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Haley23 Haley23 is offline
 
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Tier 2/Tier 3 interventions comparison
Old 08-23-2018, 05:54 PM
 
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When a child at your school is getting tier 2 interventions and you move to tier 3 and/or refer for sped (I know some places do "tier 3" before sped and some places consider sped to be the third tier), does the student get the tier 2 interventions AND the tier 3 interventions? Are there major changes to the intensity of interventions the child receives once they actually start on an IEP?

I had a long explanation typed out, but it was getting to be a novel. Due to a series of events, my sped director has finally taken an interest in "problem solving" the fact that kids with IEPs in my building don't really get any more services/"specialized instruction" than gen ed students, since we do everything through "intervention blocks."

Basically I am interested in how often it actually happens that the tiers build on each other and the child truly gets more intervention once receiving an IEP. If your school does this, what specifically does it look like? I'd love to be able to come in with some specific ideas.


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Old 08-23-2018, 07:38 PM
 
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Short answer in my building is basically no.

We do 30 minutes leveled reading groups, which we consider "tier 1" because that is standard practice in our entire district. Our SPED teachers works with the very lowest readers who aren't in our monolingual ESL program. Generally those kids are on IEPs, but occasionally we will get a new student who places into that group and isn't yet on an IEP and we refer those kids as soon as we have enough data to support it. And sometimes we have students who are on IEPs but because of the nature of the disability or the IEP, they aren't actually in the lowest group (for example, sometimes we have students on IEPs in grades 3-5 who have moved beyond their peers on IEPs in terms of decoding so they might work with a reading specialist group instead).

Additionally, because of our student population we have a building wide Tier 2 time (staggered by grade, but all students).Some teachers lead enrichment/extension groups during that time but all of the kids participate in that. - in a group focusing on their targeted need. Our students who are in SPED see our SPED teacher for both of those 2 times, and then participate in whole group, gen ed core curriculum for the rest of reading.

Students are referred to me for 1:1 intervention by teachers. That is what we consider "tier 3" in my building, and it is additional on top of those other 2 settings and is outside of the "literacy block" time. That happens more often when kids are not on IEPs during our process leading up to that referral. Occasionally when our SPED teacher has an outlier in her group, or in the case of students who place out of her group, she will refer students on IEPs to work with me as well and she and I will determine the goals for that time. Sometimes teachers don't refer a student to me, but since I coordinate our building literacy data I flag the student myself and do more exploring about the need for additional time.

The other benefit or extra support a student might receive after they qualify (outside of classroom accommodations, etc.) is access to a para during gen ed when we can do that. I assign my paraeducators to their reading groups and grade levels. Every year I have paras who have random periods of time where it would not make sense for them to have a group because of our building schedule. When that happens, I look at which classes have reading at that time and where the greatest need for support is. So for example, last year even though the classes are supposed to be "balanced" but because of newly enrolled students, we had one class in a grade level of 4 classrooms where 4 of the 5 students working the resource group ended up together. I was able to get that teacher some additional para support in that classroom so those students would have extra support available to them. This is really the only extra benefit our IEP students get, and it isn't even all of them unfortunately.
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:39 PM
 
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The great thing about the intervention block system is that my kids are getting actual "specialized instruction" (vs. just pushing in or something) while not missing anything in gen ed and avoiding the supposed "stigma" of being pulled out at a separate time, which is very important to our district bigwigs.

The issue I have with it is they're referred in the first place, they've already been getting that intervention block and we've all decided it doesn't work through numerous collaborative (MTSS) meetings. If it worked, they wouldn't qualify. Lack of progress with interventions is required to be identified SLD in my state.

So our solution to that is to put them on an IEP and give them sped minutes in the same exact intervention block, with the same sized group, for the same amount of time, using the same resources as before. Yet they are now suddenly supposed to make magical growth because they have paperwork attached to their name. In fact, they're supposed to make more growth than kids without disabilities so they can "close the gap." That makes absolutely no sense.

My director and P love to say, "Well let's offer push in and pull out!" For one, I think push in is totally ineffective. Two, the intervention blocks take up most of my day. I have one hour that I can use to schedule other things for, and kids in 11 different classrooms.

Some of my teammates and I have talked about the possibility of me not being involved with that intervention block, and seeing my kids at a totally separate time instead. Due to a mid-year scheduling change that my P made to the blocks last year, I had to do this with one grade level and it was nice that my kids actually got something "special" out of their IEP in that grade level. However, if I do things this way it gets rid of the things that sound really nice to other adults- the whole idea that the kids are getting services but not being "stigmatized" or missing any gen ed instruction. My district is really anti pull out, which is really annoying.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:34 AM
 
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I've seen your posts before about this and totally agree with you. I am on our student referral team and often in those meetings if we go in and the teacher basically says "This student needs to be in resource" someone (me, our SPED teacher, sometimes our P) will say to the teacher, "how will that be any different for X?"
Like you said.

My first year as the reading specialist for our building, we pulled Tier 2 students (not doing building wide then) during additional time. They usually ended up missing science, which was basically the only time in the day that they were actively participating in their class and enjoying learning (which is a separate issue!!). That is why we switched to building wide Tier 2 - so that teachers block out the 30 minute time and kids aren't missing other content.

It's an interesting discussion. Right now it looks like our SPED teacher and I are going to start being sent to more specialized reading trainings that will provide more/different for those students (Orton-Gillingham training). We will be the only 2 in the building trained to provide that instruction.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
"This student needs to be in resource" someone (me, our SPED teacher, sometimes our P) will say to the teacher, "how will that be any different for X?"
I wish someone else understood this at my school. Even our P constantly says things like, "This student needs more," (in reference to an IEP) in MTSS meetings or tells teachers in PD that they have to do the intervention curriculum with fidelity during intervention blocks so that we can truly weed out kids who need something "very individualized." Except she knows full well no one is getting anything "very individualized." Our interventionists are the same way. They are constantly trying to fight to prove so and so needs an IEP even though we've had what feels like 1,000 discussions about how paperwork doesn't solve anyone's problem.

I went to some OG training in my first district. What I learned was good and I wish I could go to the full thing. I've tried to use the stuff I do know in intervention blocks and P won't let me- she wants me to use the intervention programs we have. She always says, "These are OG based."


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