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They Love Idiots
Old 07-07-2018, 08:33 AM
 
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I have come to the conclusion that female principals love idiots. If you are well educated, have classroom experience, are creative, and good at what you do, you will be rejected. Time and time again I have seen bimbos with no experience who talk baby talk to students and never do anything constructive in their classroom hired asap. Apparently in order to be hired (at least where I live) you have to dumb yourself down and giggle every three seconds. Ridiculous.


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Old 07-07-2018, 09:17 AM
 
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Not just female principals. I think the majority of principals like teachers who are young and moldable. Only the truly great, solid principals (and they are few and far between) respect age and experience.

I feel like it has to do with self-confidence.

Perhaps itís just my experience. Will all 15 of my principals.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:39 AM
 
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I wanted a transfer out of my school SO much but I was really afraid my 18 years of experience would hurt me. How said is that? I still didn't get a call until summer, but I did get the job. When I walked out of my interview there was a young blond probably 22 waiting to go in next. I immediately thought well sh$$.

So sad it's like this. Luckily I guess my new principal and team value knowledge and experience. The lady who was on my interview team from 5th grade looked older than I am. I'm only 41 and both times I've looked for jobs after my 20s I've not gotten that many calls and I have a proven record of success.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:46 AM
 
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As someone who is young and still moldable
I dislike that.
I would prefer to have an admin that can help me grown and support me.
I want to be surrounded by veteran teachers that understand how it is in a classroom.
I learned so much by watching my coworkers who had been around for 11 years than I did when an Admin came in and 'modeled' a lesson.
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Mediocrity
Old 07-07-2018, 10:40 AM
 
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I'm finding because of the principal shortage, they are taking what they can get- meaning the best hire was hired six months ago. One of the worst traits of a leader is insecurity, and that's what is happening to you.
Your P needs to be smarter than everyone else.
Dumbing down- oh boy, yes yes and YES! Us women still have a long way to go- we don't need men to get in the way of our success because we do it to each other.
We spend so much time feeling "less-than" and comparing ourselves to others that no one gets ahead. We aren't allowed to be "too" anything. intelligent, pretty, kind. It makes me sad.
I've had to play dumb from time to time, such a waste of life and energy. That's why I'm moving on. Being afraid of being "less than wastes" my time and I'm getting too old to care about that crap anymore.


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I have found that it doesn't matter
Old 07-07-2018, 11:10 AM
 
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whether the P ins male or female some of them just have bad judgement as to who are the best teachers and who are not.

The above post takes about the P shortage. Where I work the problem now is that Ps and Supervisors and other administrators get tenure. Superintendents can not, so there is no job security for them. We have found that very few applicants respond to the quest for a Superintendent. They seem to want a secure job with good pay, than a job with no security and better pay.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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What does being female have to do with who they like? I've worked for good and bad male and female principals. Making a judgment based on gender is unfair.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:39 PM
 
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I have worked for a fantastic female principal- a veteran who had 25 years of admin experience. She had nothing to prove to anyone and was proud of maintains the school's excellent reputation in the community. So when it came to hiring, she actively sought out the best candidate for the job.

I don't necessarily agree that it is a gender issue. I believe that it is an experience and confidence issue. My first year at my current school, I said something about observing me. My princ said that he hires the best and trusts us to do our jobs and that he tends to leave new hires alone so they can learn the ropes without the admin watching. I love him!
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Not to paint with too broad of a brush
Old 07-07-2018, 01:37 PM
 
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But I cringe when I see my school has hired young a teacher. I have no problem with them personally (in fact, they're fun to have around on a personal level), but they almost always think they know everything about real-world teaching, their curriculum consists mostly of fluff, and they usually try to be friends with kids. Certainly not all I've seen are like that, and they usually adjust in time. It just bothers me that some principals actually WANT teachers like that, regardless of their age (probably because they know it'll lead to fewer battles with parents).

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Old 07-07-2018, 02:03 PM
 
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My old principal was one of these - she loved new hires straight out of university, and then proceeded to make them gods of teaching. Most became insufferable. Once they had a few years experience under their belt. she got rid of them and replaced them with the latest model. Those she was stuck with (older teachers with permanency) she mistreated and abused.

I got a transfer at the end of last year to a smaller school. Turns out he CHOSE me because i'm older, experienced and he's sick of getting newbies from uni who actually have no idea. And who won't stay in our isolated district. He wanted somebody older (definitely me) and established in the area (all my family is here) and who would stick with the school long-term.

I am loving the change. The youngest class teacher he has is 27, I'm the oldest (turned 59 on Friday) and we make a great team. I'll be here until they carry me out, I think.


