.

I am positive that you really didn't mean that you "were going to slap this student". These are just "venting words"!

When we are venting it is usually because we care. We are at our wits end, we are trying to understand the student and we are looking for help.

I understand what you are going through and I also believe that you feel like you are a horrible teacher because you can't reach this student.

Sometimes I wish teachers would just give us some good advice or maybe just be there for us because we are struggling. I know when I feel judged it just makes me feel even worse.

New teacher just take a breath and try to start every day fresh. It is hard to deal with someone who really doesn't want to learn. Do YOUR best though and who knows maybe something will stick in his mind.


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Old 04-15-2019, 04:27 PM
 
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Dutch Girl. Thank you. You are so right. So tired of some teachers shooting down other teachers for just having the slightest negative thought about a student. We are all human. What she is feeling is normal. Please face it. Many of our kids will grow up to be psychopath and killers. Yes, they do pass through our classrooms every day and every year. This year I have three that I fear for my well being.

Thank you to the OP. A disability doesn't give you a right to disrupt the learning environment for the regular students EVER. If the disability is the source of aggressiveness, that in itself should be enough to remove them.

One year, I had a student in a 30+ class. He had three cards in his desk: Green, yellow, red. If he lifted the red card, I had to evacuate the classroom or remove him. Which ever was more appropriate. If it was yellow I had to find help right away. Do you know what a nightmare this was? I had to teach a class full of students, having to monitor the student aggressiveness level, and keep the other students safe. This was not the only accommodation that I had in that classroom either.

Do you really think I should worry about whether or not he has a nice family, he is poor or rich, someone is hurting him. Really? What about the other 34 students under my care? Do they even matter?

This student had the opportunity every single day to get out of his desk, stab someone in my classroom and NOTHING would have been done to him due to his disability status.
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Thank you
Old 04-15-2019, 04:31 PM
 
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Yes, you just summed it up perfectly!! Today I had him do a speech to text assignment and while he completed very little of it, he did some and at least that is an improvement
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Yes
Old 04-15-2019, 04:34 PM
 
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Exactly..human we are! Obviously we need to remain professional, as I’m sure the vast majority of teachers on here do. Deep breaths...the end is near!
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Slap this student
Old 04-15-2019, 04:46 PM
 
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This is a vent board! I completely understand your feelings because I have at least two this year that at times I would like to also.
We are not robots and having a feeling does not make you a bad person -it makes you human. I have had a few supervisors and co-workers I have felt that way too about!!!
Try to remember that it is not about you. No matter what the student does or refuses to do, it is not about you!
Best of Luck! Next year will bring a whole new group of crazies so, don't worry a new chance to test your patience is coming!
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:50 PM
 
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I get your title! Last year, and year before, I felt this way with a couple of students. Horrible, horrible years. I just tried hard to focus on the ones who wanted to be there to learn, and took it day by day. I almost quit over this type of student last year when admin wasn’t supportive. I hope your school year is winding down, and you won’t have him again next year. Blessings.
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:38 AM
 
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I'm sorry the student is really challenging. Working with a student like that is exhausting.

We all think negative things about students and are welcome to vent here. I didn't like the reference to wanting to hit a student, however.

I have been immensely frustrated, but my mind never went there.

Last edited by travelingfar; 04-16-2019 at 04:42 AM..
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:32 AM
 
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Sometimes students are just rude and difficult - they're humans after all and some humans are that way no matter the age! I know it's even harder to deal with when the kid doesn't even seem to have a good "reason." I'm so sorry you're having to deal with that this year. I hope there's some way for it to get better!
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:04 AM
 
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Sorry this student is so difficult. Has the IEP team considered psychological counseling for him as part of his services? It sounds like he has a lot of anger and animosity due to always being so far behind and incapable of doing the work of his grade level peers.

I understand when people say that having a learning disability isn't an excuse for behavior. It does impact behavior for some. And some even have a learning disability and psychological problems.

I always try to put myself in the shoes of the student for a bit when I do get overwhelmed. You see him for an hour or so a day. He has to go to school every day, year after year, regardless of whether those classes are actually benefiting him or not. Obviously they are not whether it be for academic or psychological reasons. Now imagine if you sucked at your job, had no say in where you worked or what you were expected to do. However, you were expected to get better at it even if you didn't get the support that worked for you. Rinse and repeat for 13 years. Also remembering this is supposed to be the thing everyone is pretty good at - but you suck at it. Be kind to everyone. Be respectful. Don't give up even though you aren't really getting much better at it. When you don't do or behave the way expected, you are the problem and others resent you for it. Then, when you aren't doing well, someone tells a loved one about your faux paux. Do this every day. Smile, be kind, be polite.

When I think of what we do to students, especially the ones where we try our best and it really isn't working well, this helps me stop and take a breath. While the behavior may be unacceptable and need to change, the student is only part of the solution. We hold the reins on what help the child will receive.

