As far as I'm concerned the celebrity/sports sickness which pollutes so many minds in America has really come to the front with Joe Paterno's passing. His worshippers are reputedly still upset over his being fired. Knowing that little boys are being raped and not using his stature to make sure the criminal involved was prosecuted disqualifies Paterno from hero status in my mind. It makes him less than a regular person. His service should have been small and private. What do the 12,000 people at his service today plan to do to help the victims of Paterno's complicity?
stopped letting him coach, but they never stopped paying him!! He was going to be allowed his regular retirement process.
I agree. People are unable to deal with the fact that their hero (and what's so heroic about football, basketball, etc.?) lacked ethics. Oh, well, let the games continue! Never mind all the children who suffered because he failed to take action against a child predator when he could have.
I'm not a football fan. I've never lived in Pennsylvania. But I have to wonder about people who seem obsessed with putting all the blame on a celebrity. There seems to be plenty of blame to go around, from the rapist himself to the university officials to whom Joe Paterno reported the hearsay testimony he was privy to. Paterno wasn't an eye witness. There was one (or more), apparently, who didn't do very much about it. Why focus all your anger on Paterno? He seems to have been punished (without a trial.)
A. He lost his job.
B. He lost his reputation
C. He's dead.
Is a whole life's work worth nothing now? Is any good he may have done in his life worthless against this one egregious error? What more should be done? Should people drag his body through the streets? Should they spit on his grave?
Paterno wasn't an eye witness. There was one (or more), apparently, who didn't do very much about it. Why focus all your anger on Paterno? He seems to have been punished
The coach KNOWS what goes on in his locker room! Numerous former college coaches have said this.
Bobby Bowden said Paterno was was “negligent”
Barry Switzer said "Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,” Switzer said. "Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time."
Paterno knew Sandusky was having inappropiate relations with a boy in the shower. The indictment also said that Paterno said that McQueary was very upset.
I've said it before on here but if your child or nephew or grandchild or friend of the family was a victim would you be an apologist for Paterno?
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Is a whole life's work worth nothing now? Is any good he may have done in his life worthless against this one egregious error?
I've said it before on here but if your child or nephew or grandchild or friend of the family was a victim would you be an apologist for Paterno?
I'm certainly not an apologist, but if someone close to me were a victim, I would be more focused on the perpetrator, and seeing that he was punished under the law. Certainly, I would have wanted Paterno held accountable for his lack of action, but he wouldn't be the primary focus of my concern.
I certainly wouldn't begrudge him a decent funeral, a nice obituary, or worry that someone might say something nice about him in a eulogy. I wouldn't throw stones at his widow.
Teachers are mandated reporters. You suspect child abuse and report it. Those who you reported it to choose not to do anything with that information. The child is abused again and tragically dies. The public blames you for the child's death. After all, you could have reported it to someone else instead of following the protocol. YOU should have contacted the police yourself. You could have and should have done so many things but all you did was report it like you were supposed to. It's your fault the child died. Now you should lose your job, never to teach again, and everyone should hate and despise you. You are scum.
I forget about how noble and inspiring Paterno's life was! What's a little raping of children when you stack it up against the amazing accomplishment of collecting millions of dollars a year coaching football while being treated like a hero.
My post was about the 12,000 sick or stupid people who gathered to honor Paterno in his death. His death should have been a time to think about how your life can be defined by one important chapter. Would you recommend that Medal of Honor receipients not be given much respect because their heroic deeds usually only take minutes or at most hours to complete?
Anyone who tries to whitewash Paterno's legacy need his or her moral compass checked.
Last edited by teach2read10; 01-27-2012 at 05:23 PM..
Reason: CAPS
Truly sick that people made excuses for him even after the truth came out.
I think Paterno is lower than the actual perpetrator, who was arguably mentally ill and driven by a perverted sexual compulsion. Paterno, on the other hand, was just a smart sociopath who couldn't have cared less about those kids or anyone but himself.
Last edited by Ball Three; 01-27-2012 at 07:09 PM..
actual perpetrator, who was arguably mentally ill and driven by a perverted sexual compulsion.
