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Violet123 Violet123 is offline
 
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Hybrid? Are you kidding?
Old 06-05-2020, 06:19 PM
 
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So...it seems my state will most likely implement a hybrid model in the fall. I understand the challenge we face, but the thought of a hybrid model makes me ill.
Iím a middle school sped teacher and support kids in grades 6-8. I teach small group classes and support them in the general classroom. How in the world will I be able to do both and the remote teaching on top of my liaison responsibilities?
I still have 2 more weeks of school- 2 weeks off then remote summer sessions. Iím so done!
Thanks for listening PT friends.


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Old 06-05-2020, 08:33 PM
 
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I'm curious what the hybrid model looks like. I've heard very different ideas about what that means in different places. I hope this next year is not as challenging for the previous spring has been for so many teachers

Hybrid is great in theory, but the practicality of it? Harder to imagine.
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:44 PM
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:39 PM
 
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Our hybrid model is half time in school and half at home. When they are home they are doing independent learning, not involved in any live lessons. We would have four days of students in school (one group M/W and one T/Th) and one full day of prep. We would not be live streaming anything. I desperately hope we do this and not have to do full distance learning.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:27 PM
 
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I think the hybrid models being proposed are ridiculous and will never work. I think we will be back full time because childcare is needed, and then districts will offer an online only option for families who aren't comfortable sending their kids/have the option to stay home with their kids. I think we'll also have shorter periods (up to 2 weeks at most) where schools temporarily go online due to outbreaks within the school.

Many districts around here are coming up with hybrid proposals because the current restrictions are no gatherings for more than 10 people, so they're trying to work something out where there would only be 9 kids (plus 1 teacher) in each class at a time. The governor just came out the other day and said he expects schools to be able to have up to 20-25 kids in a class by fall.

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I'm curious what the hybrid model looks like.
Here, there are several options being floated in other districts:

1) Students are placed in "A" and "B" groups. Group A attends Monday/Wednesday, Group B attends Tuesday/Thursday, and Friday is a teacher plan day. When students aren't at school, they'll be doing remote learning (hence why the teacher is given an entire day per week to plan).

2) Similar to above, but rotating weeks. Group A goes week 1 Monday-Thursday, and then Group B goes the next week Monday-Thursday, and they trade off.

3) If even smaller groups are required or there aren't enough teachers, split students into A, B, C, and D groups. Students attend school one day per week and have remote learning the rest of the time.

The glaring problem is that this doesn't work for childcare. Yes, school is not daycare, but the reality of our society is that parents rely on school for childcare during the day. Especially with economic issues, people can't afford to do something like this. Teachers themselves won't be able to do this if they're also parents because there is no childcare for their own children.

Even if you're talking a super wealthy community where everyone has a stay at home mom or can afford tons of extra daycare and this is logistically feasible, it doesn't make that much sense health wise either. In every scenario, the teacher is exposed to every student. Having less students there at a time makes no difference at all. And if the kids are just going to daycare on their off days, they'll all be there together anyway- and likely mixed with children from various schools, so even more exposure.

Some of the restrictions being proposed for even full time in person learning make no sense either, such as having students stay in the same cohort all day long, eat in the classroom, etc. Some have suggested specials teachers take regular classes to make class sizes smaller. I hope unions do not accept teachers losing plan/lunch time in this scenario. Many specials teachers also don't have the proper certification to classroom teach, and how do you decide who gets the actual 2nd grade teacher and who gets the PE teacher?

What about required services, such as all of our sped services, EL, title 1, etc.? Sped students falling behind is brought up over and over again in press conferences so I don't see any scenario where we don't provide IEP minutes or special services are only provided via zoom or something. Any way you work it (switching to push in, only pulling from one classroom at a time), we'll be exposed to kids from multiple classes, meaning by association they're all exposed to each other and then they in turn expose everyone in their gen ed class.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:59 PM
 
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One of my districts has discussed having two groups of students; the A group would go MWF-TTh while the B group goes TTh-MWF. Students would take home independent work on the days when they are not in school.

