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Why is no one acknowledging this data
Old 03-15-2019, 05:21 PM
 
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So I was perusing the internet reading articles and studies about teaching kids with emotional/behavioral disorders because....yeah this is how I spend my free time....

Then I came across this article
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2...inclusion.html

I am pretty sure many would call it the Captain Obvious of inclusion studies but.... no that I know ever acknowledges this or says that it needs to be addressed.

The article and study both conclude the answer isn’t unbridled exclusion but this data needs to be considered and it’s ramifacations need to part of the inclusion discussions and gen ed classroom support plans - so why isn’t it. Why is this an extremely well ignored elephant in the room. Why isn’t this part of tier 1/2 intervention for non identified kids. Could we use this data to support struggling kids and prevent them from eventually needing sped services. Could supporting inclusion more to prevent these effects through aide and more thoughtful placement choices (as opposed to general “this is what we do here we are 100% inclusion or nothing” type placment choices) be an intervention in and of itself for other kids?



Last edited by Kinderkr4zy; 03-15-2019 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:51 PM
 
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Can you check the link? It won’t open.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:43 PM
 
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I think its fixed-I was using a link for the mobile app because I was on my phone. Technology whoopsy
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:02 PM
 
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Wow!! Finally someone actually looked at this issue.

I like loved my inclusion students, but made it clear from get go their behavior had to be somewhat accountable in my room.

We workdays hear the severe cases screaming and fighting in the hall and it scared my littles.
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Inclusion
Old 03-16-2019, 04:28 AM
 
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Oh wow I could go on about my opinions about inclusion for days.

I am dually certified (regular ed and special ed) and last year I taught regular ed. I had taught special ed for four years prior and in IMO that did not make me better equipped to handle ED/BD issues in regular ed.

The article seems to imply that teachers with such experience are more successful with this issue. Not my personal experience.

About seven years ago, before I was certified in sped and while the teacher job market was tight here, I was a 1:1 aide for a student. The student clearly had emotional issues, but also had a developmental disability.

Anyone who even knew a smidge about the developmental disability knew that his extreme behavior was not normal for the disability. Many other students with the disability had been successful at that school.

The student's severe physical aggression and constant verbal threats basically ruined the first part of second grade for the rest of the class.

But his parents had a lot of money and a lot of pull in the wealthy district and it was basically a court battle to get the student removed from the regular ed classroom and then regular ed school altogether.

Again, this was wealthy district and I don't think there was a huge lasting impact on the rest of the class as the the class parents were very involved and proactive. I still wonder about the kids in that class, though. They are in high school now.

I still am waiting to hear that the student I was an aide for made good on his threat to kill his mother.

FWIW, I teach I now self-contained special ed and after teaching regular ed last year, I know self-contained is where my heart is and where I belong. My students have very little interaction with their peers (not my call) and I am OK with that.



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Old 03-16-2019, 05:15 AM
 
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Yes, it's a hard situation all around. I can see where people are coming from because in SOME cases it is good to have them in regular ed classes. However, I had a student who significantly took away from the education of the others. It was a good lesson for the other students in terms of empathy and understanding different needs, but it was at the expense of academic learning. Eventually (end of year ) the child was moved to a different school that could better support his needs.
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Stories are data...
Old 03-17-2019, 09:34 AM
 
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I will begin by confessing that I did not read the article, at least not yet. One of the statements in the comments I identify with is "It's a hard situation all around." I also fully appreciate the stories and would posit the stories are also data.

From what I've seen, too often "inclusion" means only that the class must accept/tolerate whatever comes along with it because we tend to explain (excuse) behavior rather than modify it. Yes, students should learn empathy and understanding but this is a multi-sided issue. I'd like to see some data (in addition to the stories) regarding the full impact on the "regular" students--not to mention the teacher.

My story is, in short, an older student was physically aggressive (pushing them out of his way) to the second graders I was in charge of... when I tried to step between him and my students he started pushing me around as well. When I verbally managed to confront him and make him stop his "handler" came screaming at me "It's okay! He's mine!" I informed her that it was not okay and she needed to supervise him more closely if he couldn't meet a minimum standard of behavior.

Guess what?! I actually ended being required to "defend" myself for confronting the student because he is "fragile." In my defense, I noted that so were my second graders. Nothing came of it (including any change in him or how he is supervised) but I offer the story as an example of how out of balance we are on this issue.

I am far from heartless. I firmly support early intervention and support of kids with difficulties but I'm also seeing very young kids showing up with issues that are unreasonably disruptive (and in some cases, dangerous) in a regular classroom.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:14 PM
 
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Here's the problem in my school. There are not just a few students with these needs. Our district actually does have a self-contained affective needs programs, and I have seen kids sent there. However, we get more and more kids like this every year. The violence, tantrumming/screaming all day long, eloping, etc. is not coming from just a couple of kids. It's at least a couple of kids PER CLASS. There are probably 50 kids like this in the building.

Is my school the only one like this? What is the solution then? We can't put 50 kids into a self-contained program. There isn't money or space for that, not to mention the department of education would have a field day with a school that tried to put that many in self-contained.

We actually have a class that my P has tried to run like an ED program this year. This particular grade level for whatever reason has TONS of kids with extreme behaviors. No exaggeration, every teacher they've had has quit entirely or left classroom teaching. As a grade level cohort, their numbers are also smaller than many of our other grade levels. Instead of shuffling teachers around, she set up one class with only 12 kids in it. About 4 of those are "models."

They have all day para support and spend 30 minutes daily doing specific social/emotional learning with the psychologist, spend 30 minutes doing yoga, have a token economy, have way modified the work and expectations (which we're not even supposed to do in sped) and have tried about one million other strategies to try to get these kids to be successful. They also have a teacher who is known for strong management and ASKED for this set up. Not a thing has worked. It's Lord of the Flies in there. It's to the point where we've heavily discussed taking the "models" out because we feel like we're actually creating trauma for them by leaving them in this class.

I can see how if you're maybe in an affluent school where you're talking about 2-3 kids with major problems, "let's put them in self-contained" makes sense. I have no idea what the solution is supposed to be for a school like mine.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Is my school the only one like this?
Not by a long shot... in our rural area a major portion of our budget is "special needs" and those needs are growing every year and becoming more costly. Unfortunately, all generalities on the topic are going to be false but the system isn't working.

I spoke at some length with a speech therapist recently (not from our school) and she confirmed that the number of kids needing speech therapy is growing exponentially. Her theory (which has face validity) is there's a very little actual conversation taking place in many homes, thanks in a large part to technology and schedules that mean no more family meals, etc.

I use the example because we might need to start acknowledging our schools can't, in six hours per day, "fix" problems that are being created in the other 18. We might also consider abandoning the belief that education is the solution to every social and behavioral ill. I could probably go on and fill several pages, but my last one is we might also consider the possibility that an expectation of discipline (self or otherwise) is not something we should be abandoning.
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