We just found out we will be using EnVision Math next year. I'm not sure who the publisher is but we are excited since we have been working for two years without a math resource.

Has anyone used this resource? What do you think about it??

What things should we be prepared for or look out for?

Our district is looking at this one too. We're down to choosing envision or going w/macmillian. A lot of people think the envision has a better researched based curriculum. I know it has really good online resources including the TE and SE online. I've tried it out a bit here and there because I have the sample and I like it. It's a really good resource for teachers, so if you haven't had a resource in 2 years you will love the TE! It's also got great ideas for differentiation. It's quite a step up from our current math book that is for sure! The publisher is Scott Foresman/Pearson. Search online and you can probably get good info for that book.

Which one do you like the best? Envision seems to have a lot more problem solving than what we are currently using. It also moves very well from concrete to abstract. I am not thrilled with the large consumable student edition. It is very large and I am concerned about desk space. Also, although it is gummed for easy removal it is only easy if you use the book in order. If you skip around like our curriculum does the pages tear out. It would be very hard for a 2nd grader to do and impossible for a 1st grader! I must confess I haven/t really looked at MacMillian. I would be interested to hear what you think.

Hi-
My district just adopted Scott Foresman Math. We took a look at McMillian and did not like it at all. It had little or no technology pieces. Since we adopted SF Math, I have the opportunity to attend a day long meeting about enVision Math. It has a strong visual learning component which includes Stuart Murphy books. He writes the "Math Starts" picture books. It has a lot of problem solving, and like someone said earlier, it has great ideas for differentiation. It has some strong technology pieces. I would highly recommend this program. I love Scott Foresman Math, but I wish we could switch to enVision. I could see enVision working well with a Guided Math model.

Wow! I was going to post about EnVision math, too.

Our school is looking at it, and actually it is our top choice, but our school board hasn't approved it yet. Supposedly because it isn't research based?!

Does anyone know for sure if it is? If it is, why wouldn't the school board know that?

Bassett Lover....we looked at a sample pack of EnVision and I didn't see a consumable student book. The book they showed us was a large hard bound book with a beaver on the front...I think playing a flute??

I looked online like someone suggested and the website said the book cost 57.00. I didn't see any other book and I doubt that is the one you're talking about.

I am curious to know if this is a part they didn't show us and I didn't see. I wonder which would be better.

We also will most likely be using the book out of order.

This program is research based. It is backed by the research of Skip Fennell (NCTM president), Randy Charles, John Van DeWalle, and others. Those are some big names out there in the math education world. enVision has a consumable book in K-2. It is oversized so when you tear out the page and fold it, you actually have 4 pages for the student. Grades 3-5 are noncomsumable books. I saw a presentation on this product and really liked what I saw!

Supposedly the gummed pages are supposed to be easier to tear out? Our first grade teachers were concerned about the size of the book, too. Funny because that was one of the things the envision rep was so proud of! The books for 3rd-5th are normal hardbound books, so that's not an issue for me. Actually, for our district the technology components that Macmillian is offering vs. EnVision are virtually the same. We had our technology people go through it piece by piece and though they name things differently they both have the visual learning, the online tutoring, etc. And though I can't respond with any real authority, I know that enVision is very well researched. Our district math curriculum person really hopes we go w/that one. Each school gets one vote, so we'll see. I think I'll be happy either way.

I think it is so interesting how different your views are compared to my district. Scott Foresman was one of the last publishers picked by us. The lessons were way too hard. There weren't enough example problem to help students at home. The technology was good, but for our district, it was too much. We only have teacher computers, (no student computers except in the computer lab) and no projectors for the quiz show. Ideally, since it is a 9 year adoption, we hope to have projectors and student computers in every classroom. It is just hard to pick SF when we don't currently have the resources.

On the other hand, we LOVED Macmillan. We like the foldables that come with it. Technology was appropriate for our district. I thought the info was grade level appropriate. Lots of word problems!

I guess your decisions have to be based on the needs of your students in your district.

Has anyone picked Saxon for their district? Just curious.

From what I saw, the consumable is only for 1st and 2nd grade. FYI, if you search from Yahoo for enVision, you can look at the whole student text (granted it's the Texas version, but it still seems like it might be useful). I think I may be from the same district that's been without a "resource" for two years.

Hi there!
enVision Math has big tablets for the k-2 students that look like placemats. The sample materials have tablets, but when you go to order the final materials, you can ask them to send them in lesson packs that are pre-folded and can be handed out with each lesson.
Heather

The student book for K-2 for students is going to be already folded and shrink wrapped for each lesson so it will be user friendly. A representative today told us that they had some people complain about having to tear the pages out. We are also looking at this for our adoption.