No one has communicated with the subs anything, Iím getting my info from district web sites and Facebook groups. Iím emailing back reasonable assurance letters and asking what subbing is going to look like in the fall, so far no answers.


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We have 30+ in a class
Old 06-06-2020, 01:56 AM
 
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In person isn't going to work no matter how you do it.
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Itís just not going to work.
Old 06-06-2020, 03:33 AM
 
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I totally agree we need to get students back in school...I want to get back in school. But the hybrid model at a middle school with special education will just not work. Not sure at any level..maybe high school.

The only concept that is appealing is that there would be a small number of students in a class, but I will need maintain 6feet from my students! I might as well not be there at all. Itís not realistic at all. Besides..we will be spending more time enforcing and monitoring the social distancing rules than teaching. I love middle school-but many middle schoolers will use this situation to derail teaching, bully students, and make it harder. Not to mention emotional vulnerable students, some students will be so scared.

How will working parents manage transportation and childcare for ďoff days?Ē

I think either we go all in with a different level of precautions or stay remote and focus on emergency childcare services. I donít know. Itís just so stressful.
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A lot of influential financiers
Old 06-06-2020, 03:35 AM
 
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Have been pushing for online k-12 education for a long time. Itís going to happen, in at least a hybrid form, now in many parts of the country, regardless of what happens with quantitative data surrounding the virus. The pandemic was the perfect thing to exploit to make this happen.

Itís similar to the way a lot of administrators are indoctrinated by a very primitive and reactionary ďmore tech automatically equals goodĒ mentality in graduate school.
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Old 06-06-2020, 04:11 AM
 
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I think my district will go back normally, with small restrictions.

Our hybrid model being discussed would be one group of kids M/T and the other group Th/F. Schools would be empty on Wednesdays for cleaning between groups, teachers would work from home. Wednesday makes the most sense for cleaning reasons but in my district we also dismiss an hour early every Wednesday so it makes sense in that regard as well.
I don’t see it happening but that’s what has been discussed

My district already has a fulltime online option as does my state for K-12 so that’s already an option for all students if parents can go that route.
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Hybrid
Old 06-06-2020, 05:05 AM
 
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My state will have a decision about school by the end of the month.

My (not small) district is just now putting together what we will do for possible scenarios.

It has not been made public or been revealed to the staff what those scenarios will be.
Our union is all over this and so far have been sticking up for us about hours and tech use during remote learning.

This article sums up my feelings about possibly going back with restrictions. It will not work at all and teachers and staff are going to be put at risk.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...35f_story.html


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Old 06-06-2020, 06:02 AM
 
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Readandweep,

I see you are also in Illinois. I didnít know the state was going to make a decision that soon. My district said they are not deciding what to do until mid to late July at the earliest.
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Childcare
Old 06-06-2020, 07:21 AM
 
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“The glaring problem is that this doesn't work for childcare. Yes, school is not daycare, but the reality of our society is that parents rely on school for childcare during the day.”

Exactly. I laugh to myself when I hear politicians talking about opening the economy and opening schools as if they are two separate things. Once the school year starts, they’re inextricably linked in practice.
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Old 06-06-2020, 07:42 AM
 
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I sent you a message.
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Well.....
Old 06-06-2020, 09:39 AM
 
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This is all very difficult and a logistical nightmare.

However, for those suggesting that the exposure is the same under this model, consider that it is STILL less exposure than the traditional model. Under the traditional model, essentially every kid is exposed to every other kid via lunch, recess, passing in the hallway, and most importantly in changing classes (I know this is largely secondary). Further, the crowded classrooms all but guarantee disease transmission when there is an infection. We MUST get the class sizes down.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:20 AM
 
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Yes but "less exposure" doesn't mean it's safe for teachers, staff, or kids to go back. I'm so tired of news articles focusing on how it's safe because kids are less at risk but what about US? OUR safety? That part is NEVER mentioned. I will full on wear a face shield and mask. If teachers don't feel safe in the work environment, even if there's less kids - what's the point? Continue full distance learning. We know when the outbreak hits in the cold season, we're going to shut down again anyway. Socialization - forget it. That's not going to happen when kids have to stay 6 feet away anyway.



