Anyone using Fred Jones Teaching Tools ? - ProTeacher Community


Home Join Now Search My Favorites
Help


      Classroom Management

Anyone using Fred Jones Teaching Tools ?

>

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Rusty's Mom Rusty's Mom is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Full Member

Rusty's Mom
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Full Member
Anyone using Fred Jones Teaching Tools ?
Old 06-19-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #1

Hello,
Today is my first day of summer. . Finished last work day last Friday.

Just wondering about different class management programs and how you REALLY feel about them.

Please be candid and share about Fred Jones and PAT, does it work? Do you like it?

Thank you in advance 😀


Rusty's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote

Fenwick Fenwick is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Full Member

Fenwick
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Full Member

Old 06-19-2017, 09:36 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #2

Quote:
...Just wondering about different class management programs and how you REALLY feel about them.

Please be candid and share about Fred Jones and PAT, does it work? Do you like it? ...
Does it work? Yes and no. It works quite well in the hands of someone who uses it correctly and will fail (like any skill) in the hands of someone using it incorrectly. It took me four tries to sort of get PAT up and running and I had been to three Jones' seminars (three-day workshops) and read Tools plus his two first works, Positive Classroom Discipline and Positive Classroom Instruction.

Using PAT I was able to reduce transition of entering room and being on task from 2 min 56 sec to 17 seconds. Transitions like moving into groups, passing papers, clean up etc. were reduced from minutes to seconds. In a typical day I saved about 25 minutes for added instruction. In a week it amounted to an extra period or more. PAT with Responsibility Training and Omission training, two students who had history of never finishing homework began turning it on time. My cost to ensure they completed homework? Zero. The class made sure they finished homework.

Teachers worry they will lose instructional minutes if they play a "game". Nothing could be farther from the truth. The game or Preferred Activity is often a lesson you would teach anyway and, if not, it is always learning related in some way. For the price of making learning fun and something students will work for you save instructional minutes not lose them. The clerical work for the teacher is making a tally chart on the board to write +minutes and -minutes. You will also need a stopwatch or some form of timer.

Caution! PAT can be addictive and before you know it you may find yourself using it for discipline (I did). It is not a discipline intervention. You do not use it to stop two students from talking. That's done with Limit Setting. PAT is a "hustle" technique. It gets kids to follow directions the first time you ask and not hang out at the pencil sharpener. It can be used to eliminate almost all requests to use the restroom.
Fenwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Mshope's Avatar
Mshope Mshope is offline
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,974
Senior Member

Mshope
 
Mshope's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,974
Senior Member
Pat
Old 06-21-2017, 07:57 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #3

I read the Fred Jones book long ago. Since I have six classes a day, I really felt like I didn't have time to give any extra time. I have 300 minutes a week for language arts. However, we often have random assemblies, events, or things where we miss class time.

I might take another look at it because I think my students would love to have extra time on their phones or listening to music with a friend on a Friday. The curriculum I am forced to use is very boring and I have noticed kids constantly wanting to use the bathroom, get a drink, or go to the nurse just to get out of class. I really can't even send them out of the class as a consequence because not that is a reward.
Mshope is offline   Reply With Quote
Rusty's Mom Rusty's Mom is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Full Member

Rusty's Mom
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Full Member
Thank you 😀
Old 06-21-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #4

I appreciate your help and opinions. I am looking at different books/programs for next year. I am at a school with PBIS and am hoping to get away from the move your clip chart system.
Rusty's Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
maestradeb maestradeb is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 12
New Member

maestradeb
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 12
New Member

Old 07-08-2017, 09:26 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #5

I've seen teachers use the PAT successfully. I am alarmed at much of Jones' advice, which includes things like "Stand over the child until he complies", which is NOT the way to deal with children. Getting in their space to show them who's boss is likely to make any child annoyed, but think of a child who has been abused or traumatized in some way, to suddenly have this adult looming over them. When I got to that section, I tuned the rest of Jones out.


maestradeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Fenwick Fenwick is offline
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Full Member

Fenwick
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Full Member

Old 07-09-2017, 02:10 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #6

Quote:
...I am alarmed at much of Jones' advice, which includes things like "Stand over the child until he complies", which is NOT the way to deal with children. Getting in their space to show them who's boss is likely to make any child annoyed, but think of a child who has been abused or traumatized in some way, to suddenly have this adult looming over them. When I got to that section, I tuned the rest of Jones out. ...
This is the difference between "reading about" Limit Setting and being "trained" in Limit Setting. During Jones' three-day seminar-workshop teachers get on their feet and practice Limit Setting (body language) and dealing with the "unexpected" like a student you noted. After our group returned from Jones' seminar we practiced once a week after school for half a year. It was at these "practices" we were able to fine-tune body language and walk through classroom situations each teacher brought to the meetings to share.

In no way was anyone trained to "Stand over the child until he complies". This gives the impression of a teacher using his/her body to signal anger and upset. This is more aligned with a teacher who is not trained. And like any skill not done correctly, it has a nasty habit of failing. You are trained to "relax" and look "bored" as if you have seen this behavior a 1000 times. Going to "palms", perhaps what you are referring, is used to separate two students next to each other talking. Again, it's not a "looming over" gesture, rather a "ho-hum".

With this being said, no technique comes with a guarantee. There's always a chance the student may have an ax to grind with adult authority - physical abuse etc. In this case you abort body language. How do you know? It's a gamble. Often the student's body language is key. This follows another Jones' technique: "When in doubt, do nothing." In ten years of using Limit Setting I had to use "palms" once and, fortunately, never had a traumatized student. I did help another teacher who had a student crawl under his desk and cower - arms protecting his head - refusing to come out. This student, we found out later, was abused by Dad. What did I do? I went on to the playground (it was recess) and got three of his buddies to come to the room. They talked him out.
Fenwick is offline   Reply With Quote
maestradeb maestradeb is offline
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 12
New Member

maestradeb
 
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 12
New Member

Old 07-13-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #7

Every single paragraph you wrote sends chills up my spine. It's alarming that anyone thinks that is an appropriate way to treat children. I'm legitimately horrified that there are teachers who believe it's acceptable practice to move into a student's space. We'll have to agree to disagree here.
maestradeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Fenwick
Old 07-15-2017, 09:25 PM
This message has been deleted by Fenwick.

Join the conversation! Post as a guest or become a member today. New members welcome!

Reply

 

>
Classroom Management
Thread Tools




Sign Up Now

Sign Up FREE | ProTeacher Help | BusyBoard

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:21 AM.

Copyright © 2017 ProTeacher®
For individual use only. Do not copy, reproduce or transmit.
source: www.proteacher.net