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Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD)
Old 04-06-2018, 03:22 PM
 
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I cannot think of a disorder I’d least prefer to have to accommodate in the classroom. My heart goes out to the families who have to deal with this for life.
A new darling heart landed in my classroom this week who has this label along with a host of other documented issues.
I’m in first grade.
Any good feedback or suggestions for
Tried and true strategies working with students with ODD?


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Love & logic
Old 04-06-2018, 05:21 PM
 
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I’ve had success using the love & logic approach with such students (well really all students). The strategies from love and logic that stand out to me for these type of kids are: choices, not getting into power struggles, and assuming compliance while walking away.

I teach older kids though, so maybe it wouldn’t be as successful with little ones. Best of luck! These kids are tough!
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:49 PM
 
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I feel for you...and I wish I had some good advice. That is one tough diagnosis. Avoiding the power struggle is all I can offer. Remaining calm, refusing to rise to the "bait". Wine...maybe wine?
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Odd
Old 04-06-2018, 07:59 PM
 
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Yep, this one is brutal. Love and Logic definitely.

One of mine loved to draw so I initiated Monart...goggle it. It's a prescribed style art program that everyone can do. Seriously.....everyone. If you follow it step by step you learn to draw, but you also learn discipline, creative criticism, patience, and a bit more.

It saved my butt.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:10 PM
 
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I'm also an advocate for Love and Logic...it works. I had kids who wanted that power struggle, never gave it to them.


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I have a boy with a similar diagnosis
Old 04-06-2018, 10:19 PM
 
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Not ODD but a resistance to being directly told what to do in combination with severe anxiety that made his first couple of years at school hell for everyone.

One of the things that did make life a little easier for his first teachers was still having expectations but giving the choice between two things. Will you read or do maths? for example. There was enough room for him to feel he had some power while the teacher was going to get some work done. This child now has what we call Wrap Around Services - there are three psychologists involved and he has a teacher aid full time. Not something your average kid gets and I have him for the next two years. Taking the pressure off while still expecting work is a tricky balance and after 17 years I still muck it up some days.

However it goes, whatever you do, do not take his behaviour as failure on your part or wear the bad days - you will be a wreck if you do. For both myself and his teacher aid, we take the attitude that some days will go well and some, well, we won't mention them However it turns out, we refuse to become run down by an 8 year old who refuses to work. Train your class to ignore any attention seeking behaviour - mine are fabulous at it - and let them know you are aware of it 'You are amazing at ignoring the distractions today - well done' and if appropriate, have a reward, a game they like, a story etc, get them on side.

If you can, find out what makes the child tick, what motivates him/her and how you can, for want of a better word, manipulate them with this. But don't let them see the frustrations when things don't go they way you hope - persevere but be prepared to try new tactics if necessary.

I hope that made some sense, it is not an easy one to deal with.
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Odd
Old 04-07-2018, 04:03 AM
 
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I have one this year. I always ask him to do the opposite of what I want. If I want him to walk to the office I say, “Please run to the office. Be sure to hurt yourself by falling or running into something.”
He does the exact opposite every single time! Now, I tested this with him with very safe directions in the beginning of the year to see how far I could go. For example I started with me saying, “Please do not sharpen pencils in the morning. I prefer you sharpen them during a time when I am talking to the class.” Works like a charm every time!
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:01 AM
 
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I had a student with odd a few years ago. I never lost my temper with him and I was always patient. What worked was giving him choices and asking him a question. I read that doing these two things makes them focus and changes the thinking in the brain. For example, do you want to write the answer in your notebook or on paper? Do you want to use your pencil or my pencil? I would also ask a question, what do you think about that? The key is to remain calm and not allow the student to take over the classroom. It’s a struggle every day, but after a few months the student responded an answer to me before I asked a question. Hang in there.
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I hate that
Old 04-07-2018, 05:05 AM
 
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This is considered a "diagnosis," as if it's a legitimate medical condition instead of an externally driven, conscious behavioral disposition.
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Difficult
Old 04-07-2018, 06:15 AM
 
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Does your student try to cause problems with other students? i have followed the suggestions of choices, teaching kids to ignore and not getting into a power struggle... but then When they start to make it about others and not just themselves such as saying things to other students or take papers from them or do things to upset them - that is when it is too hard... I can’t ignore if the other students become very upset...
is that another side of ODD?
That is definitely the most difficult to handle and makes every other issue seem easy-
I sympathize ...


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Take any opportunity
Old 04-07-2018, 07:49 AM
 
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...to report his parents for Child Abuse or Neglect.

Then Repeat. Behavior is language. Those kids come from abusive homes. Report Report Report. Don't ask your admin, just do it.

This can force the family into parenting classes and such that could actually help the child.

Tried and True Strategies: Strong Class Management with Rules and Consequences. Consistency. Well Taught Procedures. Of course if you're in a modern school that doesn't allow discipline, you're sol.

And What Keltik said, ART. And What Universal said. Love and Logic.
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Old 04-07-2018, 08:42 AM
 
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ODD is a listed diagnosis in the DSM-5 and studies have shown actual differences in the brain of a child with ODD. The definite causes of it are unknown but it is believed that it could be biological, caused by stress in the family or trauma. I wouldn't hesitate to report abuse if you suspect it but be aware ODD isn't always caused by abuse.