Our district is in talks to live stream lessons for those kids who stay home 100%. I mean.. the list is on and on. But frankly, safety first and then I would have zero problem returning to school.
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Old 06-06-2020, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Here, there are several options being floated in other districts:
Thanks, Haley. I have seen the first two versions you posted being bandied about, but not the third. I asked because I was curious what model Violet's school would be following.

I completely agree with you that childcare becomes an issue. Although I think many people will continue to work from home, many more will likely not. And even if you do continue to work from home, it's really hard to do when you have to monitor your kids at the same time. It also seems like a lot more work for teachers, and a whole lot of organization.

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However, for those suggesting that the exposure is the same under this model, consider that it is STILL less exposure than the traditional model. Under the traditional model, essentially every kid is exposed to every other kid via lunch, recess, passing in the hallway, and most importantly in changing classes (I know this is largely secondary). Further, the crowded classrooms all but guarantee disease transmission when there is an infection. We MUST get the class sizes down.
Completely agree with this! Having fewer people in the classroom at once does limit exposure. That's why the phases of interaction include having more distance between people, more space between people who are physically present, etc. That is how you limit the spread of the virus.

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In person isn't going to work no matter how you do it.
Not sure why your class size impacts this- if you look at the models Haley described, none of them have all kids in the class at the same time (which is the point). Larger classes I'm assuming would have to have fewer in-person days to limit the number of people in the room at once. Unless I'm not understanding your point?
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Old 06-06-2020, 02:56 PM
 
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I don't think the smaller class sizes make much difference unless you're talking about a small class with their own teacher. We all know that will never happen with budget cuts. In the A/B or even A/B/C/D group models proposed, the teacher is still exposed to every student. The fact that the same students aren't there every day makes no difference, especially since the teacher is the one that's really at risk.

If someone in group A has it and exposes the teacher, the teacher then exposes group B. If I as the sped teacher work with students from 12 different classrooms as I normally do, those students are all exposed to each other through me and in turn expose their classmates. And I'm not the only one working with various groups of kids- we have the SLP, OT, EL teachers, and interventionists as well. The only service I could see possibly getting away with not providing due to safety concerns is intervention. The others are legally mandated.

Most kids won't socially distance. Even older kids/teens who could understand and monitor their own bodies better just won't want to do it and won't think it's a big deal as they're not likely to be impacted themselves. Even if they do, the latest information coming out seems to be that the whole 6 foot apart thing doesn't help that much in enclosed spaces for prolonged periods of time where everyone is breathing the same air for hours. It only makes a difference in briefly passing someone, such as in a grocery store.

The only thing I see making a big difference is if they can somehow figure out more information about if kids really spread the virus. Lately the assumption that they're getting it, but are asymptomatic and still spreading it around has started to be challenged. If they could somehow figure out that kids in fact aren't carriers, that would be huge. I was reading an article last week that said in countries that are really doing a lot of contract tracing, there aren't cases where people are getting it from kids. In that case, you'd just have to socially distance adults from each other, which would be completely feasible.
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Old 06-06-2020, 03:10 PM
 
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That's the assumption in Australia. Our schools are fully open, with full classrooms. We are making no attempt to socially distance the children, washing and sanitising a lot and hoping the government has this right (with little real faith in them). However, we are socially distancing the adults. We are not to use the staffroom except for a quick in and out to make coffee or heat up lunch. We are to eat our lunch and spend our breaks in our classroom alone, unless we are on duty. We are socially isolated from our peers, and that is causing problems, too.
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Old 06-06-2020, 03:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Lately the assumption that they're getting it, but are asymptomatic and still spreading it around has started to be challenged. If they could somehow figure out that kids in fact aren't carriers, that would be huge.
I've read a few articles about this lately, and how some countries who have opened schools are not seeing a spike in cases. Let's hope that's the case!
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As another poster suggested
Old 06-06-2020, 03:47 PM
 
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Kids aren’t the ones at risk of serious complications. It’s older staff and grandparents who serve as primary guardians (pretty common in my district).

