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The problem with PBIS

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Daphne333 Daphne333 is offline
 
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The problem with PBIS
Old 10-12-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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If I hear, "What are we gonna get or what am I gonna get," one more time after giving a student a complement, I'm going to scream. I just might scream, "PBIS sucks and feeds right into the cycle of poverty by teaching kids to always have their hand out for something!"

I am not a fan and have never been. The behaviors are not better, teachers are just scared to write kids up now. If we write too many referrals we get to have a meeting and create a plan for our problem kids, which equals more data and more tracking.

I HATE PBIS!!!
(OK, vent over. This is a vent. Please don't reply with how great it really is, because this is a VENT)


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Old 10-12-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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Daphne, I agree 100%. I don't give tangible incentives in the classroom for that reason. No prize box, no tickets, no paycheck. Learning is the paycheck, and the kids that aren't behaving miss the fun stuff (planting seeds in science, using whiteboards in math, computers for phonics, etc.). I just don't believe in rewarding kids for doing normal, everyday, expected things. You don't get a prize for brushing your teeth - The prize is you don't have cavity pain. You don't get a prize for wiping the countertop - The prize is no ants!

I do pass along the whole-school rewards, and when my class won one recently, I said, "We had the highest __ in the whole school!" intending to pull out the rewards. One little boy piped up, "So what do we get?" Well, those prizes never made it out of my desk. Instead, we talked about all the things you "get" by coming to school: Knowledge. Being with friends. Feeling smart. Playing with things in the classroom. Games at gym. Songs at music.

There's a big difference between "I fulfilled the responsibilities laid out by my job so I earned our contracted amount" and "each time I do something right that somebody sees they give me a prize." One is pay, the other is bribery. Continued bribery ruins work ethic.

Special Ed, of course, is a whole different story because we have to adjust our communication with students who have a more limited understanding.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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We just had a school wide reward of extra recess. I had one girl forge her mother's signature on something and a boy climb bathroom stalls so I told them "something" would happen and I would get back to them. Since we can't take away recess (don't ask) I wanted to keep them in from the extra recess. I couldn't do it since it was a school wide reward for having no referrals. You can't tell me there was NOT ONE STUDENT who shouldn't have been written up.

The social worker (who I love and is a good friend of mine) said the teachers were lazy. No, the message is being sent not to write kids up. Sure enough, PBIS notes said 6 referrals. Um, so how did we earn a school wide reward?

I pay Character Cash and they pay me. It works for me but I have to admit I'm tired of the expense. Next year I'm moving to Class Dojo.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:04 PM
 
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When a student asks, "What do I get?" my response is always a warm, fuzzy feeling in your stomach that you did something good or right. One year I no longer had to repeat this, a couple of my students would say the response before I could even get it out.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:29 PM
 
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We have PBIS this year. I don't really think behavior is a lot different this year from the previous years we've had. We don't hand out things, but if kids do something exceptional we give them "decision dollars." These can be spent at the school store for various things, usually school related items that kids usually need. We do the "clip up and clip down" system that goes with PBIS, but then teachers already had something like that. It helps make behavior more concrete for the kids. Unfortunately, we are not allowed to take away recess. State law prohibits it. We can have the kids walk during recess instead of playing. PBIS hasn't really changed what we are allowed to do with the kids to punish them.


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Daphne333 Daphne333 is offline
 
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just wait
Old 10-12-2013, 02:53 PM
 
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We said that it didn't really change how we deal with the kids at first too. But when the principals start getting pressured to show improvement and create a plan it will come back on the teachers. And classroom incentives is a year 2 expectation. We reward these kids for everything, including sitting up straight.
And it really doesn't change behaviors. The kids can rattle off expectations like robots. But when a teacher isn't around or they think they're not going to get caught, they do the wrong thing anyway.

I remember sitting in the first PBIS meeting and the presenter said, "If a child is throwing a fit and refusing to work. You need to look at yourself and ask how you caused that problem. Her behavior is a reaction to your behavior as the adult." I remember thinking, "Oh, that's what I did wrong when my student laid on the floor and refused to go into the classroom! I asked her and the rest of the class to enter the classroom. I guess I should have given her a choice to stay in the hall or learn something that day."
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:04 PM
 
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"Her behavior is a reaction to your behavior as the adult."