Love and Logic does work for many but I would recommend looking into Nurtured Heart when working with ODD or conduct disorder. It emphasizes the positive which for children who have learned how to tune out the word "no" and other negative comments can be very effective. I teach clients how to use this with their own children and I use it when working with children and have found it to be amazingly effective. I wish you the very best of luck, this is a difficult situation for all involved.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:06 AM
 
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I completely agree with your take on "ODD." Well stated!
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I am so sorry! Over the yrs, I have had a
Old 04-07-2018, 10:15 AM
 
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big handful of ODD and RAD. I am amazed by the patience lvl of many posters. Many are right on about avoid power struggles at all cost and remember you are giving him what he wants if you get mad. I have gotten mad before ( of course, I try not to) because some of the ones I had were so dangerous to other kids. I do not think other kids should have to tolerate the kind of behavior/ lack of safety in their learning environment. This is my experience w/ ODD kids, their parents are unstable as all get out. Many are extremely permissive and abusive. 1 day the kid may get smacked for something and the next day the parents may laugh at the same behavior. Report maybe the answer..IDK I never met a parent of an ODD kid who didn't answer my question, "Why is this kid so screwed up?" just by getting to know them a little. ( 2 of them though were with foster parents...1 of which was a pretty amazing lady!) Giving choices is def a way to make life easier. Wrap around services can help IF they will remove him when needed...not if they dictate what you have to do and divide staff. The last 1 I had, I prayed a lot for him and myself. That yr, I was able to keep my cool and figure out what worked for him. ( I do not get mad easily. It takes a lot, but ODD kids know or figure out where your buttons are and push them.) Never keep him in from recess. You need all of the breaks you can get!
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I forgot a couple of things
Old 04-07-2018, 10:59 AM
 
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If he is going to be with you all yr, try saying, " I'll think about it" instead of "No!" Also, walk away after giving directions. Don't let him draw you into a conversation about the directions or anything else.. Often when they don't get the response they want though, they escalate. If he escalates, get the other kids out of the room asap...library, outdoors, where ever. Call the office to keep him supervised and have fun w/ the other kids.
Find what he likes. If he likes being on the computer , drawing, or anything, give yourself at least a 30 minute break from him for your sanity sake. I have a kid this yr who will "cut off his nose to spite his face." He loves the computer, but really only 3 sites for games are allowed. They are academic w/ game themes. He asks to use the computer, knows the allowed sites, and the minute I turn my back, he flips the screen and goes to another site. Sometimes he asks to use the computer and I tell him the sites allowed and he just says never mind. The site he likes is somewhat inappropriate for school. Best wishes to you!
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:54 PM
 
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Surly, I agree with you. However, I feel ODD is usually a gateway diagnosis. I've always worked with prek. What was 4 year olds being 4 (despite no one else in the class doing such) can't be such once they're 10 and older. Whenever I hear ODD, my mind translates into "we don't know what is really wrong with the child".
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Spot on JDprek
Old 04-09-2018, 09:57 AM
 
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I appreciate your thoughtful comments, JDprek. You're right, a teacher should absolutely contact CPS is abuse is suspected, but ODD isn't always caused by abuse. Thank you for pointing this out.
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About ODD kids' parents...
Old 04-09-2018, 11:05 AM
 
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Some are absolute dumpster fires.

The ones I have met have other sibs with no issues. Parents didn't drink, drug, had jobs that needed post bachelor degrees. It wasn't meth head mom and unmedicated bipolar dad. These were not the adopted foster kids. These were their own biokids.

I get people think parents with ODD kids are sh*t parents. (If ODD is the correct diagnosis) However horrible you are taking it at school, the parents are getting 200% more at home.

I remember one mom just sobbing in her car as her son ran away to the playground. Scaled the swing set to sit on the tip top bar, refusing to come down.

You could have Gitmo tortured this kid, and he would have spit in your face inbetween the electric shocks and water boarding.

I don't know the reasons for ODD. Crap parenting doesn't help, but even wonderful people can wind up with this type of child.
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No. Just No.
Old 04-09-2018, 11:44 AM
 
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My autistic son also has a Dx of ODD along with ADHD and a mood disorder. I assure you that he DOES not come from an abusive home!
I can't imagine if a teacher had reported us for abuse and neglect on top of the trauma, heartbreak and difficulty of dealing with a child with a myriad of challenges.
Very uninformed comment. Right now we are dealing with the heartwrenching decision of whether to put our teen son into residential treatment for his issues.
Oh, and I have 3 other children who are completely "normal".
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Thanks for All of the Input
Old 04-09-2018, 06:51 PM
 
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I appreciate all of the feedback on this post. It pretty much reinforced what I have already come to know about working with these types of kids. Great reminders. I have worked with many children with this diagnosis in my career. It is quite a feat to remain patient/calm/even-tone for 8 hours a day with some of the extreme behaviors and aggressive language used by some (not all) of the students with ODD. I am just a human with feelings too! I know I chose this career for better or worse and I am the adult and I am in control. Vent- I just don't like how I feel at the end of every work day when I've expended 85% of my energy on keeping this level of calm. End rant.
I'm sorry to anyone who was offended by comments that suggested child abuse was a factor.
In the case of the student I am working with-- it actually is a factor as they were removed from there home for part of their childhood.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Take any opportunity
...to report his parents for Child Abuse or Neglect.

Then Repeat. Behavior is language. Those kids come from abusive homes. Report Report Report. Don't ask your admin, just do it.
That is such a dangerous leap. It is not a cause/effect thing 100% of the time as you imply here. Certainly abusive situations can lead to defiant children, but not all kids with ODD come from abusive homes. Many children with ODD come from overly permissive homes, and many come from homes with good discipline systems in place that are appropriate and positive. Others have said it better and offered good suggestions, so I'll stop there.

(Oh, but I do agree that behavior is a form of communication)
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