at all times when students are sitting for large groups time on carpet? I am just wondering if I should EXPECT kinder/first graders to sit criss-cross aplesauce, hands in lap when having a whole group lesson and for how long should I expect them to be able to sit like this? It is so hard to get them to LISTEN for any period of time- Jut wondering what your magic solutions are?? smile
Even at fifth grade, my students and I still do a lot of work on the floor in a whole group setting. Beacuse of this, I think you should expect criss-cross applesauce. If the students are trained well in the primary grades, then it makes my job a lot easier!!!
I agree that it helps to begin teaching kids early to sit still during lesson time. However, I think when working with k-1 you also need to remember how difficult it is to be still at that age. It helps to add a few "wiggle songs" along the way. If used appropriately during lesson times kids will sit and attend for longer periods. I have watched kindergarteners stay at the carpet for an hour when allowed to stand and "wiggle" to music 2-3 times.
We do criss-cross applesauce, spoons in the bowl for every lesson. Lessons on the carpet rarely last more than 15 minutes. Then they go back to their seats or to their groups for activities that reinforce the lesson. I don't have much trouble with kids sitting quietly on the carpet for lessons, but we do lots of lessons with magnets on the board, pocket charts, etc. I tell them that only those who are sitting criss-cross applesauce, spoons in a bowl with get to participate with the magnets and pocket charts. They love to participate, so they sit quietly. They know what's expected to get to do what they want to do, so they can sit quietly.
I have to admit for years I always expected and insisted that they sit criss cross applesauce, hands in the lap ( and still do). But since I started teaching children with PT and OT needs as well as severe sensory issues (inclusion and non inclusion children) and speaking with these professionals, I have gained a new appreciation for how difficult it is for young children but especially those with ADD, sensory, OT, PT issues to do it for extended periods of time. Last year, I had a little boy who wore braces on his legs.
heck, I have trouble sitting criss cross applesauce for more than 15 minutes myself!
Anyway, I'm not saying they shouldn't sit this way. It helps to keep everyone in their own personal space and face it, it keeps our sanity but I just wanted to through another perspective into the mix for those kids who just don't seem to be able to do it, it might send a red flag that you might need to investigate further or understand where they are coming from.
PS - The PTs I have worked with have all said, that sitting that way is horrible for your muscles. My next response to them is how to deal with 20 kids intertwined and knocking into each other during a lesson. How to keep the personal space? I never get an answer.
Where did criss cross applesauce come from? I've never heard of this before moving out of state. I didn't know what the teacher meant when she said that to a group of children on the floor. The kids understood. It makes no sense to me at all. What does applesauce have to do with sitting on the carpet. How does criss cross have anything to do with applesauce?? I still think its pretty strange.
And the teachers use checks marks for CORRECT answers. I took a stack of papers and was helping by checking the scores because the kids checked their own papers. The correct answers were marked with an X. How strange! Anyone knows a check mark is for an incorrect answer.
Instead of F for failing they mark the papers with an E! I was always using Es for excellent.
I feel like I moved to a very odd state. There are more regional quirks but these are the ones I just don't understand.
Have you ever just stopped for a minute and looked at your K class sitting on the carpet. It is so funny. All of the kids are moving, twisting, wiggling. It is like an ADHD convention. Sometimes I just watch and smile to myself.
Experienced early childhood educators know that rhyme very well! I learned it back in the 60s/70s when it was not PC to say, "Sit Indian style" any longer (as if it ever was!) I learned the ryhme as follows: Criss-cross applesauce Pockets on the floor...(referenced back poskets, thus, bottoms on the floor) Hands in your lap....(alternate line...spoons in the bowl) And wiggle no more!
I don't know if there is a history behind it...probably similar to all the nursery rhymes we chant that are referenced back to problems in England, plagues, and wars in early days! I do know that it was a great rhyme and easy to remember for the little guys. They loved saying it...the melodic chanting is something Kinders LOVE doing. It's silly but works VERY well.
In answer to the OP's question...expect nothing. If you mean expect that they already know it...not until you teach it. If you mean expect they're capable of maintaining that position...not for very long. Kinders need movement balanced with sitting activities. As the year progresses, so do they.
I agree with msharkey... I think it's a lot to expect for all children to be comfortable in a criss cross position for very long. Yes, I teach it and yes, I do expect (to a degree) that they will sit like that. But if they are going to put their legs out to the side or start to move and groove, I think we need to be flexible. They are doing what they need to listen. Also- kids who really have trouble sitting in this position should NOT be forced to. I give them alternate seating arrangements- like a chair that "hugs" them.
I am an experienced early ed teacher. I even have a degree in it. I still never heard of criss cross applesauce. I don't use it even though they say it here. I just think it sounds weird. I do tell them to get into listening position. They have that in their desks as well. Be a good listener is what I want them to do. My class is second grade though. I want them to realize what is expected of them, not to respond to some silly rhyme. That's the part of early ed. I didn't like-all the silly finger plays and songs. I felt so dumb doing them. I decided I wasn't cut out for this age group because it was embarrassing to have anyone walk in and see me doing these things. I grew up before there were so many daycares and preschools. My instructor thought that everybody knew all the finger plays and songs. I stayed at home until I went to Kindergarten at age 6. I was the older girl in my family. It was expected that I help take care of the other kids in my family. I guess I had to grow up fast. I could read before I went to school. I remember helping the low kids in Kindergarten when they got stuck. My work was done as soon as all the papers were passed out. Maybe this is where I picked up my teacher skills.
in my classroom. I teach K and we have short story time on the rug. I found that lots of fingers were getting stepped on and kids would be trying to lay down. I couldn't have 24 kids all over the place. I call them to the rug by colored dots (about 5 per color) and they sit criss-cross applesauce. They also put their hands in the laps. This has eliminated the fingers getting stepped on and all the shuffling around. I have had several resource teachers comment on how my class is better behaved on the rug than others. I also call them by names to go back to their seats so no one gets stepped on. It does work. But....we don't stay there for more than 10-15 minutes.