You have an angry, defeated child in your room who feels incapable of progress. His anger comes out as rudeness and his current inability comes out as giving up.

I say, try to get this child some psychological help and really look closely at his plan. It isn't working. Fewer minutes in resource isn't the answer.
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I can see
Old 04-16-2019, 05:13 AM
 
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I can see how my title would make me look like an awful person, especially to those who don’t know me in person!
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Venting
Old 04-16-2019, 06:44 AM
 
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I am really happy to see that this is the second post where people stood up for the OP!

OP, you mentioned how you're nothing like the person people might have perceived from the post; my posts have been negative (I have two handles because I can't remember the passwords lol) but it is because I am so stressed that I have to come here to vent. My students and coworkers will tell you that I am the nicest person who listens and doesn't judge. Let's be honest, if you're here it is because you are under tremendous stress and don't know what to do. If we are to treat students as humans and not a subgroup, then it is logical to say that just like I don't like every person, I don't like every student. Someone mentioned them growing up to be serial killers. Some of the behaviors are not due to age, but an indication of how this child will grown into an adult. Just my two cents.

Again, really happy to see that support!
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I wasn't bashing the OP.
Old 04-16-2019, 08:33 AM
 
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I feel like sometimes when people are venting it's because they are frustrated and out of ideas for handling a situation. I have a lot of experience with children with behavioral issues, such as ODD and conduct disorder, and other behavioral issues that cause students to act out and behave disrespectfully towards adults. Because of this, I tend to look at these situations from a different perspective.
I wasn't trying to bash the OP in any way, simply offering a different perspective on difficult behaviors.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:09 AM
 
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I firmly believe that a******s are created, not born. Sometimes it's really hard to figure out what's going on.

I would agree that a learning disability, by itself, doesn't typically cause this type of behavior. But, sometimes kids who are highly intelligent but learning disabled feel a lot of anger because some people act as though their intelligence is lacking. Sometimes kids like this get compared to siblings or cousins who are highly intelligent but not learning disabled and they're angry about that. The fact that this kid is so skilled at getting under your skin may mean that he's both highly intelligent and highly intuitive and, since he's also clearly angry, this means that he's definitely highly manipulative.

Sometimes parents who seem very sweet can, nevertheless, be the problem. Extreme permissiveness is a form of abuse in and of itself, in my opinion. Some parents can put on a good show when they're at the school but things may be completely different at home. Maybe he's being sexually abused and his parents are too sweet and kind to allow themselves to suspect a friend or relative.

I admit that I have had students who were impossible for me to like. There's one who was in my class probably 15 years ago. She's an adult now. I encounter her from time to time in the community and I still can't stand her. You can't help how you feel but I have found that it is easier to deal with those kids if I consciously try to think of all the things that might be contributing to their behavior. Sometimes I have to reach for my compassion by saying to myself, "Well, I have to deal with you for a few years but you have to BE you all your life. That's so sad."
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:43 AM
 
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We have an old saying in Elem. The hardest ones to love need it the most. I had a girl like this a few years ago. You could tell how disturbed she was just by looking at her. I was talking to her classroom teacher the other day and she said she went to her house to give her a bed. She didnt have a bed to sleep in. Said the house had no windows , no electricity and was awful. Dixie said they took the bed from her for the "boys" but she got the futon. I learned my first year (1978) teaching in a middle school that some of these kids are amazing considering the degradation and misery they come from. Sure, we want to kill them sometimes but when you really learn about their lives away from school you sometimes just shake your head and cry.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:36 AM
 
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There’s definitely some truth here. Now that I’ve had a chance to unwind from the situation, I can take this into consideration. He’s still not someone I enjoy, but I’ve got to dig deep and stay positive. Just a couple weeks left!
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We need a place to vent
Old 04-16-2019, 03:33 PM
 
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Free from judgment.
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I understand.
Old 04-19-2019, 09:48 AM
 
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I have a student right now in my general ed classroom that is similar. Since day one, he has put forth little to no effort in my class. He acts like he can’t do anything but I know he can do more than he lets on. He lets his special ed status be a crutch.

One day this week, he wasn’t doing his work so as I was walking around I just said “you need to get busy.” He replied, “I don’t want to do it.” I said,”would me writing a referral make you get to work?” Because at this point, I had had it with him. His excuse for everything is “I don’t know how.” I go over everything with them. I model it over and over so there is no excuse.

He started acting like I couldn’t do that. So I asked him,”what would happen if you were at work and your boss told you to do something and you told him that you didn’t want to?” He said that that was different because he would be getting paid to do a job and he isn’t getting paid to do schoolwork. I told him well I’m trying to teach you to be a good worker one day in the future because you’re not going to always like being told what to do by your boss but if you want to keep getting paid, you’ll do it anyway.

I work too hard to help each student learn so I totally get your frustration with that student just using the cop out excuse of “I don’t know.”
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