Would you feel obligated to compensate a sub if...? - ProTeacher Community


Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      BusyBoard

Would you feel obligated to compensate a sub if...?

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member
Would you feel obligated to compensate a sub if...?
Old 03-26-2017, 12:22 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

I am a 20 year sub who up until now has only posted in the substitute teacher forum, but I did want to get the take of some contracted teachers on this issue.

Substitute teachers are sometimes faced with needing to accept some financial losses when other teachers or administrators make mistakes.

I have lost hundreds of dollars over the last 10 years due to other's errors, but since we have no union to back us up, and no contract, there is nothing we can do about it.

These losses result from accepting and arriving for jobs that do not exist. This happens for one of two reasons, either the teacher or administrator enters the job for the wrong day, or a training gets cancelled and no one remembers to cancel the job in the sub system.

This happens on average about five times a year in my largest district.

We are not allowed to cancel the job ourselves if we learn it does not exist, which would free us to look for something else. We need to hope we can get a hold of the sub coordinator in a timely manner, and then hope another job is available.

The district policy is to pay us only 40% of a standard day if we show up to a non-existing job, which means we lose between $75 and $142 depending on the job.

The latest incident occurred on March 23rd, for a job I had accepted six weeks earlier.

The teacher showed up and said that she is out tomorrow, but not today.

We went to the office to confirm that the teacher had made a mistake and put the job in for the 23rd instead of the 24th.

I was fortunate that the office manager was able to contact the sub coordinator and place me in a job eight miles away that another sub had just cancelled, otherwise I would have lost $75.

I am curious to know whether any contracted teacher would choose to do anything to compensate the sub for their mistake if it costs the sub money.

Obviously this would not be required or expected. It is just one of the drawbacks of having no contract or union, but I was curious to know if any teachers would feel an obligation to give some tangible token of apology.


Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote

SportingKC's Avatar
SportingKC SportingKC is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,834
Senior Member

SportingKC
 
SportingKC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,834
Senior Member

Old 03-26-2017, 12:26 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

No. But then again I am obsessive about checking the dates that I put in for a sub because I'm afraid of that exact thing happening (having a sub the wrong day).
SportingKC is offline   Reply With Quote
anna's Avatar
anna anna is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,841
Senior Member

anna
 
anna's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,841
Senior Member

Old 03-26-2017, 01:01 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

If I made the mistake and knew the sub would lose money I would compensate the sub.If the school system messed up I would not feel obligated to compensate . I would like it if subs did not have the power to cancel 1/2 hour before class begins. This happens in my district and causes lots of problems.
anna is offline   Reply With Quote
GreyhoundGirl's Avatar
GreyhoundGirl GreyhoundGirl is offline
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,417
Senior Member

GreyhoundGirl
 
GreyhoundGirl's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,417
Senior Member

Old 03-26-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

No, because I'm also obsessive about making sure I put in the right date. Also, my building/district would never send a sub home, but rather find an unfilled position for the sub to take. We have positions that gonunfilled daily so there's always a place for a sub to go.
GreyhoundGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
choppie70's Avatar
choppie70 choppie70 is online now
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,977
Senior Member

choppie70
 
choppie70's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,977
Senior Member

Old 03-26-2017, 01:27 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

No, I would not feel I needed to compensate the sub.

Having said that, subbing is not a "job" where I live. All of our subs are either college students on break, parents wanting something to do when their kids are in school/same school hours, retired teachers who sub now and then for a bit of supplemental income or teachers without a job trying to get their foot in the door. We do not have one sub who relies on that money to live.

Also, I think it has happened once in my 12 years teaching that a sub showed up that was not needed. The P let her stay and we used her as an extra set of hands in the special education room which is always understaffed.


choppie70 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Old 03-26-2017, 01:31 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

We are are allowed to cancel very late, but we are blocked from accepting another job if we cancel after 6 PM the night before.

This cost me $100 in August because the administrators forgot to cancel the job, and I could not get a hold of the sub coordinator, so I was sent home with $50 instead of $150.

I agree that the schools should be allowed to just keep us as extra help and pay us the full day.

With hundreds of students, I am sure someone could use an extra hand.

