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Thoughts on Fountas/Pinnell and Saxon Phonics
Old 06-23-2018, 06:15 PM
 
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Any thoughts on Fountas/Pinnell and Saxon Phonics will be greatly appreciated! They both look like great reading programs but I am curious to see what other's thoughts are on the phonics portion for each program.
Thanks!


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F&p!
Old 06-24-2018, 04:41 PM
 
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I really enjoy the F&P Continuum for guided reading. We use Wilson Fundations for phonics instruction.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:18 PM
 
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Fountas and Pinnell donít know phonics. Their phonics program is terrible since they are whole language advocates. It is really time for them to stop having so much influence in education. How long have they been around and have no supporting research for their nonsense!
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:41 PM
 
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Thank you so much for your response! Just curious, why does your school use Wilson Fundations for phonics instruction and not F&P??
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Hmmm
Old 06-29-2018, 04:42 PM
 
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I really donít know. It was a decision made by our literacy team.


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Saxon
Old 06-30-2018, 08:31 AM
 
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I have used Saxon Phonics for several years. I stopped two years ago as my school adopted Wonders for Reading but its Phonics was so lame I had to go back to Saxon. I pick and choose what to use, I don't follow it precisely, but I can see a big difference from the year I did not use it. Plus I can see how advanced the spelling is compared to other curriculum. It might not be "the in thing" right now, but as a 12 year veteran in 1st grade, I can say I have seen great success with Saxon Phonics.
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:06 PM
 
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Thank you so much for responding! Yes, I was looking at the program and I am not really seeing any phonics instruction. Maybe Iím overlooking it, but I have also been working with the LLI Kits at my school and I am not seeing much phonic instruction there either. Iím just wondering why this program is so popular if it doesnít include phonics instruction?
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:13 PM
 
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Thank you for your response! I am using the LLI kits at school right now and I am not seeing much phonics instruction. I havenít been teaching very long, but I did go to Grad school to get my Masters to be a Reading Specialist so I have been trained that phonics needs to be taught explicitly. Some of the othe teachers were talking about the Saxon Phonics program and how they coded the vowels and words, which is what I was taught to do in grad school. Also how to teach the 6 different syllables but I donít see this anywhere in F&P. However, maybe I am overlooking this but I feel like explicitly teaching phonics is crucial which is why I am wondering why are so many schools leaning toward F&P??
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?????
Old 07-01-2018, 02:05 PM
 
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Hard to know why F&P are put on a pedestal. Their phonics program is woefully inadequate. They come from the whole language and reading recovery eras. They subscribe to failed, ineffective practices. Many teachers donít know any better. Teachers still teach the 3 curing system despite all the science and research against this instruction.
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Old 07-01-2018, 04:53 PM
 
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LLI is a reading intervention program and while it includes some phonics within a lesson itís primary focus seems to focus more upon learning decoding.


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F &P and Words Their Way
Old 07-01-2018, 06:45 PM
 
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F&P does have quite a bit of research to back it. Unlike other programs the research is independent. Saxon phonics is backed by research done by the company that sells it... hmmm, not very unbiased.

Words Their Way also has a large amount of respected research.

The school my children attended used Saxon phonics. It wasnít a good fit with my kids. My daughters were ďnatural readers and writersĒ and Saxon phonics was uneccasary and kind of slowed them down and took the focus off the meaning. My son has dyslexia and Saxon really just muddled the process of reading. The longer he looks at print the more his ďwords float off the pageĒ. So analyzing a word, letter by letter is disastrous for him. Once we figured out he had dyslexia and took the focus off phonics and placed in on meaning he was able to read at grade level.

Like any program it probably works for some kids. I would not choose to use it if given the choice.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:50 PM
 
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Sorry F&P has no research to back it. Check into it.
Guided reading - minimal research that it is beneficial up to 1st grade, not beyond.
Multi-cuing systems - poor readers use context and syntax.

They have promoted practices for years that have failed students. LLI is a prepackaged Guided Reading program and is garbage.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:11 PM
 
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You clearly have your mind made up. We will have to agree to disagree. As a former RR teacher, I keep up with current research and have read many articles to support guided reading. I have also experienced great success with my first graders using guided reading and workshop method.
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More than 40 years of experience
Old 07-06-2018, 11:08 AM
 
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A good teacher and not a program has a good balance of phonics and guided reading . You must work hand in hand . I have dealt with guided reading with Reading Recovery and The Fountas- Pinnell. I used simple phonics .... call it the stone age version with clues and tricks of my own along with the guided reading . I know nowadays there has to be a $$$$ program. I subbed for 6 weeks in first grade last year and went exactly with the written script. The kids didnít understand nor retain the ALL the many rules of Saxon . I explained my Stone Age way and by ď GeorgeĒ they got it and remembered it . I am not disrespecting Saxon but just stating always put your personal spin on things . P.S. I was /am a Reading Specialist.
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You are all correct!
Old 07-21-2018, 05:58 PM
 
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I have read all of the opinions on this page with interest. In my experience, some kiddos do very well with explicit phonics instruction, in terms of decoding, but they are often not attending to meaning. Other children do well with leveled texts that focus more on sight words and making meaning, and less on phonics. However, it was not until our team combined both methods, and taught the CHILD, rather than the CURRICULUM, that our kids shot up in reading ability and enjoyment. I use guided reading as my opportunity to teach a small group the way it needs to be taught: sometimes totally phonics-based, other times whole language-based, most often a healthy mix of the two.
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Saxon phonics
Old 09-23-2018, 03:13 PM
 
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I have taught Saxon phonics for 20 years and it works. I use it in conjunction with with the reading literature from our reading adoption, SRA Imagine It.
Explicit phonics is a necessity.
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Piggy Backing Question
Old 11-03-2018, 08:18 PM
 
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So I am new to Saxon Phonics.
It is a very explicit program. Do you have any resources or leads to help me with the instructional aspect or lesson plan format?
My district and campus have adopted it; new to the district-not to teaching 15-16 year teaching vet. I'm a little overwhelmed with it and not really impressed so far...I teach first/second graders....any help appreciated. (We also use Neuhaus for our RTI babies). I was trained in Neauhaus this Summer, but NO ONE at my campus has received EXPLICIT Saxon training......kind of muddled. Yes, I can read through and teach the scripted lessons, just looking to improve my own understanding and pedagodial skill set.

TIA for all of your consideration, patience and efforts.

Cj
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:32 PM
 
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Hi!
So I haven't really worked a whole lot with Saxon, but I did hear there is a lot of coding with the words. I am all for coding, however I don't want to overwhelm the kids. I only teach them to code the short and long vowels of words.

Sorry, I know this may not be much help but I found that if the kids understand the vowel sounds (which I found the coding helps) then they can most of the time sound out the word.
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