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Grammar piggyback-Mines
Old 08-04-2020, 02:24 AM
  #1

I cringe when I hear people say "mines" used like this- "That's mines" or "Mines is the color red.". I work in an inner city with mostly Hispanic students. I also work with a lot of Hispanic teachers and admin. Students, parents, admin, and teachers say it. It drives me up a wall. I am not saying all Hispanic people say it, but where I live it happens a lot! I think it is a regional and cultural thing for this area. One of my close teacher friends says it all the time and I have to bite my tongue so hard to not correct her!



Last edited by Jackie; 08-04-2020 at 03:02 AM..
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:02 AM
  #2

Definitely common with Puerto Ricans, along with double negatives...saying "stood" instead of "stayed"...and a few other quirks I can't think of off the top of my head. My dh was of Puerto Rican extraction, and I remember those quirks fondly now, although at the time, they grated on my ears too.

Maybe "mines" comes from overextension of English rules. We say "This is yours" so why not "That is mines"?

Some of the other language quirks (like double negatives) goes back to direct translation from Spanish. I didn't appreciate that till I started to learn Spanish myself. Of course, now even kids who don't speak Spanish as a first language pick up these habits from their parents.

When my niece came to live with us in foster care at age 13, she not only had all those quirks, but also a strong Brooklyn accent. I always restated what she said using standard English when she spoke to me. It probably drove her crazy, but she speaks very good standard English now. If you can do it in a way that doesn't sound condescending, you might try that with your friend. You can certainly do so with your students.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:08 AM
  #3

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Some of the other language quirks (like double negatives) goes back to direct translation from Spanish.
I've also noticed when my students are playing a game and are winning, they never say, "I am beating you" or "I beat you". It's always, "I won you". I always correct them by repeating it correctly. It's such an uphill battle. I don't think the corrections make much of a difference if the adults at home and some of the adults they come across at school continue to reinforce the incorrect way.
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Old 08-04-2020, 04:41 AM
  #4

I always said "I need to do something" but so many here say "I gots to to do something".
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:00 AM
  #5

This is linguistic imperialism - the sense that the way the dominant class speaks English is the correct way and the way cultural subgroups speak it is the wrong way.

Certainly, it's appropriate, and important, for students to learn standard English in written work and in formal speaking, but to cringe over the use of nonstandard English in informal speech betrays a type of prejudice. You won't get very far "correcting" their language. You might do better if you drop your superior attitude, appreciate the way they express themselves and, from there, have the discussion that there are times and places when it's helpful to be able to use standard English correctly.

When your teacher friends use this type of English, you can assume that it's not because they don't know any better. It's a matter of solidarity. I speak standard English most of the time, but I can switch effortlessly between sounding like I was trained in broadcasting and sounding like I was raised on the reservation, which I was, in part. Many Native professionals can do this and, I'm sure, so can many Hispanic professionals. I admit, though, that my rez accent can become quite thick when I encounter a linguistic bigot.


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Old 08-04-2020, 05:15 AM
  #6

I believe Jackie is posting anonymously to a board.stating that the words bother her. I understand your point Tori however the tone seems directed to anyone who might verbally correct someone in person. Code switching is acceptable to me however in a classroom I would feel obligated to model standard English. Do you think that makes one a bigot?
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:24 AM
  #7

Oh please...Sorry it bothers you so much but it does make me cringe when I hear the principal of the school use the word "mines" during announcements to the whole school or during a staff meeting. I also think correct English should be modeled in professional settings. If that bothers you...oh well.

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You might do better if you drop your superior attitude, appreciate the way they express themselves and, from there, have the discussion that there are times and places when it's helpful to be able to use standard English correctly.
You might do better if you drop your superior attitude and not assume that I don't appreciate my students for who they are. I cringe when ADULTS say it in professional settings. I model and teach correct grammar to my students.

Last edited by Jackie; 08-04-2020 at 05:45 AM..
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:27 AM
  #8

Thank you, Tori, for explaining linguistic bigotry. Even if usage is not what I’ve been taught, I try to see the necessity/meaning/beauty in alternative forms of expression. In reading Heavy by Kiese Laymon, I learned a lot about Black language (example: overpronouncing). I don’t always adapt easily to changes in language (in another thread cassyree called my thinking “change resistant and stubbornly pedantic”), but I try to be respectful of others.