This is BS. You want to crucify Paterno but excuse the perpetrator because he was mentally ill and driven by a perverted sexual compulsion. He was a rapist pure and simple. He took advantage of young boys and played on their trust. He knew what he was doing. You can't beat on Paterno and say he was more guilty. He had second information that he gave to the proper authorities. He thought he had done the right thing with the little he had. THe witness went home spoke with his dad and the next day saw Paterno. Obviously the witness did not think too much about witnessing the rape.
Paterno will answer for any crime he committed. He paid a price. I wonder how many of you look the other way when a child is hurting. Abuse is physicial, verbal and/or sexual. Before you cast stones, think of yourself and how you react to news given you.
Paterno will answer for any crime he committed. He paid a price. I wonder how many of you look the other way when a child is hurting. Abuse is physicial, verbal and/or sexual. Before you cast stones, think of yourself and how you react to news given you.
I am confident none of us would cover up abuse for 7 plus years!!!
when I was a child. It was by a relative. The adults in my life refused to believe me. It has scared me I know. The first betrayal was my relative, but I think the worst betrayal was when no one believed me. That hurt the most.
When things like this come up in the news, everything comes crashing back. Who is more guilty? I don't know or care. Anyone who knows about this kind of thing and continues to say nothing is guilty.
The man positively effected thousands of people. He taught them a lot more about life than football. That's why thousands of people have stood up for him through this situation. A situation that he did not create.
If an adult comes to me and says I saw someone else commiting a crime, I'm going to tell them to call the police because if I do it myself, they are not going to want to talk to me. It seems people think he saw these actions going on and he did not. At the time it was reported to him, he wasn't even Sandusky's boss, he had no authority. He didn't cover up what he was told, he told the authorities at the university but it wasn't his place to call the police.
As many have said, he died of a broken heart. Hopefully people will just let the man rest in peace and be mature enough to let his friends and family grieve without name calling.
Klarabelle, you had to chop my sentence in half to make it seem that I "excused" the actual child rapist, though anyone who reads my post knows I did not.
My point was simply that Paterno, with all his power and his obligation to the community that trusted his leadership, chose to let a serial rapist continue abusing children when any person with a trace of courage or humanity would have stepped in and followed through.
said, "Our lives begin to end the day we keep silent about things that matter." I think he meant we become a little less human. People who make excuses for others who do nothing are no better than that person. But it takes courage to step up. There are many besides Paterno who should have had the courage to step up. There are no monsters in this world unless we somehow allow them to exist.
It seems people think he saw these actions going on and he did not. At the time it was reported to him, he wasn't even Sandusky's boss, he had no authority. He didn't cover up what he was told, he told the authorities at the university but it wasn't his place to call the police.
To quote Barry Switzer ""Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,”
Also why everything was kept secret until AFTER he got the record and why did he started transfering assets out of his name?
Paterno let this go on and did nothing. Paterno should have made enough noise to stop what was going on. It happened in his own locker room!! Any grown man who took a shower with a young boy should have been kicked out and never allowed back in! But I guess not with Paterno.
Why Penn State fans and Paterno apologists continue to make excuses for this lowlife baffles me.
I guess I just wonder why all of the blame is heaped on Paterno? Why haven't I heard anything about McQuery? Why haven't I heard anything about the cops who knew but "didn't find anything" in their investigation. There was a newspaper reporter who tried to report it but was not allowed. While I think Paterno could have done more, I don't think he alone should bare the brunt of this crime.
I think many, many people loved Paterno before any of this ever came to light and they still do.
Since Mr. Sensai has quoted Barry Switzer twice now, I thought others might be interested in a fuller quote.
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“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time,” Switzer said in an interview with The Oklahoman newspaper.
Former Oklahoma University and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer says members of the Penn State coaching staff had to be aware of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky’s alleged behavior.
Switzer added that others outside the Penn State program had to have known as well.
“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew,” Switzer said.
Switzer said the tragedy of the situation was that no one stepped up to put a stop to Sandusky.
“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director. There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could’ve done something about this, too’ that didn’t come forward. That’s the tragedy of it,” he said.
Since Mr. Sensai has quoted Barry Switzer twice now, I thought others might be interested in a fuller quote.
Thank you for further proving my point. Yes there were "There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director."
BUT
those people had less power than Paterno and some are being investigated. Paterno had a LOT of sway and influence at Penn State.