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Yes!!
Old 07-07-2018, 03:36 PM
 
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I could not agree more with this! I am beyond sick of how these principals only want to hire the "little girls" and truly believe they are master teachers even though they just finished college. If I had known that teaching was only for the very new and young twenty somethings I never would have wasted my time and money becoming a teacher. Since I am an older teacher I have been screwed over by every school and know that the minute I see young supervisors and principals it's game over and I don't stand a chance of getting hired.

Unfortunately, a few months ago, I was Fired..not non-renewed but Fired because I was stuck working with a bunch of nasty young mean girls who refused to work with me and I was accused of being the blame. The nasty young Witch of a supervisor and the egomaniac narcissist of a principal (male) hated me but wanted to keep the young twenty five year old nitwit student teacher....she couldn't even spell and didn't even know the subject matter...but I was fired so they could keep that %@*ing witch.. I know that if I was working with men and had a decent male supervisor who appreciated my knowledge and hard work I would still have a job.

Since this is a vent page..here it goes: Since I started teaching, I am have become a woman who really really hates other other women - especially the young ones. I HATE women principals, supervisors and especially co-teachers..they are evil and hateful. They are awful with their cliques, drama and gossip. If I am ever offered another job and have to work with other women - young or older - I won't take the job after what I have been through. I only want to work with men and only want male superiors...I hate women and don't trust them.

When I have gone on interviews in the past, the minute I see the principal and or supervisor is younger than I and especially is a woman, I know I won't get hired. I even cancelled one interview because I found out the principal was only 31 years old and looked like a member of the Jersey Shore TV show! I knew he would hire a young bimbo so I cancelled the interview.

If I had known that my age was going to prevent me from getting a job and keeping a job I never would have wasted my life and money becoming a teacher..so here I am very middle-aged and unemployed for the rest of my life. Does my attitude suck? You bet it does and if you have been through the hell I have been through over the past five years, yours would too.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:44 PM
 
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There needs to be balance on the staff. If you're complaining that young people are being hired, you are no better than those who wouldn't hire someone who is experienced. To be experienced you have the be new at some point. I'm no longer the newest teacher, but I definitely do not consider myself a veteran - especially because I'm only going into year 2 in my current building.

One of our best teachers in the building this year was finishing year 2. Our absolutely worst teacher (undeniably) was the oldest teacher in the building. Kids learned nothing in her class, and she had NO classroom management.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:24 PM
 
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I have had the opposite experience. The female teachers I've worked for have been much more demanding and want experience and are really no-nonsense. I've worked for male principals who are much more variable on what they want.

In any case, sorry it's feeling like that around where you work. That really sucks
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The more I read this thread...
Old 07-07-2018, 04:35 PM
 
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the more I think about how schools do not need toxicity. If you have such negative opinions of your coworkers, you do not need to be in that environment. Some of you are depending on stereotypes to talk about young/new teachers. Think about the stereotypes associated with old/experienced teachers: inflexible, technologically-incompetent, non-collaborative... If you can depend on stereotypes for others, think about the ones tied to yourself.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Since I started teaching, I am have become a woman who really really hates other other women - especially the young ones. I HATE women principals, supervisors and especially co-teachers..they are evil and hateful. They are awful with their cliques, drama and gossip. If I am ever offered another job and have to work with other women - young or older - I won't take the job after what I have been through. I only want to work with men and only want male superiors...I hate women and don't trust them.

Wow. You have been badly hurt. I am so sorry. Not all women are awful, I promise.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:56 PM
 
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It's the principals who have stereotyped the teachers. I started out as a new and older teacher. Just because someone is older doesn't mean they have years of experience in teaching. In my situation I was Not the toxic one and the teachers who were not my co-teachers even supported me and knew that I wasn't the problem. The students would complain that the young/new teachers didn't teach and just read from a powerpoint. I was the one who had to re-teach and explain the material to the students because the new ones just gave them a presentation and expected them to understand it. It doesn't always work that way - a sign of a good teacher is to help the students understand and retain the subject matter..not how cute and pinterest-like your google docs/powerpoint presentation is. My students were always my priority and I had a great rapport with them and their parents. These young teachers were making so many enemies that they couldn't even go into the faculty room to make copies and pick up their print outs.

