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Teachers who correct your class!
Old 01-12-2020, 09:15 AM
 
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It is still happening to me but I'm learning to laugh and let go.
I'm walking the Kindergarteners back from lunch and forget to turn and look back as I approach the entrance to building. There are a few active little boys messing around at the end of the line - there's a teacher standing at the door and she starts to take over and discipline the line - "excuse me Ms. so and so's class, catch a bubble and walk in line properly, blah, blah, blah" I'm very easy going and say nothing or smile. I really want to say - "Excuse me first year ever young teacher, I'm 73 and have been teaching since I was younger than you are now - I'VE GOT THIS! - Please don't interfere with my job - I'm the sub and in charge of this class! "
Thanks for listening!


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Old 01-12-2020, 09:22 AM
 
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Yeah, I've learned to ignore the teachers. I'm not a huge "walk in a quiet, perfect line" person, though I know it's important for discipline and walking by other classrooms. It's not something I want to spend a lot of time perfecting.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:39 AM
 
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I seriously think they mean well...Just don't understand how it takes respect of you down a level.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:42 AM
 
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I hear ya! It's one of my pet peeves too...controlling teachers, aides, yard duty, etc., with no sense of boundaries. I'm strict about quiet lines, but I've even had teachers (or other staff) butt in when my class is being very well behaved!

I have a hard time biting my tongue though. I usually end up saying "I got this" and then i direct my students myself. These control freaks don't like my asserting myself, but it at least gets them to leave. (Of course there's always the risk that they will complain about me...sigh.)

I don't think it's about the kid's behavior in cases where you're doing your job properly. As I said, I'm strict about monitoring behavior in lines, yet I still may get interference from other staff. It's sometimes just a control tactic aimed at "putting subs in their place."

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 01-12-2020 at 10:14 AM..
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:42 AM
 
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I'm in high school, but the only people I've ever have had problems with are aides. Nowadays I'm using the killing them with kindness routine. I agree with everybody. I must say that I've only had problems with two aides, most I'm thankful for.


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Old 01-12-2020, 11:55 AM
 
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My standard reply for aids and teachers who feel they need to butt in, “we’re good thanks” I’ve used it on parents and a principal or 2 also.
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"We're good thanks." :)
Old 01-12-2020, 12:12 PM
 
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That's even better, Tapdancesub!

I recall an aide who complained to the principal because I told her "I got this" when she tried to butt in. She claimed I "wouldn't let her do anything. " Wow. Just wow.
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:35 PM
 
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Too many people are snowflakes, these days, and get their panties in a bunch too easily. People run to the principal over the stupidest things.

I bet 90% of the complaints that admin get should have been handled, themselves, or just dropped.

When I got grabbed by a student, I later found out that they were in special ed. I quit that district, and at a different district, I mistakenly told a teacher about it, and said that I thought subs should know who the special Ed students are. If I would have known the student was special Ed, and violent, I might have handled the situation differently.

The teacher told the principal that I "was not comfortable" with special Ed students, and I don't fit their "model.". Keep in mind that I have been in education most of my adult life, including over 10 years as a teacher.

I didn't even know that I had been fired, or anything about what the teacher did, for two weeks, and even then, only after I asked (I thought there might be a problem with my AESOP, a computer issue).

I wrote the superintendent about how crappy subs are treated. I said, "What if I were a single mother, with two kids? I could have applied at a different district, two weeks earlier.". I'm sure it landed on deaf ears.

The teachers that I had gotten along great with, until that point, had told me how they often have to cover other classes on their prep. I wonder why? I wasn't even allowed to defend or explain myself. In my letter, I said "I had heard how crappy subs were treated, but I didn't believe them."

This kind of treatment seems unbelievable to me. We really need to be included in the teachers' unions. We are just asking for basic respect, here.

At my new school I keep my mouth shut. Need to know basis, only. I don't trust anyone.

At my new school, there are marks by the names of some students. I wonder if that means they're in special ed. I don't even ask.

They always say that we FULLY take over for the teachers, that should include the knowledge of violent special Ed students. We almost can't win, sometimes.
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Old 01-12-2020, 03:22 PM
 
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Quote:
. People run to the principal over the stupidest things.

I bet 90% of the complaints that admin get should have been handled, themselves, or just dropped.
Definitely. Sometimes I think adults can be worse tattlers than kids! Grow up people!

i agree that substitute teachers should be allowed to join the teachers' union. It would put subs and ft teachers on the same team and provide the protections and support that subs badly need.

I believe too that it's best not to overshare at work. Anything we say may be held against us. People at work are coworkers or managers, not friends. And work places are gossip mills. (I've learned that the hard way myself. )

As for identifying spec Ed kids, many teachers I've subbed for will leave some kind of note in the lesson plans about any behavior issues. If not, I just assume there's probably at least one sped kid and just keep an eye out. The other kids will usually clue me in as well.

