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Babying the SPED kids
Old 11-08-2017, 06:43 PM
 
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I'm a SPED teacher and I am so done with this. I firmly believe that children, even those with disabilities, KNOW when there is little to no expectation of them and will act accordingly. Now this doesn't mean that we always hold a child with oppositional defiance to the same expectation as a GATE student. That would be comparing apples to oranges. But this whole blaming the disability for all behaviors/having little to no expectation of SPED kids has got to stop!!!!


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Totally Agree
Old 11-08-2017, 06:53 PM
 
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It's horrible to have no expectations or consequences for kids. It really does seem to be a trend to expect almost nothing out of kids. With the 'flexible seating' now comes half a class that can't sit down. I've never seen this in 30 years. Suddenly, somebody who wanted to sell new classroom furniture came up with the idea kids can't sit. Voila, kids can't sit.

Either there is a horrible trend gone wrong or something has caused a fourth of children to have significant problems. I don't know?
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:25 PM
 
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And the behaviors hear kids are allowed to get away with principals (at least mine) wonít discipline kids with IEPís is insane. I canít tell you how many violent kids we have who are allowed to be violent because they have an IEP. Itís scary.

The hand holding, spoon feeding and learned helplessness doesnít do anyone any good.
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blaming the disability
Old 11-08-2017, 07:28 PM
 
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I see this a lot with ADHD! If a kid has the hyperactive/impulsive type or the combined type any behavior they exhibit is blamed on their ADHD. Calling out an answer in class is impulsive. Repeatedly calling someone a dirty c**t is not.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:35 PM
 
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Perfect example! That's exactly what I'm talking about.


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Yes
Old 11-08-2017, 08:08 PM
 
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I'm of the opinion that there's an awful lot of infantilization going on. It's not restricted to students who access SPED services, of course, but they are often the canary in the coal mine.

We treat students, generally speaking, as though they are much younger than they actually are. Parents seem to expect teachers to check their notebooks, write in their planners for them, and so on. I'm amazed by the number of parents who seem to expect elementary-style accommodations for high school-aged students. It's remarkable.

I can't be the only one who thinks we're doing students a grave disservice to treat them like they are ten years younger than they really are or to assume that they are delicate china dolls who will shatter if they are treated in an age-appropriate manner. I've known high schoolers who have learning exceptionalities and who hold down part-time jobs and have driver's licenses, but who are called "Sweetie" and "Darling" and "Honey" by SPED teachers (and keep in mind I am SPED certified, though I'm not currently in that role) who smooth their collars and make sure they have their lunch bags and organize their notebooks for them. I think, if they can work at Wendy's or the gas station on Saturdays, they can surely figure out how to put three holes in their papers and put them in the binder properly and remember to put on their coats before they go outside.

I've been told some high school students CANNOT perform certain tasks (it says so right in their IEPs, don't you know...) only to find out they perform similar (and sometimes more complex) tasks at their part-time jobs. If a kid is incapable of writing his homework in his agenda, how is he able to maintain his own time sheet as his weekend workplace? If a kid is incapable of doing math without a computer, a cheat sheet, time-and-a-half, and so on, how is he able to reconcile the register at 7/11 on Saturday night and complete the inventory without assistance and so on? If a kid has ODD and can't be held responsible for mouthing off at a teacher, how is he able to keep his temper in check when dealing with difficult customers and a nagging manager at his fast food job?
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Old 11-09-2017, 02:27 AM
 
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I've experienced, with these sort of students, there's usually some outside force enforcing it. Whether it be parents, the class aide, or if they have a one to one. Many one to ones, and sometimes classroom aides, baby these students because they know if the child can function they are out of a job. Honestly, some of them are lazy. I've seen many sped students being pacified because it's easier to let them do what they want than to challenge them to learn and grow.
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I hear you!
Old 11-09-2017, 05:34 AM
 
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One of my own children had significant special needs and received a wide variety of special education mods/accoms/etc. as she was growing up. She is a fully-functioning adult now and I feel like I can take some credit for that. I let her know from a relatively young age that she had disabilities and I let her know that her behavior was often inappropriate. I didn't fight the school district but worked with them.
Because of my personal experience, it is so hard for me when I see parents with expectations that I believe will harm their child in the long term. Some people seem to want to make their child disabled when no disability exists, or to make their child more disabled when the child is experiencing success. It's so frustrating for me! I want to scream "Hey, your kid is doing well! Don't limit them!" The very sad reality is that some parents actually don't want to hear that. Some of them are just so tied up in their own ideas that even suggesting that their child is doing well or needs less services is proof to them that you aren't supportive enough of their child and you probably can't be trusted to follow the IEP.
One child was doing great for me last year until he had a few relatively minor (in hindsight) behaviors. I talked to mom and the child together and her comments - in front of the child! - led to him becoming a major disruptive influence for the remainder of the school year. I still get aggravated just thinking about it.
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agree
Old 11-09-2017, 05:37 AM
 
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I agree completely...however, I want to point out that in some cases, it isn't admin who is allowing behaviors to continue. It is state law. I used to say that same things about why kids weren't punished. Then DH became a HS admin. In our state, the law basically says that a student with an IEP (for any reason) can be suspended only 10 days before the school is responsible for providing (paying for) homebound or alternate education. If a student with a disability (for any reason) brings a weapon to school, a court hearing must be held to determine if the "crime" was a result of the disability. In many cases, the courts lean in favor of the student. So, unfortunately, in many cases admin has their hands tied just as much as we do. They want some of these kids punished more and even gone too. However, budgets are limited and most corporations can't afford to provide homebound or alternate education for everyone who really needs it.

