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Summerwillcom Summerwillcom is offline
 
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Curious, want to know
Old 09-01-2018, 01:26 PM
 
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What I want to know is this: We had a sped teacher for many yrs who was excellent. She pulled kids out of class, worked w/ them alone or in small groups, and actually taught skills. Weekly, we saw what the kids did in her room. She sent a manilla envelope and inside was a 1st draft , edited, and rewritten composition. (4th graders) The math and reading skills would show some type of assessment and practice they'd done during the week.) The papers were even graded.
We now have a SPED teacher who wants the regular ed teachers to do all of the planning, copies, and work for all of the SPED kids for the time she spends with the well behaved kids. I'd think if you pull a kid, you'd be the one doing the planning for them. Is this right or not? She says it is. She does not pull the behavior problems and teachers notice it. Is this some new fad in schools (the last 5 yrs) or is this unusual? Is it normal now for sped teachers not to pull the problem kids out? Is it normal for them to expect the general ed teacher to make special plans and assignments for them when the kids are pulled out? Maybe my misunderstanding of what is going on is what makes me feel the sped dept is pretty useless here. I know I sound like a whiny general ed teacher, but I seriously do not understand what the sped teacher does here other than IEP's and meetings. I see teachers post about inclusion classes, but we don't have that here. General Ed has all of the kids no matter the diagnosis or learning disability. Sometimes the sped teacher will pull the well behaved kids. She writes the IEP's and will give the poorly behaved kids a few minutes a week with an aide. The aide just comes into class and sits w/ that kid for a few minutes a week. Since it is not consistent, it is a waste of time. I probably should have put this on the vent, but seriously wonder if this is a change in policy or just a really awful sped teacher. Anyone who deals with the tough kids has my admiration because I am well aware of what it is like trying to teach them. Sorry if I seem like a PITA. I have had a couple of years I have had tons of really needy sped kids lately who are not helped by sped at all.


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TAOEP TAOEP is offline
 
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What!?!?!?!?
Old 09-01-2018, 02:35 PM
 
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Doesn't sound right to me. BUT what does the IEP say? It should specify what services each student is supposed to get, how many minutes weekly, and who will be delivering the services.

I'd start a log, keeping track of exactly what each student receives (Monday 9/10 Pull-out w/ Sped teacher 10:15-10:40) After a few weeks, take a look and see whether each student is getting what he/she is legally entitled to receive. IEPs are legal documents.

Is the Sped teacher (and aide) working with the students on material from your regular ed class? If so, perhaps you should be giving her a copy of the lesson plan and work. She should be doing the customizing.
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Summerwillcom Summerwillcom is offline
 
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:15 PM
 
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I was too wordy, cus I am beyond annoyed and shocked. She writes the IEP's. The way she writes the IEP's is that the sweet kids (mostly girls) get pulled out for so many minutes a week by her.
The rowdy, SED ones (usually boys), get an aide for maybe 15-20 minutes 2-3x a week that come into the class and sit by them. They usually do TRY to keep the kid on task for 10-15 minutes.
Thanks for letting me know that I need to give her the work and let her customize it. I spent all last wkend planning for kids and making all the changes for the girls she pulls out.
I had a yr in the past like this 1 that was a nightmare. I have tried to figure out what my job is and what her job is w/out much luck. She misunderstands and is very defensive whenever anyone tries to talk to her. She thinks the worst of people. (Like if you forgot to give her something, she'd assume you were trying to sabotage her instead of realizing you have been very busy and forgotten.)
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I agree with Taoep
Old 09-01-2018, 06:20 PM
 
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Also, you have input into what is put into the IEP. If the time allotted to the "more challenging" boys is insufficient, you can say so at the meeting. And you can request pull out rather than push in. I always bring documentation of what the standard is (grade level student work or student text to show the reading level) and work samples from the student in question. It's really helpful for parents to see what their child can do and what the goal is.