Also, in Israel and South Korea, schools had to close again after seeing spikes in infections. I’m not sure that completely closing schools and businesses is the right policy (it might be better to find a more sophisticated approach targeted specifically at protecting the elderly), but it seems like kids definitely are capable of spreading it.

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Old 06-06-2020, 05:06 PM
 
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No air conditioning, wearing a mask all day!! Can't find me? I will be passed out on the floor!
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Old 06-06-2020, 07:43 PM
 
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Sorry but you all are debating as if any politician cares about teachers’ health and well being. The only thing that would keep us safe is parents not wanting to send their kids to school. And they pretty much ALL want to (at least around here).

We all know that all the logic we come up with doesn’t mean squat.

Sorry but that’s the reality.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:20 PM
 
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I canít believe you would hope to do hybrid learning.

1) students with working parents left at home alone

2) students with working parents left at home with older brother or sister (10Ė18 years old)

3) students left at home in domestic violence situations

4) teachers with students who are upper grades. How will they be home to help with online learning?

5) young teens left at home to learn online
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:24 PM
 
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So basically you have students going to daycare. And bringing all those germs to the school.

Itís less transmission if you just do the whole dam* day.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:06 AM
 
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For schools that open, what is the plan if a student or teacher gets diagnosed with covid??
As surly mentioned above, countries that reopened schools pretty quickly saw a spike in cases, traced back to schools. I know that in Israel, the policy is that they will "just" close the school that had a confirmed case. So, within a week of reopening, they had to close 87 schools and order all of those people connected to go under quarantine all over again. They are hoping to keep it contained in that way, but they have been closed much more tightly than many other places, this whole time.
Are American school systems prepared to close specific schools on a dime if someone gets diagnosed? What would happen with childcare and parent jobs then? Or would the school stay open with all of the students and teachers who have been exposed? Just think about how far less contagious illnesses spread like wildfire through a school in a regular basis. And multiply that!!
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Old 06-07-2020, 03:52 PM
 
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If there's a case, the school will be closed for a day for a "deep cleaning" and proven contacts of the infected person will be quarantined for a fortnight. It's happening in Sydney, but not so far in the regional/rural areas.
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Old 06-07-2020, 06:16 PM
 
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Proven contacts--does that include classmates and teachers? So, just individual classes in a school? That sounds like a nightmare for parents. Not to mention the school!

Last edited by Starr; 06-07-2020 at 06:38 PM..
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:48 AM
 
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We have no definite guidance/rules until next week but have heard that certain sped students would be have full-time school. These would be moderate needs with pull out services and severe needs in special programs. Mild needs that are mostly inclusion would be in a hybrid model. However, we have no idea what will happen yet. It could be that we will go in as usual or that cases rise and we do a hybrid. I expect things could be in flux right up to 2 weeks before schools start.
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They already told us we're going back
Old 06-08-2020, 10:51 AM
 
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Our district informed us last week that we are returning back in August to a "pre-covid" work schedule. We have been told that if we have any symptoms or even spike a fever above 100 degrees that we must "immediately leave" the campus and submit our leave time.

I think it's unfair for me to have to use my personal leave time if being exposed to an occupational hazard.

There have been ZERO talks about reducing classroom size. They only care about getting the kids back. No mention at all about keeping employees safe.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:23 AM
 
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Any illness could be an occupational hazard of being a teacher.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:18 PM
 
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The problem isn't only the well being of the teachers. It is the format of a school, one sick student or teacher can potentially spread it to tens of more others in the building who will then be going home spreading it to others who will do the same. Hence, the spike of cases in places where schools reopened. The spike was not attributed to only teachers being the ones that ended up getting sick. Rather, to the teachers inadvertently spreading it to many others.

