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Nowhere to put this
Old 09-13-2019, 03:54 PM
  #1

I went in to my aged Father's bank on the suggestion that we do a " pay on Death card" referred to as a POD.

The woman at the bank said she had not heard of such a thing.

Later the bank mailed a letter to my dad saying i had been in the bank asking questions and he might consider giving Power of Attorney to someone...

So i do more research and find out the POD is quite known. I call the bank to say i didnt appreciate them playing dumb.

Here is the kicker, the woman goes on to say SHE had told me about the POD and she insisted i speak to her manager. I said no. I told her she sucked. Then blocked the number.

She was just as creepy as the first time i met her. I hate the bank.

The bank wants to keep the account. We plan to move the $ asap on the basis of the uncool antics.

It seems there are people who just want to mess you up.

She acted friendly, like she cared about my Dad in that visit I made in person.

Is it just me or do you ever feel like some people are possessed by satan?


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This POD
Old 09-13-2019, 03:57 PM
  #2

Card would have been free.

We paid 50 for a notary and 250 for power of attorney documents

My Mother would be angry. She did her own legal documents. AND she despised wasting money.

I bet they write another smarmy letter to complain about my conduct.

Sometimes i wish i would relax more and do less overall
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:11 PM
  #3

well, that's just super-irritating!
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:48 PM
  #4

Since they sent your dad a letter, I assume your dad was not with you. If he had been with you there probably would have been no problem adding PoD to the account.

I realize that you were acting in your dad's best interest. The bank was also acting in his best interest. They notified him that someone, who was not listed on the account, had inquired about his account. Legally, without a power of attorney, or a court order, they cannot give out information if you are not listed on the account.

Take your dad in with you and there should be no problem adding a PoD. You might want to consider a financial power of attorney if he is going to need help paying bills. Or he could just do what my mom did and add you to the accounts.
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:12 PM
  #5

When I tried to get a pod my bank told me they donít use that form in California but instead have a designated beneficiary form that would give my dd access to my $$ in the event of my death


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Old 09-13-2019, 05:34 PM
  #6

The bank has a fiduciary responsibility to the account holder. I can't tell from what you wrote what exactly you were expecting to do that day at the bank. I'm assuming that you may have been wanting to pick up the required paperwork to make your father's accounts POD. That would make sense and I would have expected them either to give you the papers or to explain that the papers had to be signed at the bank and that you would need to bring your father in.

If you appeared to be trying to get the bank to make the account POD THEN AND THERE I can understand the push-back from the bank.

My mother recently died at 102 and I helped her with her banking. For a couple of transactions, she had to go to the bank personally, since I did not have power of attorney. For some financial business (bank or investment company) that were handled by phone, I would call and put her on the phone to authorize their talking with me (she had trouble hearing on the phone).

Now that Mom has died, I'm handling the estate and have changed the mailing address to my home. I had to get medallion guarantees (think notarized, but on steroids) to take over as trustee--and even then they sent letters to her previous address to notify her that the address on the account had been changed. They don't want to take any chances that someone is defrauding their client. I believe that's what your father's bank was trying to do.

Unfortunately, it sounds as if everyone involved was unprofessional in handling the situation.
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Old 09-13-2019, 06:23 PM
  #7

We have gone around and around with the bank. We've moved all but one account into a local bank that was easier to navigate. We left one account with Wells Fargo due to the fact that's the account where all their auto deposits and debits work through. Everything else is in the trust now. I am not POD on the account (but I am POA) so I try to keep that account under $10K because supposedly that will keep it from having to go through probate. (?? I'll believe it when I see it.) Hopefully we'll be able to add POD to that account if dad dies before mom.

Wells Fargo has been a nightmare. I have no complaint about the people, but their procedures make it impossible to navigate despite letters of incapacity, POA's etc. They kept wanting me to bring my dad (who is 15 years into Alzheimer's) in to sign things. I get that they are trying to protect dad, and that is a good thing, but it makes it really hard for caregivers to take care of business. The small independent local bank was much more user friendly. There were obviously still lots of steps to go through, but they were helpful with how to get through the process.

Even my parent's lawyer was a huge issue at first. He wouldn't respond to me because the last time he had seen my dad he acted pretty normal. I literally called him for several months trying to get in to see him to figure out next steps and he kept putting me off. He finally called and tried to talk to dad and THEN he understood the emergency. We had POAs in place but they weren't enacted. Once I was able to get mom in there to talk to him by herself and she could be honest about what was going on, as his POA she could start to make some changes.

It didn't help when dad started telling everyone who would listen that I was trying to steal his money! Dementia can be hidden from people at first, especially since dad had mom covering for him. When he was there, Mom would simply agree with anything he said out of self preservation. The poor bank workers, etc. look at me like "what the heck?" because they can tell he's pretty far gone. His name was on EVERYTHING as main owner, so once mom was able to get that redone she and I were able to start to navigate the rest with me acting now as her POA. Thankfully her dementia diagnosis didn't come until we were mostly set.

It is so weird doing your parents finances because everyone has to do their due diligence on you to make sure you are acting in their best interests, but it's a creepy feeling being suspected of stealing their assets. I triple document everything (Keep all statements/bills/receipts, keep a list, send the list to all my siblings each month.)

I have spent more time angry about the impossibility of some of these tasks than over anything else in my entire lifetime. Sorry I wrote a novel, but I FEEL YOUR PAIN!
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POA Warning/Advice
Old 09-13-2019, 06:32 PM
  #8

When my dad was nearing the end, he and I went to the bank where most of his money was. I was Power of Attorney and we met with someone to tie the POA to his account. We both thought I would continue to have access to those funds at the point when he died. I did not realize that, at the point of death, POA is over.