That makes me want to SCREAM. When I get that insinuation from parents, I want to say, "What if it's a reaction to YOUR behavior? What if never hearing 'no' as a full sentence until age 5 is actually what caused this?" Yes, sometimes my actions seem to ignite a child's rage, but I am an AUTHORITY FIGURE, and that child will have to learn to respect that and challenge it appropriately when necessary. The child is *not* my equal and I am *not* in the business of making 25 6-year-olds abundantly happy for every minute of a 6 hour day. Learning to close your mouth and follow directions (when it's not harmful to you or others) is a necessary skill in life: Sure, I'd love to storm into the bank and shove my way to the front, but I've learned to stand in line. I don't get a reward for doing so, and the bank doesn't give me a choice about it or hire an extra teller to run up and help me right away.

These poor kids. Is their behavior in elementary school really their fault? I'm starting to think they are the victims here.
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Totally Agree
Old 10-12-2013, 05:54 PM
 
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Daphne, I completely agree about the kids rattling off expectations. My students can make I-charts and set/state expectations in their sleep, but when it comes down to it, they only follow them when they want to or when they are being directly watched. There is absolutely no intrinsic motivation to do anything - the students seem to want rewards simply for showing up to class. This is my first year teaching in a PBIS school, and I am not a fan. We are not allowed to have clip charts. Luckily, we can use Class Dojo, but it cannot be displayed to the whole class.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:27 PM
 
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All of those positive behavior plans suck because the real world doesn't work that way. It creates more entitlement mentality. I watched a video on youtube about the Wall Street protestors and the one phrase that came out was, "They found out the hard way that the world keeps score.

BTW Daphne, your post is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOO OOOOOMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE.

I believe PBIS would work on the following conditions.

1. Reinforced heavily in Kindergarten. Forget the alphabet and learning. These kids need to stop acting like idiots in Wal-Mart and the grocery stores thinking that's OK in public schools.

2. The administrator is 80-90% involved in it leaving very little for the teachers to do. Usually this is something designed to create the never ending line of lazy administration.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:25 AM
 
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I have never written on ProTeacher and I don't even have an account but I wanted to reply to your message and say this is the BEST thing I've ever read on here. Preschool doesn't prepare kids enough for kindergarten in my state (I taught it for a few summers - trust me, it doesn't) and really kindergarteners need to know how to BEHAVE. If we would spend more time on BEHAVIOR and less cramming developmentally inappropriate skills down their throats I think they'd have a much more successful time.

I'm currently between jobs - moved to a new county recently and I am having a hard time finding a job. Most of the schools that want me are F schools, low SES, and their first bit of news in a job interview is, "We are a PBIS school."

As badly as I need a job I scratch their name off of the list immediately. It doesn't work. The real world doesn't give prizes, and kids need to know that.


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We're producing monsters.
Old 04-27-2018, 10:09 PM
 
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This system is a nightmare and after 6 years of it we are seeing the results in middle school of children who have become legitimate monsters. Profanity, threats, physical intimidation, made up accusations, refusal to work, and all this with a smirk that shows they know nothing will happen to them for these behaviors. It has become a true horror show and after 14 years at this school I'm starting to think about leaving the profession. We've failed these kids and taught them that there is no consequence for being awful and all the parents want to do is blame us. It's obviously not all kids, but I would say it's gone from 10% of the student population to 40%. At a loss for words this year. Have never been treated so poorly by children and felt so unsupported by my district.
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PBIS is killing our school
Old 06-18-2019, 11:46 AM
 
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I am taking a two unit class this summer in which I can conduct research. I am researching PBIS. We are two years in and floundering. I have said more than once this year, "The inmates are running the asylum."
my admin keeps telling me it is because we are at at Level 3 yet! Really??? It gets worse?
Our school has always been like a big family. In fact many of our families are multigenerational students. We haven't had huge problems with racism or fights until PBIS hit. In two years, we have fallen apart. There Are NO CONSEQUENCES for behavior other than a referral for data purposes. The kids are having a ball! Seasoned teachers are ready to walk. Why is this program still so popular? I was shocked to see posts from 2013!
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