I knew it was bad news when I walked into the classroom and the teacher said " May I help you?".
Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote
AlwaysSummer
 
 
Guest

AlwaysSummer
 
 
Guest

Old 03-26-2017, 03:06 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

No, because it's never my fault. For example, I had coworkers show up late because they thought they couldn't make it and then did. Like say their kid was sick and the babysitter showed up. I have one coworker who does this often. She is very inconsiderate. I had a workshop they pulled me out of. There was a sub, but they did like office work. Honestly, the district should pay you unless it's the teacher.
  Reply With Quote
MissESL MissESL is offline
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,274
Senior Member

MissESL
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,274
Senior Member
Honestly?
Old 03-26-2017, 04:06 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #8

No. Mistakes happen. As a sub, and as a teacher, you roll with the punches.
MissESL is offline   Reply With Quote
dawnmei's Avatar
dawnmei dawnmei is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,354
Senior Member

dawnmei
 
dawnmei's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,354
Senior Member
no
Old 03-26-2017, 04:57 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #9

I would not do this personally. Maybe once a year we have a sub show up at our building for a job that for whatever reason was incorrect. We've always allowed the sub to stay if he/she chooses. What is more often the case is that we line up subs in advance and they cancel the day of, with no more subs available. Has happened 3 times this year in my grade and no one in our building got extra compensation for teaching additional students.
dawnmei is offline   Reply With Quote
linda2671's Avatar
linda2671 linda2671 is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,278
Senior Member

linda2671
 
linda2671's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,278
Senior Member
In our district,
Old 03-26-2017, 05:05 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #10

if a sub comes, they are paid. If the teacher makes a mistake, the sub still gets paid. When I had jury duty, I was told not to put in for a sub until the night before because if they canceled the trial, and I worked after all, the sub would be paid. I know that sometimes, subs are wandering around asking if anyone needs help, because their job was canceled and they are still being paid.


linda2671 is offline   Reply With Quote
sonf
 
 
Guest

sonf
 
 
Guest

Old 03-26-2017, 05:26 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #11

No, I would not (and in 10 years teaching I have never asked for the 'wrong day off' so it is not an issue). I have also never asked a sub to reimburse me for classroom materials that got destroyed or went missing under their watch.
In my school a sub would be reassigned to a different room because we almost always have unfilled absences. This might mean that they signed up to fill in for HS math but get sent to be in self-contained behavior room for the day instead. Most of our subs are retired teachers or have other jobs and just pick up for extra money or to stay active and some I know would be thrilled to get o go home with 40% of the check without having to work.
  Reply With Quote
luvtulearn luvtulearn is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,078
Senior Member

luvtulearn
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,078
Senior Member
I was under the impression. . .
Old 03-26-2017, 05:42 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #12

that all subs are paid to show up regardless of error. At least that is how it is in most districts around where I live. Cancellations are accepted prior to 6:00 pm the night before except on the weekend. . .then its 6:00pm on Friday. We have a difficult time keeping subs as it is. . .if we didn't pay them for mistakes, jury duty, cancelled meetings( IEP's,), cancelled workshops, etc. . .We would be splitting up classes more than we do now.
luvtulearn is offline   Reply With Quote
kahluablast's Avatar
kahluablast kahluablast is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,037
Senior Member

kahluablast
 
kahluablast's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,037
Senior Member

Old 03-26-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #13

I had a sub for a professional dev day last year. I messed up, and when I found out I called and had the school switch me to a sick day. Only seemed fair. I used my unscheduled day very well.

That said, sometimes things happen. Subbing is not a job here, either. It provides some extra money to people in transition, pt employment to moms and retired teachers. Otherwise, I couldn't imagine doing it for 20 years.
kahluablast is offline   Reply With Quote
mrsd5's Avatar
mrsd5 mrsd5 is offline
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,704
Senior Member

mrsd5
 
mrsd5's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,704
Senior Member
My district
Old 03-27-2017, 07:16 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #14

They pay for a half day if they can't use me or if I choose not to go to another building (don't do lower elementary). It's happened twice this year. Annoying, and I am scheduled for one more of these IEP jobs that I am thinking of cancelling so I will be open to accept a position that won't be cancelled. On the other hand, $45 for just showing up isn't bad.
mrsd5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Tessa_Rue's Avatar
Tessa_Rue Tessa_Rue is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 840
Senior Member

Tessa_Rue
 
Tessa_Rue's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 840
Senior Member

Old 03-27-2017, 05:53 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #15

I wouldn't feel obligated, since accidents happen. Of course, we would find something for the sub to do - we've never sent a sub away!! And if we did I am pretty sure we paid them. I know that when I was subbing that if I had a confirmation number and showed up at the school I got paid, even if they ended up not needing me or letting me go early.