Although I only teach mainstream classes, I have been blindsided by violent behavior before, because no one warned me about a certain student. It can be really unnerving and scary. I feel for you.
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teacher correction
Old 01-12-2020, 07:25 PM
 
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I am a sub that works at one school so the entire staff and student body knows me. I have different strategies that I use with different grades and classes that really seem to work. Sometimes my line will be really quiet and a teacher's line is really noisy or crazy. I always want to say something but I don't. The school that I sub with has great teachers and they look out for subs and other teachers.


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MaineSub MaineSub is offline
 
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I do lines differently...
Old 01-13-2020, 03:51 AM
 
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Off topic? Maybe. I once wrote a piece called "Leading from the back of the line." So we're responsible for twenty or so five-year-olds trailing along behind us...while we're focused on where we're going and can't see them or what they're doing.

While I usually follow the regular teacher's practices and plans closely, I often change walking in the halls. I think it's logical but it's also a bit of self-preservation because subs are judged by how the class acts while traveling.

We have a little chat as a class first. I then instruct my (hopefully responsible!) line leader to walk to a certain point and stop (we make our journey in segments). I walk at the END (back) of the line where I can see everyone. When we reach the first stop, i quickly move up the line and give my line leader the next stop. Then I wait as the line passes and join at the end. (Usually, the worst offenders of line etiquette end up last in line, right!?) Depending on where we're going, 2-3 stops are the most required. As the day progresses, the number of required decreases because I'm at the back keeping everyone moving. Less time is spent waiting for stragglers to catch up.

It sounds time-consuming but it's actually quite the opposite. I no longer have to keep turning around (or walk backward), stopping while the line reforms, etc.

Try it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:46 AM
 
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I go over the rules of line etiquette at the beginning of the day and use team points and the school rewards bucks to encourage good line behavior. When they know I'm monitoring them and there are rewards (or penalties) involved, most kids behave pretty nicely in line. It just takes a little extra effort on the teacher's/sub's part.

All the same, there's still that random adult who may pretend to "correct" my already well behaved class. Go figure.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:06 PM
 
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I absolutely hate this and just smile and nod behind gritted teeth
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When it's line behavior...
Old 01-17-2020, 06:41 AM
 
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...I don't get too bent out of shape about it. I sometimes see regular teachers correct each other's classes, too. Often I think it's just a school-wide strategy: just because your teacher is distracted doesn't mean that some other teacher won't see you if you're misbehaving. I get your point, though. I've also had teachers interrupt what I was saying to mishaving students to yell at them themselves. I think they're trying to help but how do they not see that it's not helping when they undermine your authority in front of students?

What I really hate when I have to have SpEd aides or teachers in my room. Sometimes they're great but usually they're ignoring the student they're there to supervise and judging the sub instead. Yesterday I had a SpEd teacher in my first class because there were two especially troublesome students. It wasn't just because there was a sub - it was standard practice. But she basically just took over the class, and didn't do a particularly good job of it. Her classroom management consisted of "I shall now yell at the whole class for an hour about not being quiet." But, of course, most of the noise was coming from the two students she was there to supervise. And then, at the end of the class, they all got a lecture about how they had been disrespectful to their guest teacher - and named me. I was standing there thinking "Well, honey, it's not me they've been being disrespectful to."
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:52 PM
 
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You've hit on one of my pet peeves, some of the younger women in my generation who are prissy little know-it-alls who think they've got it all figured out. If you've ever seen "Election" and remembered the Tracey Flick character, that's the sort of person I'm talking about. Watch out for them. I have one at my current job and thank the Lord, Little Miss Perfect and her phony smile is going to find another job. Sadly, they're ready to replace me now at my current job with an actual teacher, which is a shame.

She was crazy. She stayed until nine pm at night working, she would be the principal's lackey, writing up documents for her without being asked, something that wasn't part of her official duties, going by the office to brown nose. Thankfully, I knew how to deal with her based on another annoying "Flick" at a job I had when I was younger.

A lot of this is really the fault of Boomers coddling their kids.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:34 AM
 
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I think positive reinforcement is the best approach. If a teacher does that, comment on someone doing what they're supposed to do - "Thank you, Johnny, for walking quietly in line. Awesome job, Sally!" That's more effective than reprimanding the whole back of the line anyway. Maybe the teacher will hear it and know you know what you're doing.

When I see lines that need work (and when they don't!), that's what I do. The rest of the line usually falls into place and the teacher and students appreciate that someone notices the ones doing the right thing.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:45 AM
 
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A lot of this is really the fault of Boomers coddling their kids.
You realize that the children of Boomers are now mostly in their 40's and 50's, right?
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QTIP-Quit taking it personally...
Old 01-18-2020, 09:16 AM
 
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I think most of the time, it is this:
Quote:
...I don't get too bent out of shape about it. I sometimes see regular teachers correct each other's classes, too. Often I think it's just a school-wide strategy: just because your teacher is distracted doesn't mean that some other teacher won't see you if you're misbehaving.
I have been a sub and a teacher in different states and at all grade levels (PreK to HS+.) Most schools have a policy of "Takes a village" where everyone helps everyone else. It is not because you are a sub! It is because you can't always have eyes enough to watch all of them all the time. The teachers there all know that. Maybe you aren't there enough to know it happens to all of us.