Written variations tend to bother me more than spoken ones. I make mistakes all the time and I’m guessing we’ve all been taught different rules. For example, in lisa’s sentence, I would have used go not goes.
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Originally Posted by lisa
Some of the other language quirks (like double negatives) goes back to direct translation from Spanish.

Last edited by amiga13; 08-04-2020 at 05:55 AM.. Reason: A “whole ‘nother” language issue.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:29 AM
  #9

You are correct I think. ďSomeĒ is the plural subject. Oops!
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:30 AM
  #10

Agreed Jackie! Mines is popular in the area of NC I live.

Two others really get on my nerves when hearing professionals use them...

Aks instead of ask.

On tomorrow....making announcements to the school I often heard admin say...on tomorrow we will.....

I will add that I don't give a hoot how you speak when with friends, family, etc., but when you are in a professional setting, especially education you should be using correct grammar.



Last edited by teachnkids; 08-04-2020 at 05:58 AM..
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:38 AM
  #11

Quote:
Written variations tend to bother me more than spoken ones.
I don't understand being ok with one and not the other to be honest. They both show thinking or speaking incorrectly. I don't pretend to be the queen of grammar. I know I make mistakes too in writing and speaking at times. I do try my hardest to speak and write grammatically correct at work.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:44 AM
  #12

Quote:
amiga:Written variations tend to bother me more than spoken ones.
Jackie: I don't understand being ok with one and not the other to be honest.
I think Iím just more aware of print variations because Iím a slow reader who thinks about language as I read. Orally, Iím listening more for meaning so I donít attend to the variations as much. Just me. Does that make sense?
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:48 AM
  #13

Totally makes sense, Amiga.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:54 AM
  #14

Quote:
... I would feel obligated to model standard English. Do you think that makes one a bigot?
Of course not. I did say that I recognize the importance of being able to speak and write standard English well. Really, I would go so far as to say it's probably more important for people outside the dominant culture to be able to do this because it's an important protection against various kinds of bias, including job discrimination.

Nevertheless, I stand by my contention that judging the linguistic habits of people from other cultures as being wrong never helped a teacher persuade students that standard English is important. I stand by my contention that being annoyed by those dialects is a form of bigotry. And I stand by my contention that there's a difference between being a speaker of a nonstandard dialect and being ignorant of what's "correct."
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:32 AM
  #15

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I stand by my contention that being annoyed by those dialects is a form of bigotry
I respectfully disagree. If I've stood on front of a class and taught them the proper English version for days and they continue to use cultural linguistics it's going to annoy me. Knowing the right to use on a school environment and doing wrong is just wrong. I'm not a bigot if I expect students to use proper English grammar in class. Out on the playground, have at it! Use whatever you want. Just like if I teach 2+2=4 and a student continues to say 5, I'm going to correct the student.
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Never heard it used
Old 08-04-2020, 06:55 AM
  #16

I never heard that used, but it would drive me crazy!
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:22 AM
  #17

When I taught on the Navajo reservation, with Hopi nearby, "mines" was the norm. For many children English was their first language, but full of mistakes and code switching. They frequently added "s" to most collective nouns, furnitures, cattles, etc. Fridays always brought a chuckle with questions about spelling testes.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:53 AM
  #18

Quote:
I'm not a bigot if I expect students to use proper English grammar in class. Out on the playground, have at it!
Well, sure. If one of the stated expectations in your class is that students will use standard English, and you feel that students are deliberately not meeting that expectation, then it's not bigoted to remind them what your expectations are or to be annoyed if they make no effort to comply. This is part of understanding that there are situations in which standard English is called for. But you do need to understand that changing speech patterns isn't as easy as some people seem to feel that it is.

If it truly doesn't drive you up the wall to hear their cultural speech patterns on the playground; if you don't judge that it means their families are ignorant and inferior, then they are rather more likely to try to meet your expectations inside the classroom. But kids can smell judgment and if they know you believe that the way their grandpa talks is "wrong" and the way you talk is "right" good luck getting them to meet your expectations.
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:31 AM
  #19

As a first grade teacher, I encouraged students to speak appropriately in all areas. "Her gave it to me." " Try she gave it to me. " "I need a yewo crayon" "Oh, you need a yellow crayon." I didn't make a huge deal out of it. When reading the Junie B. Jones books I would point out words that were mispronounced or misused. I never made much progress on Valentimes Day. I felt it was my job to model and reinforce good grammar and wanted my own children's teachers to do the same for them.
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