And really, in all my years of subbing and teaching, it's been far more likely that a sub didn't show or would cancel a job than a teacher incorrectly puts in a job.
Tessa_Rue is offline   Reply With Quote
kahluablast's Avatar
kahluablast kahluablast is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,037
Senior Member

kahluablast
 
kahluablast's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,037
Senior Member

Old 03-27-2017, 06:14 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #16

I didn't say, but I am pretty sure in my district that the sub would not be paid unless there was another position they could move into. We aren't close enough to other schools to have a chance to place them somewhere else. We also don't have a budget to pay for people we don't need. So, unless the teacher continues to take the day, or by chance there is someone else looking for a sub, the sub is out of luck.

Not fair. Not nice if you are counting on the funds, but the way it is, which is why I say subbing isn't a career here. It isn't even a great part time job, although most people who do it (I did for many years) enjoy the extra money and the low responsibility outside of work hours.
kahluablast is offline   Reply With Quote
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member
luvtulearn...
Old 03-28-2017, 02:37 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #17

This could be one reason this district had 31 unfilled vacancies on March 17 at 8:30 AM.

More fair treatment would generate more acceptances and fewer split classrooms.

The administrators and teachers at the school that I went to on March 23 to replace the job in error were delighted when I walked in the office and when I went to each class to collect the split up students.
Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member
sonf..
Old 03-28-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #18

I can understand the frustration when subs mess things up, but when I knew my negligence cost the teacher money on one occasion a few years ago, I compensated her without being asked.

I read a gingerbread man book to the class, and the teacher called me later that afternoon to tell me that the book disappeared and was nowhere to be found.

I surmise a student had stolen her book under my watch.

I felt responsible and spent $17 to buy her a replacement book.
Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Zia's Avatar
Zia Zia is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Zia
 
Zia's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Old 03-28-2017, 03:41 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #19

It would honestly never occur to me to hand a sub cash from my wallet. I consider paying subs to be an office/district responsibility.
Zia is offline   Reply With Quote
SubMan SubMan is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,178
Senior Member

SubMan
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,178
Senior Member

Old 03-28-2017, 05:54 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #20

A couple of years ago I actually made more money because of a similar situation.

I picked up two half days; middle school in the morning, elementary in the afternoon. Because of the times I had 45 minutes to make a 25 minute trip.

I get to the elementary school, tell the secretary who I am and why I am there. She tells me that job has been canceled. I tell her it is still on my Aesop. She more firmly tells me that job has been canceled. I thank her and leave.

On the way to my car Jobulator goes off with a PM job in a school that is about half an hour away, it starts in 5 minutes. I call the school with the job and tell them I am available but 30 minutes away; no problem, I'm not needed until 1:30.

When this happened the first district paid $80.00/day while the second paid $100.00/day, so I made $10.00 more for the day.

The long-term effect of this is that I avoid this school if at all possible due to the games they play with subs; cancelling jobs at the last minute, switching assignments once you get there, and duty dumping. I am not alone in this, from what I hear other subs avoid this school as well.
SubMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Zia's Avatar
Zia Zia is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Zia
 
Zia's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Old 03-28-2017, 06:41 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #21

Quote:
The long-term effect of this is that I avoid this school if at all possible due to the games they play with subs; cancelling jobs at the last minute, switching assignments once you get there, and duty dumping.
What is duty dumping?
Zia is offline   Reply With Quote
SubMan SubMan is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,178
Senior Member

SubMan
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,178
Senior Member

Old 03-28-2017, 07:00 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #22

Quote:
What is duty dumping?
When a teacher has a duty and tells a substitute that they have it. So the eager to please sub willingly does the duty for the teacher who may be getting paid to do the duty.
SubMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Zia's Avatar
Zia Zia is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Zia
 
Zia's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Old 03-28-2017, 07:13 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #23

Teachers get paid extra for covering recess? Wow. I wish I did! I have an hour of recess a week.

Here, it's just part of the day. If the teacher has recess, the sub has to cover it. When my aide is out and I have recess, the sub covers it.
Zia is offline   Reply With Quote
Sirsubalot Sirsubalot is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member

Sirsubalot
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Full Member
Zia...
Old 03-28-2017, 08:33 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #24

I would never expect cash from a wallet.

Such generosity would truly shock me.

I was thinking more along the lines of a gift certificate or small gift as a form of tangible apology.

I would not expect anything costing anywhere near the lost wages.