The IEP should be working towards helping the child achieve the grade level standards. Then it is up to the special education teacher to provide the instruction and materials to achieve the IEP goals. Of course, the classroom teacher can collaborate on what the class is doing. But the special ed. teacher should be an expert in teaching students with learning disabilities, similar to how we provide differentiated instruction. It is up to them to prepare and teach since they are teachers, not aides. They are getting paid the same as you.
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Summerwillcom Summerwillcom is offline
 
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Waldo
Old 09-01-2018, 07:46 PM
 
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Thank you! I know districts and even schools can be different. I tried a few years ago to let it be known that a few kids ( 1 autistic/ other ODD/ another w/ RAD) needed pull out instruction.
Each time, she got really snarky with me saying she only had so much time in 1 day. I understand that, but she is pulling kids that I could teach without her help and just leaving the disruptive ones. You could tell she was really mad that I suggested it. That was the yr I gave up trying with her. Most people had given up before me.
I just tried doing it again this yr and got a worse response. A light bulb went on when I read about showing what others at that age can do during a meeting and hoping the parent picks up on it when I say the child needs individual instruction. I will try that during my next meeting...next wk. ( I have 1 heck of a class. (laughing now only because it is Saturday! Yes, she is getting paid as a teacher. I think she just found a way to make her job easier. The P says we need another SE aide this yr, but don't have enough to properly cover the extreme cases. There are 4 of us w/ classes filled w/ kids w/ major problems this yr! ( hitting, kicking, screaming, throwing things, refusing to follow directions and screaming, "No!" I hope I survive this yr!!! Thanks so much!


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There are some misunderstandings here
Old 09-01-2018, 10:00 PM
 
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about what special education is and what sped teachers do...

Quote:
She sent a manilla envelope and inside was a 1st draft , edited, and rewritten composition. (4th graders) The math and reading skills would show some type of assessment and practice they'd done during the week.) The papers were even graded.
Wow, this surprises me. I consider myself a pretty darn good sped teacher who did her job (actually, I just retired ) and I have never delivered work and data to the gen. ed. teacher. I planned everything myself, taught everything myself, used my own materials (and often created my own curriculum and materials) ALL according to each individual student's IEP GOALS. I have worked with some gen. ed teachers (very few) who wanted me to share what I did with the kids we shared very frequently. I worked with grades K-5 in many different classrooms. If I prepared things to share and met with all of these teachers as frequently as these few wanted to meet, I would not have had time to teach! It was also NOT my job to report to the gen ed teachers. I DID communicate as often as possible. Much more often than they communicated with me. I was required by the district to prepare three (one each trimester) progress reports per year, plus write the present levels in the annual IEP. Parents and IEP team have access to these.


Quote:
I tried a few years ago to let it be known that a few kids ( 1 autistic/ other ODD/ another w/ RAD) needed pull out instruction.
Each time, she got really snarky with me saying she only had so much time in 1 day.
Just to clarify-do the "naughty" ones all have IEPs? I'm assuming so. I don't have access to their IEPs, but you should have access to at least some of the IEP, so you should know what their services (minutes and goals) are. If she refuses to serve them, go to admin. Sounds like you've talked to her about this a lot, so if these kids have pull out minutes, the law is being broken and it's past time for them to receive their services. No way that us posters can know what they need, as it is all individualized..

Remember, kids with behaviors sometimes don't have academic goals, so they wouldn't necessarily be pulled with the kids with academic goals. SOUNDS like the aide time is possibly covering some of the service time for these kids with behaviors? I realize it often doesn't make sense to put inexperienced non-professionals with kids with behaviors. It often is the case though and we sped teachers often spend a lot of time training/working with the aides so they are able to monitor/model/keep some data, etc. in gen. ed. It often doesn't work the way it should.

Quote:
but she is pulling kids that I could teach without her help and just leaving the disruptive ones.
The idea that she is 'teaching kids that you can handle' is besides the point. They are kids with disabilities and IEPs, so she needs to work with them on their IEP goals. I do agree that many of these kids with behaviors and/or SE needs also need to be pulled to work 1:1 or in a small group with the TEACHER to work on their goals. I am one who pulled these kids and wrote behavior plans which allowed them to come to me when needed. But, I do know this isn't the norm most of the time. I don't know, without knowing the kids, IEPs, and situations, whether you are asking for something unreasonable.

