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SoDone SoDone is offline
 
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Old 03-03-2020, 07:29 PM
 
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I'm probably going to get flamed for this but at this point I just don't care. Many many famous people survived awful things in their pasts without being total jerks to teachers or any other adult. I get ACES and all that bs but come on. I had some stuff happen to me that was traumatic - I'm not an a-hole as a result even though I didn't get therapy or meds. I'm a mom so I'm a natural nurturer but the kids I see are verbally abusive every day and we are supposed to take it. I'm sorry but I'm a human. I can only take so many insults. I'm getting really tired of giving everyone a free pass to be cruel just because they went through something. Woman or man the heck up.


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No flames from me
Old 03-03-2020, 08:32 PM
 
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I agree with you! I grew up poor and without a father. By the time I was twenty I could remember living in more than twenty different places since my family moved a lot, always looking for cheaper rent. My brother and I were never problems in school, nor did we blame others for our difficult circumstances. Amazingly, we've both had quite successful lives.

Too many kids today are allowed to use a rough childhood as an excuse for their bad behavior. It's ridiculous!
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Old 03-03-2020, 08:54 PM
 
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There's a difference between kids acting out because of horrible circumstances, and kids acting out and getting away with it (like what you described) because they have an excuse.


I'm also tired of that begin used as an excuse because many times there is nothing wrong with the child's background. Just like with grownups, sometimes kids can act like jerks too. Yes, of course it's part of our jobs to help teach them that's not appropriate, but I agree that we shouldn't be expected to just take it day in and day out.

Then, for the kids who it really is because of their rough background, my heart breaks for them. We need more resources to help them, and that burden should not fall onto teachers who are not adequately trained, nor given adequate time, to truly help those kids.
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Old 03-03-2020, 09:23 PM
 
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Not unpopular with me.

And more than that, I often think about my students when they whine or tattle about something, "I had as close to an ideal childhood as one gets, and you couldn't even handle half of the 'challenges' I faced, let alone actual trauma like you're making this out to be."
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I agree
Old 03-04-2020, 01:30 AM
 
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with you.

My siblings and I had an extremely challenging childhood. We never caused any trouble at school. Just because a student is going through rough times should not give them a free pass to be cruel to others. I have always thought this.

What would happen if I, as a teacher, decided to take out my stress and frustration on my admin and students by being hostile and rude to them?? We all know the answer. Iíd be out of a job, as I should be. This would happen in any job. Itís wrong to treat others badly just because you are having a hard time. Our young people should be learning this valuable lesson.


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Old 03-04-2020, 03:24 AM
 
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I also agree with you. I have been doing this for 34 years in elementary school. Trauma and difficult home lives existed 20 or 30 years ago ( or 100 years ago) and most kids did not act like this!

I feel like back at the start of my career you might have had one kid in the school who had meltdowns. Then it started to creep up to be one per grade, then one per class, then several per class in some cases.

It is absolutely burning out teachers and unfair to the kids who are trying to work and learn. I feel the classes are coming to us lower and lower and I feel part of it is the lost instruction time due to the misbehaviors.

Last edited by twinmom95; 03-04-2020 at 06:01 PM..
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:59 AM
 
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I also think that rather than "trauma informed" it's becoming "trauma excused" and students are getting away with acting like jerks because of their rough backgrounds. I don't think we're doing them any favors. Society, as a whole, isn't going to say, "Oh, you had a rough childhood? You poor thing. You can act like a jerk, not get your work done, etc". No, they're going to get fired, arrested, etc.

Districts SAY they want to prepare students for life, and to be 21st Century Learners, but are we really? I would argue we aren't.

And the lost instruction time...don't even get me started. I moved to SpEd and I can't tell you how many groups I have to send back early or skip altogether because of issues somewhere in the building that I need to deal with. And my SpEd/social work colleagues have it even worse.
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ready for 21st century
Old 03-04-2020, 08:14 AM
 
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Districts SAY they want to prepare students for life, and to be 21st Century Learners, but are we really? I would argue we aren't.
I agree!........
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Agree
Old 03-04-2020, 09:54 AM
 
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Some teachers are drinking the Kool aid and it's frustrating me. I read Facebook statuses about "a kid was throwing tantrums so I gave him puppets and everything was wonderful...stop telling them to follow the rules"

I try to run a tight ship but tell them it's because I care. Works a lot of the time but then other professionals tell them they should never be embarrassed, disappointed, feel failure..sigh.
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I love, love, love this post!
Old 03-04-2020, 10:09 AM
 
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And the responses!