But of course this should be a moot point since the district should allow schools to keep us and use us.

A few years ago, I asked a school if they could keep me as an aide for the day when someone goofed.

They said no because I was certificated and aides are classified so I got sent home.
Sirsubalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Zia's Avatar
Zia Zia is offline
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Zia
 
Zia's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,595
Senior Member

Old 03-29-2017, 04:57 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #25

Quote:
A few years ago, I asked a school if they could keep me as an aide for the day when someone goofed.

They said no because I was certificated and aides are classified so I got sent home.
I think we have the same rule: teacher subs can only sub for teachers, aide subs can only sub for aides. It really doesn't make sense to me.

What I meant was, when my aide is out and there's an aide sub in for her, that sub covers my duties so I can prep.

It's an imperfect system for sure.
Zia is offline   Reply With Quote
LibbyRWindsor's Avatar
LibbyRWindsor LibbyRWindsor is offline
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 178
Full Member

LibbyRWindsor
 
LibbyRWindsor's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 178
Full Member
No.
Old 03-30-2017, 03:54 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #26

I would not compensate the substitute teacher in any way. While I respect their roles, expertise and time, I do not feel that it is the responsibility of any teacher to reach into their own pockets to make up for such situations. If it were my mistake (and, as far as this type of situation goes, I should add that that has never happened), I would surely apologize but that would be the end of it. I don't say that to be harsh but I honestly feel that any money spent should be from the district or the school itself (depending on structure).
LibbyRWindsor is offline   Reply With Quote
teabreak teabreak is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,333
Senior Member

teabreak
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,333
Senior Member
I guess
Old 03-30-2017, 03:10 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #27

I guess I wouldn't feel obligated to be very honest. Mistakes happen. Should the sub feel obligated to compensate me when they don't follow my lesson plans or say they are going to show and don't?

Yes, it is a professional courtesy to let the sub manager know that the vacancy is no longer occurring but once I let the sub system know, it is out of my hands.

As for the teacher putting in the wrong day, it seems as if it was an honest mistake. I may see things differently if it were malicious.

Choosing to be a sub as a career then you make the same choice to not have the contract or union. I do admire subs though. Not sure I would want to walk into a different classroom of different kids every day.
teabreak is offline   Reply With Quote
seenthelight seenthelight is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 472
Senior Member

seenthelight
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 472
Senior Member

Old 03-30-2017, 06:03 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #28

I would not feel obligated nor would I do it. If something went wrong, fixing it is way above my pay grade.
seenthelight is offline   Reply With Quote
Tulips's Avatar
Tulips Tulips is offline
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,210
Senior Member

Tulips
 
Tulips's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,210
Senior Member
Sirsubsalot
Old 04-05-2017, 10:19 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #29

If a sub shows up at a job in good faith, but there was a mistake or cancellation or whatever, the first thing is to try to find another job for them. If that doesn't happen, then they're paid anyway. At least that's my understanding.
We once had a sub who showed up for a cancelled conference, but she didn't know she was supposed to be paid, just accepted being sent away. I pulled her aside to tell her to check her right, because I am 99% sure that you're supposed to be paid if you showed up for a job.

Sorry that this is a problem for you.
Tulips is offline   Reply With Quote
Taylor456
 
 
Guest

Taylor456
 
 
Guest
Response to Sub Payment
Old 04-06-2017, 05:29 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #30

I agree that in most cases you should not have to compensate the sub. If the office makes a mistake, it should be on them. Similarly, if you cancel before the cut off time, you should not be responsible. However, I believe if you put the wrong day and do not cancel and the sub has to show up, it is your responsibility.
  Reply With Quote
whatever's Avatar
whatever whatever is online now
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,997
Senior Member

whatever
 
whatever's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,997
Senior Member
Not me either.
Old 04-07-2017, 09:16 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #31

I understand that you didn't get a full day's pay but you got $50 for a drive across town--that is not too shabby in itself.

I have never put in a wrong date so far so my feelings might change should that happen.
whatever is online now   Reply With Quote
knit1purl2 knit1purl2 is offline
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 492
Senior Member

knit1purl2
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 492
Senior Member
I had a sub show up
Old 04-08-2017, 06:57 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #32

Sub was there for me, but it wasn't me who entered the absence in the sub system. I assured her, that she would be paid. I sent her back to the office to find work.
knit1purl2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
BusyBoard
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:49 AM.

Copyright © 2017 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net