I would ask for a meeting with the teacher and go over the plans. Try not to be demanding. Try to be understanding and realize that she has a lot on her plate-which is never an excuse for not doing her job, however. Remember too, that you are not her boss, but you should be working together for the kids.

One last thing-another poster on this thread said:

Quote:
Also, you have input into what is put into the IEP. If the time allotted to the "more challenging" boys is insufficient, you can say so at the meeting. And you can request pull out rather than push in.
Well, you can definitely give your input, but just because you are on an IEP team doesn't mean you get to decide what the services will look like. AND, in many cases, it is not the sped teacher's choice whether the kids are pulled or not. I've had principals argue with me about "inclusion", but luckily, they did not fight me too much when I wanted to pull my kids (like I said, I served 6 grade levels with very little aide time-how in the hell would I find time to do inclusion with 6 grade levels ?) rather than co-teach.


Quote:
The IEP should be working towards helping the child achieve the grade level standards.
Not true if the kid is below grade level. Most (if eligible for academic areas) are working at least 2 or more (mine were sometimes 4 yrs below) years below grade level. Goals are written with standards as guidelines, but NOT grade level. It is not our job to get the kids "to standard" as a rule, rather we teach to the IEP goals-which are determined by the evaluation, not necessarily what the gen. ed. teacher thinks the goals should be. Everything taught needs to be driven by the evaluation.

I got really long-winded here, so sorry for that. But, there is really no way we can tell you for sure what type of services your kids should be getting because we don't know them and haven't seen the evals and IEPs. I'm sorry she seems to be doing a less than stellar job. I would make sure you know what is on their IEPs and keep documentation of when they are pulled. Meet with her to express your concerns.When the IEP for each is due (well, before they are due) make sure you express your concern about their progress and share your data/docs with her so she can see if things are working in class. I wish you luck. I know it is frustrating to not have the support you feel your kids need. This is true for special ed. teachers as well. I felt like I spent so much (non paid) time begging for help for my kids. One reason I am so happy to be retired. Even though I did my job well and felt that I gave my kids what they needed, I still had a few gen.ed. teachers who felt I should have done more. It is a really hard job. A job that most gen. ed. staff does not understand.

Last edited by newspedteach; 09-01-2018 at 10:24 PM..
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Summerwillcom Summerwillcom is offline
 
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News Sped
Old 09-02-2018, 12:38 PM
 
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Thanks for taking the time and the insight. I seriously understand how her job includes stuff we are all clueless about. I am not demanding person either.
If anything, I have probably failed the last couple of yrs by giving up trying to get her to see that certain kids need more help than an aide sitting by them for a few minutes a week until this wk. ( Yes, the "naughty" ones are academically behind, by yrs often, and have IEP's.).
I understand they need to be taught where they are at too..). I spent a lot of my own money a few yrs ago buying things because I was so tired of making everything for these kids w/ visuals and so many levels.)
There has been a gap since I have even tried to talk to her because she was so defensive last time I had to deal with her. During meetings, teachers now just agree w/ her to avoid fall out.
You are totally right about the input. I have given my input at times, but it doesn't seem to matter. She has the IEP's written when we meet and doesn't want to change anything. When I 1st wrote this, I was so frustrated. We have had a huge influx of kids w/ major problems the last 4 yrs. She is probably frustrated by it too.
I have been processing this for awhile now and think I kind of knew all along that we went from having an extraordinary sped teacher (who retired) to an inexperienced one who had no mentor/help really. Plus, she is so paranoid and interprets things differently than most people.
I was wondering too if what I expect was reasonable or had changed. I still really do not understand how a kid is supposed to be helped by a few minutes a week w/ an aide and 0 sped teacher time. I am thinking too it may not be reasonable to even expect her to help. ( She doesn't want to from what I can see.) Congrats on retirement!!! If I can survive this yr, I'll probably be joining you! I was hoping to get 2 more yrs in, but may need to just take this day by day!
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