I teach 2nd and I usually allow my students to sit 1 of 3 ways. Criss-cross, on their knees, or legs out straight. We sit on the outside edge of the carpet so all students can see no matter how they sit. This works well but some kids do try to take advantage and wiggle too much. When they do I just tell them they have to stay criss-cross.
The term "criss cross applesauce" may sound silly but it is in the "silly" grades that the students learn to listen, respond, ask questions,take turns, ....oh, and read and write and blend, and add........ So if it works go for it. I think of early grades as a chance for me to be a drama "diva" and have the freedom to be creative. Its part of why I chose this age level, and part of why others don't. Such things may no longer seem necessary in higher grades, but in my experience, the sixth graders who come in to buddy with my class LOVED to get silly, move around to the beat, get stickers, and stamps on their hands, just like my class did. Maybe it works 'cause its fun.
Anyway, I was really posting to say no K child should be expected to sit still in any position longer than 1 minute per year of age. plus 2...so 7 minutes is the optimum in one position or doing one thing in K, 8 min in first, etc, according to my recent 2 day PD seminar on brain research. And after age 18 we do not change, so even myself at 51 years old...... 20 minutes on one subject or doing one thing is my optimum. After that, the activity, position, or focus, must be changed. (in other words our staff meetings are 20 minutes too long for optimum involvement and performance unless we get out of our chairs and move. Fortunately our principal attended the same seminar and she builds that in).
I have my first graders sit on the carpet for the duration of the lesson. It rarely takes more than 15 minutes, but they are attentive for that long. If they wiggle around a little, I don't make a big deal out of it as long as they are listening. And I do have them participate with pocket chart materials and manipulatives. I do know that if I have them sit at their seats during a lesson, they don't listen. They play with stuff in their desks and tip in their chairs. I'm not sure we could cover the concepts that we have to cover in 8 minutes or less.
Actually, you don't have to change what you're doing. According to this speaker, anytime you add in things like manipulatives, movement, songs, pocket chart, games, etc (things we use in primary grades all the time) you are changing the focus. Its over 8 minutes of exactly the same position or activity that she was saying is not a developmentally appropriate expectation.
I can be silly when the time is right. I don't care to be when I'm giving directions. I want them to know I mean what I say then. I'm in second anyway. I wouldn't care to do K or 1st. I give some stickers or stamps once in awhile. I don't stamp their hands though. When my son was little I didn't want anyone stamping up his hands so now I don't want to get any parents upset by doing that. Working in some of the toughest inner cities makes it hard to be silly. The kids seem to grow up faster here. Anything that is unstructured can't last too long or they can't handle it.
Thanks everyone- your comments were really helpful. Bertie- thanks for the tip from the brain research seminar- GREAT TIP!!! I will try to remember that one in my daily plans. And I personallyt believe that no child is too big for positive reinforcment- especially K-5th. I have a 5th grader and she has noticed that the parties and all the a'fluff' has ended- a bit sad- they have to grow up soon enough. I think they appreicate being allowed to be kids. You can have high expectations and firm management and still have fun- you just have to hae patience as well. Thanks for all thoughts- really helpful!!
Leslie
Please don't cave in to political correctness. The correct term is "sitting Indian style." Native Americans are NOT offended by the term. The only people who find it offensive are a bunch of whiny American liberals.
I am a teacher of nearly 20 3-5 year olds, God bless them, and I nearly have my degree. While I was doing circle time once, one of my kids asked me where Criss Cross Applesauce came from. I always try to encourage questions and always try to explain difficult words. I told her that I would try to find out and then tell the whole class what I found out.
I had a hard time finding any definitive information, but came up with two overall themes:
1.) It was an attempt to be politically correct. This particular sitting style used to be more commonly known as sitting Indian Style. Some people thought that was a slight on our Native American neighbors and thus the change was introduced.
2.) Someone came up with a cutsey song or rhyme for sitting Criss Cross Applesauce, and it was so much more cuter and neater than sitting Indian Style that it caught on like wild fire in the early childhood education field.
My four year old grandson knows the drill already and has for a couple of years. He will sit criss cross applesauce and tell us that he is listening. Teachers of young children have to have classroom routines that keep order and maximize time on task so children can learn. But most of all, the quality educator has a healthy helping of common sense to know when it's time to bend, stretch, or break a rule. This is especially true for any learner with a disablity. I enjoyed reading all of these intelligent comments. It proves my theory that teachers are really in essence "Brain Surgeons".
Saying criss-cross applesauce it is just so pc. Stop using cutesy words and
call it, what it is, sitting Indian style. I would have my doubts about any boy who said those words.
03-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Simple View