Paterno got fired and a free pass as far as I am concerned. What is more sickening is the idolization of him. Though I am sure history will not be kind to him.
it's okay if I look the other way on child abuse because I don't have as much power as say, Joe Paterno? I get a pass, because you have bigger idols to pull down? (I don't think so!) Everyone who knew something is guilty. Those with first hand, eye witness knowledge are more guilty.
You believe Barry Switzer's testimony that Paterno and everyone else "knew" even though Barry A) couldn't possibly know what everybody knew, and B) Switzer held a long standing grudge against Paterno, because C) You WANT to believe that Paterno "knew" because it fits in with your desire to hate a dead man.
Switzer may be right. It certainly seems logical. But in the end, it's merely his opinion. It's not "evidence," which is how you have used it in this thread.
I don't idolize Paterno. He admitted he should have done more. I agree. But I'm not a Paterno-hater, either. I think he should take all the blame that is his, but I don't think he should be a scape-goat.
P.S. How is being "fired" equivilent to getting a free pass?
that, since Paterno is now DEAD, he is above all reproach, because all dead people deserve RESPECT??? Those comments are driving me crazy.
Just because a person is DEAD doesn't excuse the evil they have perpetrated in this universe. Just because others may have also known what was going on doesn't make Paterno less guilty.
I'm thinking that some teachers on this board, when they catch someone doing something wrong, all that kid has to do is point to others doing it and he is immediately forgiven.
If this mode of thinking were in any way logical or correct, then Hitler would have long ago qualified for sainthood. After all, he did a lot for the German economy and he made the world safe for the blond and blue-eyed.
Usually, when you have to bring up Hitler in a discussion, it means you're pretty desperate.
I don't claim you have to forgive Paterno because he's dead. But he is beyond any earthly punishment. Perhaps one the differences between you and me is that I do believe in a final judgement before a just God who will mete out true justice. Therefore, I'm content that it be so.
Because he is dead, he can't be tried. There are many living who are similarly guilty. They are NOT beyond legal reach. If you're looking for justice to be meted out, you should concentrate on the living: Sandusky, et al.
I don't think he gets forgiveness just because he's dead. I just think it's futile to hang a dead man, or continue to rail against him.
Last edited by PrivateEyes; 01-30-2012 at 01:56 PM..
Yes, they're all the same. Jack the Ripper, Hitler, Stalin, and Paterno. They bear the same moral equivalence.
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It is generally accepted that whoever is the first to play the "Hitler card" has lost the argument as well as any trace of respect, as having to resort to comparing your adversary to the most infamous mass-murdering dictator in history generally means you've run out of better arguments.
As for this statement of yours:
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And no, I don't think we get pie in the sky when we die.
Is there some unwritten rule that atheists and agnostics must refer to the religious beliefs of others in a rude and condescending manner, or is that merely your own personal idiosyncrasy?
It is generally accepted that whoever is the first to play the "Hitler card" has lost the argument as well as any trace of respect, as having to resort to comparing your adversary to the most infamous mass-murdering dictator in history generally means you've run out of better arguments.
I did not compare "my adversary" to Hitler. I used Hitler as an example of someone who is already dead, in response to your assertion that
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I just think it's futile to hang a dead man, or continue to rail against him.
wondering if you thought the same of all people who committed heinous acts who are now dead.
And yes, I happen to think that the crime of OMISSION, i.e., doing nothing when something should be done, is nearly as bad, if not AS BAD as the COMMITTED CRIME, e.g., all the moms who know their husbands are molesting their children and yet pretend not to know. Who is more guilty?
For the last time, Paterno was NOT fired. Read all about it here:
And yes, as long as people post offensive remarks about how I should be reacting to someone's evil acts because THEY believe in a "just God," then I guess I am free to post my opinion of that God.
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Perhaps one the differences between you and me is that I do believe in a final judgement before a just God who will mete out true justice. Therefore, I'm content that it be so.
Because he is dead, he can't be tried. There are many living who are similarly guilty. They are NOT beyond legal reach. If you're looking for justice to be meted out, you should concentrate on the living: Sandusky, et al.
But you don't really get how your comments are exactly what you accuse me of doing, do you?