It's the young ones who are just starting out who think they know everything and don't want anyone's input. Unfortunately, I was to be an equal in the classroom, but they were the ones who didn't want to collaborate or plan with me..I was very flexible and willing to do what I could to make it a good working relationship. I also was a computer programmer for many years and have knowledge of the latest and greatest tech skills in the classroom. Many teachers forget that teaching is a job and not a social club..I am there to work and expect to be treated with respect. I am not there to be their friends or to socialize with them and I think that they were afraid that I wanted to be their friends...it would have been nice if we had a friendly working relationship, but I wasn't there to make friends, I was there to make a living and now it's all over for me and I am done..so ya'll enjoy yourselves and remember what goes around comes around..eventually.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:17 PM
 
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Quote:
It's the young ones who are just starting out who think they know everything and don't want anyone's input.
Here you are, stereotyping again. You're also the one who didn't go to an interview because the principal was young and "looked like a member of the Jersey Shore TV show." You stereotyped the principal and didn't even go to the interview because you decided what he was like before even interviewing.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:20 PM
 
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Fashion Girl, I say this with all due respect but you need to get past your anger and move on. As someone who has been fired, RIFíd, mistreated, etc I know how hard it is, but if you let it continue to eat away at you it will destroy you. And, I promise you, itís coming across in your interviews. Itís not your age thatís holding you back, but rather the chip on your shoulder.

Get counseling, take a year off, do something else for a few years, do whatever you need to do to get mentally healthy again before going back in the classroom otherwise the only people who will suffer are the kids and yourself. Trust me, Iíve been in your shoes. Iíve felt your anger, your sense of injustice and your resentment.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:45 PM
 
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I remember the days when I was a young, inexperienced teacher. I made many mistakes and learned to make adjustments for the good of all. Luckily, I was given a chance to prove my worth. I think administrators are as varied as the teaching population.

When we hire newbies in our district, Iím always interested in what they can offer to make our school great. Iím open to new ideas they may have learned in their recent classes or research. Weíve had some great hires and some stinkers. That's the way a workplace operates.

This post makes me sad.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:06 PM
 
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I think some people misunderstood what I was saying in my original post. I never said that I am against young teachers. What annoys me are women (of ANY age) that have zero experience in a classroom, think it's cute to act dumb, and act as though they are running a summer camp with all of their fluffy art projects (I am not talking about craftivities that are tied to a standard).

I used to work at a school where the teacher in the grade before mine acted this way. She was very immature and thought disrespectful behavior was cute and adorable. Students never had to do any work and were never taught how to behave in a classroom.

I know many young, first year teachers that are mature and act like an intelligent adult. They are not the ones I am venting about. It is frustrating when a principal chooses the immature teacher over someone who has all of their ducks in a row.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:15 PM
 
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In the past, principals usually had extensive teaching experience. Nowadays, many young teachers pile into administrative jobs without any real teaching experience and without the ability to lead effectively. This makes them vulnerable and defensive. Our former principal (early 30s) had absolutely no leadership ability or people skills. She either threatened teachers who disagreed with her (mostly older with many years of experience) or giggled like a school girl when with younger teachers. She left the district, so who knows who and what's next, but good leadership is hard to find these days. It doesn't help school climate that turn-over is so high now. When I began teaching, most of the teachers were older and had taught together for decades. Now, we have about 10 new teachers as well as new administrators every year.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:18 PM
 
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My P is thankfully not one of these. There is a girl who subs in our district who is a major dizzy bimbo. The dresses inappropriately all the time, talks to third graders like they are her high school buddies, shops for clothes on her phone during recess duty, posts pics of kids to snapchat. In short she is a disaster.

She had been interviewing with the district for a year and got hired to teach ESY. She was awful.

I knew that my site had 3 openings with 2 growth positions and 1 teacher moving out of state. I was praying she got passed over and God has answered my prayers. Thanks the Lord my P hired seasoned teachers and not high school bimbos.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:40 AM
 
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"In the past, principals usually had extensive teaching experience. Nowadays, many young teachers pile into administrative jobs without any real teaching experience."

This is a huge problem. As is the case with most jobs, to be even considered for a management position, candidates should have a significant amount of experience in the profession. That's just a basic norm of most professions that, for some reason, isn't required in education.

The bigger problem I see with young administrators is that all most of them know is the horrible nonsense they were taught in universities about education (let kids do whatever they want with zero consequences, low academic expectations called high expectations - crafts and project- based fluff supplanting truly useful academic assessments -, the belief that all behavior problems are the teacher's fault, when anybody who lives in the real world knows that kids are responsible for their own actions, and most of what they exhibit is a reflection of their parents' practices). There's no way any of this stuff is defensible as good for kids by anybody who is remotely intellectually honest.
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I agree with the statement
Old 07-08-2018, 05:43 AM
 
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that we shouldn't paint with a broad brush.
I worked for a P who had a lot of small faults. She had one talent. When the district was hiring all the 4 Ps of elementary schools would interview the candidates. Many of them wanted the same few. Our P always picked someone the others didn't think "shined." The teachers she picked came to work with us, they were humble, even though they were amazing teachers, they wanted to learn from more experienced teachers and they all wanted to work as a team member not a lone wolf.
So, it isn't that young teachers lack respect for experienced teachers or are caught up in the "fluff" It is that most Ps don't pick the right teachers for the right reasons. JMHO
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:43 AM
 
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Itís not just female principals, male principals love the idiots as well. I worked as a paraprofessional for a couple of years where the principal and I were the only males in the building. He confided in me the teachers who he thought were ďhotĒ and would be ďall overĒ if he wasnít married. His wife divorced him after their children had grown.