As a teacher, though, it can be incredibly frustrating. Even getting kids to qualify for SPED when they obviously need it can be an uphill climb.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:48 AM
 
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That's not totally true about the 10 day thing. Anything after 10 days you need to do a manifestation determination to determine if the behavior was a result of the disability. If it is, then things get dicey. If it isn't, then the suspension holds. I had a kid in a different district who hit 10 days quickly. My admin didn't stop suspending, we just held a TON of MDR's. Mom thought he just wouldn't be punished. No, we were just dragging her down to school once a week for an MDR. She wasn't happy. Tough. SBS (Spoiled Brat Syndrome) isn't an identified disability.


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Old 11-09-2017, 07:16 AM
 
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I guess my point is that most schools are afraid they will lose the MD and be on the hook for covering the cost of alternate education.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:17 AM
 
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Absolutely, special education students can and should have appropriate expectations set and consequences enforced, but they really do have to be tailored to the disability and where the student is at. The 10 day suspension and further MDR is important. A child in school isn't learning. Sometimes that child is school is making it unsafe for other or curtailing their learning. Doing the same thing over and over doesn't work. That is the point of these meetings. If the disability impacts why the student is acting out or why the student isn't learning from the consequence, something has to be done differently whether it be different placement or different services. Otherwise, we are just throwing a student away and making it a societal problem for however long the student lives.

This 10 day suspension limit before a meeting must be held came about because students with disabilities were being suspended routinely without them getting appropriate help. The law doesn't specify when the suspension is allowable which means, each school sets their rules and each teacher has his or her "suspendable and reportable" behaviors. That means in some schools a child might have a physical altercation before suspension and another school may have an impulsive ADHD student who calls out and is seen as defiant (heck, in one state these students were being sent to jail because the judge was getting a kick back in the private juvenile detention center).

It is all a balance which I agree is off kilter. I agree that students need to be more self sufficient and aware of proper behaviors, but I don't think it is an easy fix, nor do I think this is just a special education issue as Angelo pointed out.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:33 AM
 
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I agree totally. Services and support is why too many IEPs aren't sufficient to address the needs of the students. Instead of providing proper services early on they skim and make the problem larger.
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OMG...I love this comment
Old 11-09-2017, 11:01 AM
 
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With the 'flexible seating' now comes half a class that can't sit down. I've never seen this in 30 years. Suddenly, somebody who wanted to sell new classroom furniture came up with the idea kids can't sit. Voila, kids can't sit.

Your read my mind, Trunch. I was over the flexible seating bandwagon the first time I heard about it.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:01 PM
 
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You've hit one of my pet peeves - having a disability does not give you the right to be disrespectful, injure someone or break the law. By enabling these behaviors we are setting them (and their parents) up for a really rude awakening when they graduate. When you are out in public behaving the same way you do in school the police will be called, and they are going to deal with you first and worry about a "label" later.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:20 PM
 
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Then they need to be taught to identify their triggers and learn how to respond appropriately. Suspending a student doesn't fix the problem, especially when they struggle with impulsivity or struggle with cause/effect. That is why many children with disabilities fail to learn from consequences. They most need other help as a substitute or as a supplement to the consequences. They rarely get that needed help.
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Sped kids
Old 11-09-2017, 05:36 PM
 
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I am doing a long term sub job in my old building/classroom. Three of the students are former students of mine from before I retired. The one child is "incorrigible", thanks to mom's babying him. He is moderately ID and physically impaired. He uses a wheelchair for mobility and has some intelligible speech. He could be so much farther along physically and academically if mom didn't excuse his behaviors. He is close to being kicked off of the bus because he takes his wheelchair brakes off. Mom said she'd sue the school district if the driver kicks him off because he is "special". In school he cannot keep him hands to himself. We have a block we use under one tire to keep him from moving away from the table. He has the attention span of a hyperactive gnat. There is no discipline at home. I caught the wrath of his mother when I was his teacher for *gasp* expecting him to keep his mouth shut when I was trying to teach. I am lucky to be in a school where the principal does hold the special ed students, all of them and/or their parents, accountable for their behaviors at school. Some do have behaviors that are a part of their eligibility, but they also have behavior programs to document behaviors and there is a specific plan to follow.
Kathy
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Inmates running the Aslyum
Old 11-09-2017, 08:39 PM
 
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The last place I taught was at truly was a place where the inmates were running the asylum. There were no consequences. I am not going into detail because it would take pages.

Some of the kids with IEPs throw it in your face - they tell you you can't do anything because they have an IEP. I have seen more than one in a state of shock when they are outside the school system and there are consequences. One of them even told the arresting officer that they could not do anything to them because they have an IEP.
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I wish you were our SPED teacher
Old 11-12-2017, 03:18 PM
 
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Ours is like you describe. She has very low expectations. I have had sped kids do way more than she ever expected, but if any of it was to cause a problem, I'd be told to cut their assignments in half or let them color. 1 kid actually laughed and bragged that now she only had half of the work since she is in sped. ( She is way more capable than what is expected of her.) Plus, the behavior issue is another can of worms. I really do not understand it how we are supposed to accept certain behaviors as OK when they are not. I think it is more to do w/ the school system that will not or cannot do anything to kids because of their "disability" no matter how minor the disability might be. We just had a conversation on why a kid who is extremely violent is allowed to stay in the classroom. ( Not mine this yr and thankful for that!) We came to the conclusion that it must be about money. There is an alternative school, but I have never seen an elementary student sent. I can't EVEN imagine what they'd have to do to get sent there.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:19 AM
 
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Even if a manifestation determination is held and the suspension is upheld it is still the duty of the district to provide services during that suspension. That typically means home instruction in our district. You can't just suspend a kid and not work on goals and objectives of the IEP during that time.
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