It is not about you or the job you are doing. You are doing your best and a few lollygaggers are acting like...well, kids. Having a good attitude will go a lot further in your favor than getting in a snit about it.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:23 PM
 
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Others have mentioned the "village" concept. It's a good policy. But I don't think that's the issue. It's not so much what or why, but how it's being done. I also don't think discussing a concern on this forum is being in a "snit." Why the put down?

In my own experience, various adults have intervened and yelled at my class when the kids were behaving well. I think in this case, the adult was just plain showdogging. That is childish in itself. I've even seen teachers yell at my class while disregarding their own misbehaving students. What's that about?

But in cases where there are a few rambunctious kids, a quiet proximity or "the eye" is enough. For another adult to step in and yell at the kids in front of their sub is overkill and undermines the sub's authority in the eyes of the class. The sub then has to go back to the classroom and deal with the aftermath of that. I find the class is more, not less unruly after that kind of encounter.

Teamwork is great in concept, but in reality most folks operate with their own agenda and don't especially take others' best interests into account.

Last edited by luv2teach2017; 01-18-2020 at 01:55 PM..
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luv2teach, I hate that for you in that case.
Old 01-18-2020, 02:57 PM
 
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Like I said, I've been in schools for over 20 years now in multiple states and all age levels and have had that (or assumed that) to be the case. I know now more than ever that I've been really lucky as a sub, para and now teacher.

I've loved my districts and most colleagues. I haven't always agreed with or gotten along with all of them all the time, but feel lucky I've never felt put down in this manner.

I am also sorry that the word "snit" upset you. I discuss all sorts of things on here and read even more. I appreciate all of it. I do think this forum is a great place to discuss concerns. I was using the "get in a snit" phrase to address those who lash out at those who try to help them... I stand by saying that lashing out, even under your breath, isn't professional either.

Quote:
In my own experience, various adults have intervened and yelled at my class when the kids were behaving well. I think in this case, the adult was just plain showdogging. That is childish in itself. I've even seen teachers yell at my class while disregarding their own misbehaving students. What's that about?
I cannot answer for others. Maybe I am too niave to see that others were putting me down. I hope not.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:39 PM
 
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I'm not lashing out at you. Just making a point in support of the original poster (and others who've experienced this problem). I believe we all should feel we can discuss valid issues without being unduly criticized.

Take into account also the imbalance of power between teachers and subs. As we often discussed here, subs have virtually no rights or protections and can be banned or fired over the slightest thing, even over false allegations or misperceptions. So when a teacher publicly yells at and chastizes a class in front of their sub, it immediately casts a bad light on the sub and makes the sub look incompetent.

Maybe you did not sub long enough to experience the damage this kind of thing can do. Now that you are a teacher, you are on the other side of the fence. You are no longer so vulnerable. I just hope you can empathize.

If the sub is doing an adequate job with the class, there's no need to intervene. If you do, please be mindful that the sub is still the "teacher of record" for the day and deserves to be respected as such. You can easily lend support without making a spectacle.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:14 PM
 
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Quote:
luv2teach2017's Message:

Others have mentioned the "village" concept. It's a good policy. But I don't think that's the issue. It's not so much what or why, but how it's being done. I also don't think discussing a concern on this forum is being in a "snit." Why the put down?

In my own experience, various adults have intervened and yelled at my class when the kids were behaving well. I think in this case, the adult was just plain showdogging. That is childish in itself. I've even seen teachers yell at my class while disregarding their own misbehaving students. What's that about?

But in cases where there are a few rambunctious kids, a quiet proximity or "the eye" is enough. For another adult to step in and yell at the kids in front of their sub is overkill and undermines the sub's authority in the eyes of the class. The sub then has to go back to the classroom and deal with the aftermath of that. I find the class is more, not less unruly after that kind of encounter.

Teamwork is great in concept, but in reality most folks operate with their own agenda and don't especially take others' best interests into account.
This is exactly my experience. I've seen it both with the teachers and paras.
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I concede.
Old 01-20-2020, 07:10 AM
 
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And again, I am sorry that happens to anyone. Disrespect is not professional in any job.

FWIW, I subbed for 6 years before teaching. I was a para for a year between years 7 and 8. I subbed again for 15 months between years 8 and 9. These years happened due to changing states/districts, etc.

Maybe I got lucky, maybe I was naive.

Being disrespected is not fair to anyone.
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