When he was bored he would walk the building and do drop in observations (well before they were commonplace) of the young teachers. One of the veteran teachers was jealous of all the attention paid to the younger teachers and complained frequently.

Of the three teachers hired the same year as I, only one remains in teaching; music teacher moved to Nashville, KDG teacher became a stay at home mom/substitute, and the third grade teacher dropped the baby talk, moved to another district, and still teaches third.
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I'm sorry for those who
Old 07-08-2018, 07:04 AM
 
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faced agism, or discrimination of any kind. That is not fair and should not happen.

But, to balance that, I will share that I didn't even start teaching until I was over forty. I was a new teacher but never a young one. I am nearly 6' tall and almost 300 lbs. No one would ever accuse me of being "cute." (My DH loves me...)

I have worked in three separate districts in two separate states. I have interviewed with both men and women-both younger and older than me-mainly younger. Maybe I've been lucky. Idk. I have just finished my 12th school year at 53.

I think we all need to watch our attitudes and preconceived ideas about others. It is not fair to the old or the young, the cute or the plain, the thin or the heavy, and so on. Just my thoughts.
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I worked a short time
Old 07-08-2018, 07:08 AM
 
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for a male P who hired only attractive blonde, blue eyed teachers. I honestly didn't think he was even aware of his bias, but we always have a staff school photo taken on picture day. I asked a young teacher, who I was very close with to guess t the teachers this P hired and she quickly discovered what they had in common. The only way I gave him a pass was they were all good teachers.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:26 AM
 
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I can tell you've been abused at your school. I'm am so sorry. She's right about taking time to process your experience with a therapist.
I too find it difficult to work in a place with too many of the same gender.All men: usually the men are"dead inside". They work next to each other for years and never know if they are married and have kids. I once worked at a mostly male-dominated business where they had staff meetings at Hooters. I'm not kidding.
All females working together can get petty, mean girl, relational aggression nightmare stemming from crushing insecurity and low self-esteem. Of course, not all men are pigs and not all women mean. It just takes one unhappy person to spread cancerI really think they should be teaching pre-service teachers conflict resolution and office politics.

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All breath..
Old 07-08-2018, 01:13 PM
 
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a sigh of relief and know that I have left teaching for good. It wasn't by choice, but since I have been screwed over by 3 schools in less than 5 years and I am quite old, it's done. No one is going to hire me at my age with my work history....If you people were able to get hired after the age of 30 and were able to keep your jobs for as long as you wanted to work, well then congratulations. Because in the NJ/NY area it is brutal and these principals want you out by the time you hit 50 - it is the truth and each position advertised literally has hundreds of applicants - even the dangerous urban school districts. These schools want young teachers who will be there for a few years and they can then hire a whole new bunch of little girls..they want the turnover. I have also heard supervisors say that they want to hire very young and very new teachers - of course no one will believe me, but I have heard it.

All of my evaluations were effective - even the creeps who got rid of me a few months ago gave me effective evaluations and wouldn't put anything negative about me in writing..so don't blame my bad luck on my being an ineffective teacher. I didn't know I was supposed to be happy that I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on my livelihood only to be screwed over due to nepotism, politics and my age..how do I pay for counseling with no health insurance by the way? I also think counseling is useless...life is tough.

And even though I don't have to defend myself to strangers, I do know how to act and behave when I went on interviews. However, I told the truth as to what happened because I am legally obligated to do so. I worked in other professions and know how to act when I went on interviews...should I laugh and sing when I explain my situation?

Also when you have a gap of employment on your resume, you are even less able to find a job - so taking a year off by choice is really ensuring one will never work again. I'm going to enjoy my unemployment and then look for something that will be low stress and just enough to support myself..but as for teaching, I am done.
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Junior Member

Gifted
 
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 76
Junior Member

Old 07-09-2018, 04:12 AM
 
Clip to ScrapBook #30

I used to have a weird thing about not trusting or liking other women, too... until I realized that irrationally disliking 51% of the world's population is ridiculous.

An insecure P who is not an intelligent person of action is going to feel threatened by others who seem more capable, regardless of gender. Plain and simple.
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