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What percentage of affect do you have on student learning
Old 12-22-2018, 07:16 AM
 
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I was reading an article about the teacher's affect on student learning. Would you agree?

Quote:
Professor Leslie Burns, an associate Professor of Literacy, Program Chair of English Education at the University of Kentucky points out much of a student's sucess in school depends on outside factors beyond the teacher or school district's control.

According to the RAND corporation, a teacher's quality *may* only account for up to 14% of a student's achievement in the classroom. In another report, the Heritage Foundation found that teacher quality *may* account for *up to* 30% of student learning.
Between those two very conservative organizations, that means anywhere from 70-86% of student learning in school is completely beyond the control of any individual teacher.


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Old 12-22-2018, 07:46 AM
 
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I would like to think that I have more of an effect but I feel like I’m swimming against the tide everyday. I know they aren’t always thinking about my lesson. They are thinking about the fight with their sibling, the dog died, I’m hungry, Fortnight, when is recess?, I lost my coat, what does glue taste like?, my parents hate each other, when is lunch?, I won’t be in school tomorrow because I have to go to the methadone clinic with my mom, that was my new coat, my stomach hurts, it’s raining, is recess outside?, is it time for lunch yet?, it’s snowing, are we going home yet? And on, and on, and on!
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I agree
Old 12-22-2018, 07:47 AM
 
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At the high school level they either want to learn or they donít. Grades are not real motivators and instead they are often used against them at home and at school. The letter counts, not the movement toward mastery.

I have done everything I can short of doing the work for them. In a low SES district education is not valued at home.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:57 AM
 
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Admin in low income schools want all that federal funding for their own pockets,their friends pockets(they hire them or give them contracts) and their family member's pockets(they hire them too) The "no excuses" management style blames solely the teacher . This then generates endless professional development and other bureaucracy at the district level. We are not supposed to think of any other excuse for the lack of achievement.
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:00 AM
 
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I think teacher quality is the deciding factor. I think a good teacher's effect on student learning is probably as much as 50%. I'm a realist. There are many factors outside the school that affect a student's ability to learn, but a well-educated teacher (and I do mean someone truly well-educated in the old liberal arts meaning of the word) can make all the difference in the classroom. I think education should be a minor, not a major, and every teacher should graduate with a liberal arts major of one kind or another. That includes primary teachers. Add to that an effective teaching personality (some have it, some don't) and the ability to connect with people who are not carbon copies of one's own background (a general ability to be open-minded and flexible) and a teacher can have a tremendous effect on the vast majority of students. We need those teachers, but we have fewer and fewer of them. People, many of them women who have those qualities and in other generations enriched the teaching field, are flocking to other professions that pay more and aren't subject to the disrespect engendered by the modern political climate of our country.

Since you asked about a teacher's "affect" on student learning, I'd say that percentage is about 90%. Most kids have to trust and respect a teacher before they're likely to make maximum progress in learning.


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Old 12-22-2018, 08:12 AM
 
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John Hattie is the guru of teacher effect size . He says that quality teaching has a .77 effect size and anything above .4 effect size is a year of growth. So we can all say wIth confidence that research shows quality teaching does matter. The effect size charts if you haven't seen them are fascinating. His books are also helpful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hatt...HgdfUtF_1TYFM:
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:13 AM
 
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Yes in the school setting of course teacher quality matters.
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:36 AM
 
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I think it is 50/50. Fifty percent is the teacher's effect, and fifty percent comes from the parents.
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Interesting
Old 12-22-2018, 09:40 AM
 
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I am not sure of the answer, but I was actually asked this question in an interview recently. In that setting, I didn't feel like I could answer anything other than a teacher plays a huge role...otherwise I felt like I was placing blame.

BUT...the truth is I think you could be the most amazing teacher in the world, and there would still be factors at work that you can't control that could affect student outcomes. And yes, some of that is student motivation.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:49 AM
 
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Based on nothing but my own experience, I feel itís like what they say about sex. When your sex life is good, itís 10% of your marriage. When itís bad, itís 90%.

If you have a good teacher, you can learn if all the other factors are there - parents value education, limited trauma, work ethic, growth mindset, etc. If the teaching is bad, it doesnít matter how ready to learn you are, you wonít learn.

So itís essential that teaching be excellent, but itís not solely the teacherís responsibility.


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Old 12-22-2018, 11:52 AM
 
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You know how there are classes that are absolutely buck wild with one adult, and docile as lambs with another? If all teachers had impeccable classroom management, then you could compare that way. If kids have three years in a row of fearing for their own and their teacher's physical safety daily or weekly at school, then their teacher quality has tanked their education. If they have three years in a row if absolutely stellar management and instruction, but have untreated mental health or family needs, then that tanks their education. You could never control the factors to do an actual study of this.
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Old 12-22-2018, 02:02 PM
 
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This is why NBCT should be the norm and not the oddity among teachers:

Quote:
Students taught by Board-certified teachers learn more than students taught by other teachers. Estimates of the increase in learning are on the order of an additional one to two months of instruction. The positive impact of having a Board-certified teacher (NBCT) is even greater for minority and low-income students.