(In any case, that's a bizarre premise in a pandemic situation. Yes, catching a cold or flu illness is a hazard of being a teacher. Not being in danger of catching an extremely contagious and potentially dangerous illness that is way more deadly and spreading than the flu. Certainly not a dangerous illness that as yet there is no vaccine for.)
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Any illness could be an occupational hazard of being a teacher.
Yeah but you cannot compare COVID to the flu or a common cold. There is MUCH greater risk that comes with COVID. Has the country/world ever shut down for the flu etc? No. Have doctor's offices, surgeries etc stopped for 3 months at any other point in time for some other illness? Nope.

So that alone makes this an illness to take extra precautions for.


Edited: Starr - agree with what you said as well.
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:03 PM
 
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Also, bottom line is no matter what the school year will look like for you - the question to be asking is how are teachers and staff going to be protected as well. They need to be able to answer that confidently and with proactive solutions.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:17 PM
 
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There is a much greater risk for some with this virus, but some are at higher risk for the usual illnesses as well. I would be curious to know more about the spikes with schools reopening. Iíve seen instances where schools report cases and take proactive measures, but states are reopening, riots are happening, and there still isnít a massive wave of hospital overload in most places. Have the reactions to more common illnesses been the same as the drastic measures taken the past few months? No. But there are cases to be made (accidental pun) that those measures went too far. If the goal is to keep the medical system from becoming overwhelmed and schools reopening donít impact that in the wrong direction, then schools need to open. We canít hide forever and the may never get a vaccine or treatment.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:33 PM
 
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Spikes take 2-14 days so maybe we'll see in a week or so. Schools that opened in other countries are now shutting down again. So it seems like a terrible amount of work to start school, only to end up closing down again. Especially for a few weeks or months, before the temps get cooler again. Lives - both students and staff - should not be gambled with. Again, this hasn't been around a long time so the true effect of if schools don't impact in the wrong direction simply cannot be made. I highly doubt parents are willing to take part in that "study" to wait and see.



"But there are cases to be made (accidental pun) that those measures went too far." - I rather be overly safe, than "so sorry, too bad". But I come back to my original point: if a state can offer guidance that protects staff too, then sure - let's open. But they cannot do that. CA just cut budget out for education so there's a lot to think about.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:51 PM
 
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A school district can always plan to reevaluate on a monthly or biweekly basis. Nobody is saying schools are staying closed the whole next year.
Regarding the protests...that may be a good litmus in another week or so, to see if there are spikes in certain locations.
Btw, the info I posted yesterday about 87 Israeli schools needing to close has increased to 127 in the past couple of days...and they are thinking of reclosing the entire school system, originally they had said they were extending the school year to mid July to make up for the previous closure. (Obviously, that is a tiny country, more comparable to one U.S. state.)
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Well
Old 06-08-2020, 06:36 PM
 
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Nobody was saying that schools would be closed the rest of the last school year, but thatís exactly what happened. There will continue to be cases of this as things open, but staying closed in the hopes of vaccine or treatment isnít a solution. Those who want to stay home need to stay home, but that choice shouldnít be forced upon the rest of us. Denmark schools reopened and the outbreak didnít worsen. Sweden didnít close their schools for the under 16 crowd. Wuhan managed to do it, and most of our country doesnít look anything like that kind of population density. The real need for social interaction and actual education has to be balanced with the relatively low chance of death or debilitating complications with this plague.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:50 PM
 
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Sweden has been doing some backtracking and saying now they ideally should have handled things differently. No analysts are holding them up as a role model anymore.

BTW, there were plenty of people predicting back in March schools would stay closed for the rest of this school year. Basing it on places like South Korea (which is still getting praise for effectively dealing with the pandemic.)
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Hybrid, schmybrid!
Old 07-03-2020, 06:32 PM
 
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Our hyrbrid model discussion has involved:
1/2 kids come to school on M/W
The other half come T/TH
(Like College)

OR

1/2 choose A.M. Classes and at 11:00, "YEP! You guessed it!"
WE START ALL OVER!!!!
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