We went to another bank, closer to his home, where he had a smaller amount of money. We tried to do the same thing with the POA and the lady who worked with us suggested to not tie the POA to his account, but instead, put me on the account as a co-owner.

Checking account was at bank #1. I wrote 2 checks from that account after his death (one to the funeral home) before I realized that his accounts were frozen and we would have no access to those funds until we had a death certificate. Both checks bounced and I ended up putting those amounts on my personal credit card.

Savings at bank #2 that had no connection with a POA: the same lady recognized me and said since I was co-owner, I could withdraw it all without having a death certificate. My sister and I ended up creating a new shared account there that we could pay expenses and make deposits.

Just want to give you a heads' up.
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Old 09-13-2019, 06:58 PM
  #9

I’m confused. Do you have POA? If you don’t then the bank shouldn’t discuss his account. If you do then they should be able to work with you.

Be careful with having a name added as a co-owner. Yes, you can take all of the money and move it but closing the account is more difficult. You do need a death certificate to close the account and tax will have to be paid on 50% of the account at the time of the person’s death. If you predecease the original co-owner then inheritance tax will have to be paid on 50% of their own money. My bank advised me not to be a co-owner.

It is true that POA ends at the time of death. The account becomes an estate account and the executor of the will has access to it to pay for funeral expenses and so on after the will goes through probate.

Some banks will set up a funeral account to pay for expenses of a funeral. Those funds won’t be included in the amount that inheritance/estate tax is paid on. This kind of account is tricky because the funds are only for funeral expenses.

If your parent has a safety deposit box at the time of death the bank makes an accounting of what is inside and that becomes a part of the taxable estate.

Elder law is very complicated. Estate and inheritance tax laws vary by state. Research the laws in your individual state. There are serious implications for mishandling and mismanaging parents’ money.

Please be careful. If you aren’t POA or a co-owner of the account don’t try to do anything.

If you do have POA you have to register at the bank before you can do any transactions. They will make copy of the documents along with a copy of your license. Then that information will be added to the account and a teller will see it on the computer. Each person with POA has to register with the bank.

Last edited by wildflowerz; 09-13-2019 at 07:16 PM..
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Thank you
Old 09-13-2019, 07:46 PM
  #10

Everyone for your replies.

I was asking for the Pay on Death paperwork and they played dumb.

I later called to tell them i didnt appreciate them playing dumb and she lied and said, "i told you about Pay on Death."

She may have been confused and mixed up her terms. Power of Attorney POA. Pay on Death POD.

My parents wrote a solid trust. They deeded their estate to the trust.

We did get Power of Attorney today. Now my sister can pay me back for lots of things i have paid for. My dad has plenty of funds.

I do understand that POA ends at death. The trustor of the estate will then manage the estate. A different sister

My Dad is 98. He does not go to town anymore.

His bank sucks. We all dislike the way they act. I have 6 siblings.

Anyway, i was venting before. Glad to know i am not alone. Yes i could have handled myself more professionally but they really do suck.


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When my aunt was getting scammed
Old 09-14-2019, 03:24 AM
  #11

by some people in Jamaica, the bank said the only way they could call me if she took out large sums of cash (which she was doing, then purchasing money orders to send these thieves) was if my name was on the account.

Even though they had known her for 30-some years and she was literally sitting in the bank with them (I was on the phone), they refused to put my name on the account unless I FLEW TO NY from California and signed the card in front of them. They were not interested in FAXes, DocuSign, a notarized document from me, etc. I had to be IN THE ROOM. So I flew to NY simply to sign a little card so the bank could call me before allowing her to give ALL of her $$ to the evil freaks in Jamaica. They got at least $20K from her and it would have been worse had I not done that.

I have found that NY banks still function in the 1980s.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:37 AM
  #12

Yikes! Sounds like this bank has given you other trouble before this, and even if their policies were technically correct, it doesn't sound like they carried them out well/professionally. I'm glad you're looking at changing banks.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:51 AM
  #13

Quote:
If you predecease the original co-owner then inheritance tax will have to be paid on 50% of their own money.
My mom was the queen of small accounts. I was so owner on one. My brother on another. And on a third, both of us were named co-owners. When she died we took the death certificate to the banks and closed the accounts. No tax since the total amount of her estate was below the threshold for the federal and state estate tax to kick in. Even if I or my brother had died first the would have been no estate tax as brother of us would have left estates large enough to be taxed.

Predecessing is only a concern if your estate will exceed the federal exemption (11 million in 2019 and 5 million in future if it reverts) or your state exemption.
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:59 AM
  #14

I just went and looked up state exemptions and was surprised to find only 12 states have them. My parent's state, Oregon, is the second lowest - taxing more on estates than all but Rhode Island. ERG. Taxes will be another huge complication to figure out. This whole thing is very complicated. I know it's a blessing my parents have enough means for this to be an issue, but who knew the financial portion of this was going to be so hard?

Although I already knew about the taxes and have been working with her on gifting etc. while she is still living, I didn't realize her state was one of just few and notoriously high. Mine has state estate taxes too, but they have a higher exemption.

Last edited by MKat; 09-14-2019 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:16 AM
  #15

Happygal- I'm one of 6 as well. It isn't easy when there are so many people involved. We can no longer sit down together and discuss things. I've given up trying.

Marguerite- My state has a 4.5% estate/inheritance tax. It irks me to have to pay tax on money that has already been taxed.

MKat- You're right, it is SO complicated!
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:19 AM
  #16

wildflower, I learned something new today. I didn't realize that there is a difference between an estate tax and an inheritance tax. I'd be irked with an inheritance tax too. We would not have let my mom add our names if we were in an inheritance tax state.

I am in an estate tax state and estates under 1.5 million are untaxed.

Last edited by marguerite2; 09-14-2019 at 05:25 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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