This improvement in student outcomes is mirrored by NBCTs achieving stronger results on leading measures of teacher effectiveness, including robust classroom observations and value-added scores. The compelling research on the effectiveness of Board-certified teachers is particularly note worthy when compared to the lack of consistent research on the effectiveness of teachers with masterís degrees.
I firmly believe states need to provide generous and compelling incentives for teachers to earn NBCT. It's no coincidence the states with the highest number of NBCTs also offer stipends. At this point, only 3% of teachers are NBCT.
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Old 12-22-2018, 04:54 PM
 
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It's so important for all teachers to get training in reading ,interpreting and evaluating research.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:42 AM
 
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These studies crack me up.

(I'm not a statistical nihilist but I also don't worship sacred cows.)

We'll be having this same debate/discussion a hundred years from now--partly because some of these statistical gurus don't understand the difference between cause and correlation.

What I do know is that I personally had some teachers who had a huge impact on what I learned. I also had some teachers I can't even remember.

I'm guessing the teachers who had a huge impact hadn't seen the studies (or maybe they hadn't been done yet) saying they only had a 14% opportunity with me.

I know one statistic I'd be interested in... how many of us can remember one teacher who had a huge impact on our lives and learning?
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NBCT standard deviational differences CEDR
Old 12-23-2018, 01:51 PM
 
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Abstract: We study the effectiveness of teachers certified by the National Board
for Professional Teaching Standards (NBPTS) in Washington State, which has one
of the largest populations of National Board Certified Teachers (NBCTs) in the
nation. Based on value-added models in math and reading, we find that NBPTS
certified teachers are about 0.01-0.05 student standard deviations more effective
than non-NBCTS with similar levels of experience. Certification effects vary by
subject, grade level, and certification type, with greater effects for middle school
math certificates. We find mixed evidence that teachers who pass the assessment
are more effective than those who fail, but that the underlying NBPTS assessment
score predicts student achievement. Finally, we use the individual assessment
exercise scores to estimate optimal weights for value-added prediction


Not very strong. Recently spoke with Dr. Nell Duke regarding this and she said that the positive effect of NB certification is not compelling enough for the state of Michigan to incentivize. I followed up the conversation by looking for research that did not come from NB and found the above.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
is not compelling enough for the state of Michigan to incentivize.

Of course not. Because Michigan.
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Agree
Old 12-25-2018, 06:29 PM
 
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Feeling the same way. I am hoping I can recharge over this vacation and feel better about how much I make a difference.
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Thank you all for your discussion
Old 01-13-2019, 07:22 AM
 
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Regarding the NBCT: Do states where there is a high number of NBCT teachers require certification in their subject to begin with?

In Texas, before one can be a certified teacher they have to pass a professional test and a test in their subject. Then many districts offer stipends for content areas in which the state is finding a shortfall such as math, science.
****
Regarding that liberal arts degree: "I think education should be a minor, not a major, and every teacher should graduate with a liberal arts major of one kind or another. That includes primary teachers."

To begin with, kuddos to primary teachers as you have to teach so many different preps and almost a "jack of all content areas." However as to the liberal arts degree, a conversation I had with a retired business human resource person was that they felt for a business degree all students should have a liberal arts degree major, minor in business then a master's in business. So essentially the first two years of liberal arts materials and the last two years on your content. (Now it is pretty mixed, right?)

I would have to differ for those teachers in middle school up. It is very important to know your content. We have had administrators with the idea that having someone with a general (all content cert) works great. And they do from an admin POV - they fit into the schedule well. However, department heads or curriculum designers spend much time re-educating these folks in the content areas in which they are weak. Maybe you don't see that much in ELAR or Social Studies, but we do see that problem in math and science. So maybe a major in the content area and minor in liberal arts?

(thank you for bringing this up Cassyree!)

*****

Regarding the right personality to teach.

Quote:
Add to that an effective teaching personality (some have it, some don't) and the ability to connect with people who are not carbon copies of one's own background (a general ability to be open-minded and flexible) and a teacher can have a tremendous effect on the vast majority of students. We need those teachers, but we have fewer and fewer of them.
I think this gets mightily overlooked.

*****
Regarding relationships with students: Some mentioned that this was very important. But sometimes "relationships with students" can be bad.

So is it really more about "leadership" in the classroom than "relationships"?

By leadership, I mean these leadership qualities:*
personal sacrifice in pursuit of common good
how to share your ideas persuasively
how to instill confidence in others
how to inspire others
how to have candid conversations
delegation
how to grow others
how to empower people
diplomacy
graciousness
how to simultaneously see the 30,000- and 10-foot views

(*Good article on this: http://www.giftedguru.com/less-leade...re-followship/ )
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