Just had to sit through that training yesterday. I took and passed the test before we ever saw the learning modules!


Agree with everything said above!!!! Yes, I'm using multiple exclamation points.


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Old 03-04-2020, 05:32 PM
 
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Yes!!!!! Iím so glad other people think this way!!!!!
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:10 PM
 
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OP, agree with what you've stated.
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:21 PM
 
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These kids are in for a rude awakening when they have to function in the world, away from school.

I just look as some of the things our students do and fear what will happen to them as adults. They may be tough now, but out in the rest of the world they will eventually come up against someone bigger and meaner and will be in a world of hurt. That, or the police will be called and and they will be tasered, arrested, or worse, because the police are not going to take the time to try to diffuse a dangerous situation by offering hugs and treats when they perceive that someone is in danger.

Quote:
other professionals tell them they should never be embarrassed, disappointed, feel failure..sigh.
Sometime I wonder how much this has led to so much of the lack of motivation and resilience of too may of our students. Part of being resilient is failing, but still getting back up and learning that you can make it through, even if the result is different than what you first expected.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:50 AM
 
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I just saw in the news that a worker at a drive through restaurant got into a dispute with a couple of his customers. Apparently their order was wrong and the customers were complaining. So, the drive through worker pulled out a gun and shot both of them. Oneís arm was grazed. The other was shot in the throat and is in serious condition at the moment. My immediate thought was, I bet that restaurant worker was always allowed to act out in school and never learned how to handle his emotions. I am pretty sure that this is partly the result of not being held to any consequences all throughout his life. I hope his former enabling teachers are happy with what they have helped to produce.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:32 AM
 
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Quote:
I'm probably going to get flamed for this but at this point I just don't care. Many many famous people survived awful things in their pasts without being total jerks to teachers or any other adult.
I get it. I had a very traumatic past which included being adopted at age 7, before that I went through a lot of abuse and severe neglect. It's affected me a lot as an adult - incuding severe ADHD (I probably would have had it either way but the trauma strongly affects my ability to cope with it), severe anxiety and depression.

However, I recognize that my life is my responsibility. How I react and behave is my choice. How I treat others is a reflection of the choices I make, not a reflection of my past. Yes, I have struggles that I have a hard time overcoming (like organization, time management, interrupting - that's a huge one that I struggle with due to ADHD) but how I treat others is my choice.

Kids can make the choice to be kind too.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:48 PM
 
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I agree with you. I had a sad childhood but I always (somehow) remained a well behaved and good kid as well as student.

The students todays become our leaders of tomorrow. It will be scarey!
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
I also think that rather than "trauma informed" it's becoming "trauma excused" and students are getting away with acting like jerks because of their rough backgrounds.
This. "Trauma informed" is important and necessary but "trauma excused" totally ignores what we already know about making children feel safe and secure. Kids need clear boundaries and limits and predictable routines in order to feel safe. When all those things go out the window, it just makes a bad situation worse.
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Maybe the Administration have ACES
Old 03-07-2020, 09:05 AM
 
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One of my administrators had some serious issues, and I am convinced she had multiple ACES, and treated individuals very poorly! And, she created quite the toxic environment. Seventy-five percent of the staff leave every 2 years.

What is happening in American schools is students are money makers - nothing more than let's make money off them! If they are poorly educated, it's good for billionaires. The billionaire will run the company, where the poor kids work. If they can't work, he will own the jail.
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Agree
Old 03-07-2020, 10:23 AM
 
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I agree with everything you said.

Since I retired, I help with Celebrate Recovery at the church I attend on Tuesday nights. Many of the people that attend want to blame everyone but themselves for the way their lives have turned out.

At some point, we have to take responsibility for our choices and actions.
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Putting more on the shoulders of teachers...
Old 03-07-2020, 08:42 PM
 
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Because if the kids are traumatized, you can't punish them, so teachers, stop referring kids to the office and expecting admin support with difficult students. And then admin can brag about their low referral, ISS, OSS, and expulsion numbers.

It's just another way to shift blame and refuse to support teachers.

I ABSOLUTELY believe that our job is to help and support children, even if they are behaviorally disturbed. We can teach them (95% of them, anyway) a better way through tight routines and procedures, logical and fair consequences, consistency, and modeling proper behavior. But we do them no favors by coddling them. The police who arrest them at the scene of the armed robbery aren't going to give two farts that they have a high ACES score, you know?
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Great response...
Old 03-10-2020, 04:08 PM
 
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This is exactly how I feel. Well said!
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