Oh, explaining my beliefs as a reason why I might not be as upset about a dead man's crimes as you are is offensive? Only to those determined to be offended at every mention of religion, I think.
I never said YOU should react the way I do. You're entitled to react any way you like. I merely said that my beliefs might explain why I'm not as het up about this as you seem to be. You seem to believe that everyone should be anti-Paterno. I'm explaining why I'm not. IMHO, justice is out of my hands (and into better ones.) I know YOU don't believe that, but since I do, that's why I don't give a damn who still loves and/or idolizes Paterno.
My suggestion that you concentrate on urging the prosecution of the living wasn't because of my religious beliefs, but merely on practical grounds.
Only to those determined to be offended at every mention of religion, I think.
Yet you have the inalienable right to be offended at every allusion to non-religion. Go figure.
No one said the living should not or would not be prosecuted. But the dead do not earn special points just for having died.
You brought religion into this. So I responded in kind. It is sad that a living non-religious person can't catch the same break as a dead presumably religious person.
I'm not offended by every illusion to non-religion. I believe people have the right to believe or not believe in any number of religions. I wasn't offended by your atheism. I was offended by your deliberately offensively worded illusion to my beliefs. It would be disingenuous of you to pretend you didn't know that
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pie in the sky when we die.
would be insulting and offensive. It was a deliberate word choice chosen to display your disdain for what I believe.
it's okay if I look the other way on child abuse because I don't have as much power as say, Joe Paterno? I get a pass, because you have bigger idols to pull down? (I don't think so!) Everyone who knew something is guilty. Those with first hand, eye witness knowledge are more guilty.
You should at least do more than Paterno did! Paterno let this go on for over 7 years!! He could have easily stopped this as he had far more sway than others there.
I am baffled on why you are sticking up for Paterno? Innocent children were abused and it seems you lack empathy for them.
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You believe Barry Switzer's testimony that Paterno and everyone else "knew" even though Barry A) couldn't possibly know what everybody knew, and B) Switzer held a long standing grudge against Paterno, because C) You WANT to believe that Paterno "knew" because it fits in with your desire to hate a dead man.
A.) I trust Switzer a former coach (and Bowden whose views were similar) over you. Coaches KNOW what goes on in their locker rooms.
B.) I do not think Switzer made the statement to get back at Paterno.
C.) Ummm... the investigation shows Paterno knew! Also enough with the dead man nonsense. Just because a scumbag dies does not mean all is forgiven. I hold Paterno in the same regard as Sandusky.
To use an anaolgy: Sandusky was the bank robber and Paterno was the get away driver.
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P.S. How is being "fired" equivilent to getting a free pass?
Hmmm he avoided the courts for starters.
Again why everything was kept secret until AFTER he got the record and why did he started transfering assets out of his name?
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I don't claim you have to forgive Paterno because he's dead. But he is beyond any earthly punishment. Perhaps one the differences between you and me is that I do believe in a final judgement before a just God who will mete out true justice. Therefore, I'm content that it be so.
Wait what? So why have a justice system? Instead let's have a mythical higher power in the sky dish out the justice when they die.
quote equally offensive to my belief system. Yes, I was offended by your "deliberately offensively worded illusion [sp. allusion] to my beliefs."
In fact, I find comments such as this one:
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Perhaps one the differences between you and me is that I do believe in a final judgement before a just God who will mete out true justice.
to be a purposeful dig at my personal belief that there not only is no JUST GOD, there most likely isn't any God at all. Yet, you dismiss my concerns because you KNOW that God is sitting up in the sky somewhere, waiting to deliver justice to Paterno. Therefore, the people who are upset are just so many silly non-believers who don't realize that right now, Paterno is standing in line before the pearly gates, shaking in his boots as he awaits his audience with God. Oh, please!
And I do believe that you honestly do NOT realize how offensive your comments are to those of us who don't share your religious imagination. That is the saddest part of all.
You must disagree with your statement that there "most likely" is not a god. I can guarantee with absolute certainty god does not exist. If I am wrong may I please be struck dead at this moment!
But sometime you should read The Monkey's Paw, a classic British ghost story that makes that point far more skillfully (and scarily) than I.
You can probably google the title and find it on the net.
01-26-2012, 07:44 PM
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