Our district has just adopted this program for next year too! It is my understanding that 1st and 2nd grade have a consumable tear out type of book and the older grades have a hard bound book.

Our school is looking at Envision Math for the 2008-2009 school year. I am looking for schools that piloted the program. If anyone knows of any schools that have used this program, please respond. Thanks

Interesting to hear how many teachers have considered enVision, Houghton-Mifflin, or Everyday Math. Our school is in the process of changing and we are considering envision or Houghton-Mifflin. I teach in MI and many of the districts in my county use Everyday Math which we don't like. We currently use Houghton-Mifflin 2002 for grades 3-6 and like it. Although we are leaning toward enVision, it seems to be "dumbed down" for grades K-2 compared to what we're using. Our K-2 teachers are concerned there isn't enough "meat" nor enough individual practice for students to work toward mastery. I'd appreciate any opinions/feedback on this.

My school (as well as 83% of our entire district) adopted enVision for the fall. I attended a 3 hour training by a Pearson rep on Saturday. I am thrilled and cannot wait to start teaching with enVision. Our district purchased every component of the program and we opted for the prefolded, stapled, and shrink-wrapped consumables rather than the huge tear-out consumables. I have been teaching Investigations and Investigations 2 for the past 5 years so it will be a transition. Investigations is all about the abstract and enVision is concrete to abstract, lots of guided practice, independent practice, assessments at the beginning and end of units, timed tests, technology options, intervention options, literacy connections, and more. I am excited!!

We choose and actually got our way with using the Envision program. My grade level and I just attended the introductory workshop about the components Envision. I teach kindergarten and we are required to do our math in minilessons and then backed by stations. I am having trouble with scheduling. The workshop leader says that you have to teach parts 2 and 3 together which, is about 45 minutes long. I need to shrink the whole thing down to 20 min.! Is anybody else doing minilessons while using Envision? How are you making it work? What can I cut out of it?

EnVision lessons have a 4 step plan. So you could do each step as a mini-lesson. 1. Review/problem of the day 2. intro activity 3. cartoon (visual Learning Bridge) 4. practice/ problem solving 5. extra - center games. You could even separate the Practice and problem solving pages.

Our district just left Saxon. I really like it for K-2 above that it is not as good. You must do it in order for the kids to really get the most out of it which is a problem if your district benchmarks don't match. If you are considering it don't just look at the worksheets. Really look at the lesson portion that is where the teaching happens. The worksheets are more of cummulative review. I don't know of as many technology resourcees for Saxon as Envision. Some teachers didn't feel that Saxon covered enough in first grade. I feel like it covered things really well in the lesson and with higher level questions. The teacher edition was scripted. That was nice for a sub. It also provided me with a way to think about questioning during the lesson. I never totally followed the script. I have my own personality but it is a clear helpful guide. I found lots of ways to differentiate with in each lesson but some teachers struggled with that. It is designed for whole group instruction. Each lesson when well done does fill the alloted time. I often did math groups and centers at another time.

Our District will be using envision math starting this year. I really like what I have seen thus far. There is no big bulky TE to carry around. Each unit is put in a folder type book with the pages attached. All the folders are the perfect size to store in a file cabinet drawer. The blackline masters are also available online if you loose a copy and need to replace it. Our district also purchased the option where the students will also be able to access their text book via the web in the event they leave their book at school. You can also post the assignments and the students can obtain the assignments via the web. Everyone is really excited about this new math adoption.

1. Daily Spiral Review-morning work (put in math folder for later)
2. Pull out math homework, DSR and math notebooks for math (during math)
3. While you are checking homework, students are completing the Problem of the Day in their math notebooks. Don’t forget, you can put the POD on your t.v. to make it easier to see.
4. Give answers for homework. Go over POD, DSR and select problems from homework that you think the kids had a hard time with.
5. Do Interactive Learning together. (This is the most important part of the lesson. Be careful because some of them have worksheets that go along with them and others the kids just complete in their math notebooks.)
6. In the book, complete the Learning Strip. (at the top of the page)
7. Complete all Guided Practice together.
8. Assign important problems from Independent Practice and have students complete independently on white board or math notebooks while you are going around helping and checking.
9. Once you are satisfied that students understand, pass out the Quick Check. As students complete these, I collect them and pass out Homework Worksheets. I always copy Reteaching/Practice on one page so parents have something to look at to help them. I also copy several copies of the Enrichment page so that I can give it to my high kids. A lot of times I assign them just a couple of problems from the Practice (because they are more similar to the OAT) and then tell them to complete the Enrichment.
10. Once all students have their homework, I meet with a small group of students who did not do well on the day before’s Checkpoint.
11. If students finish with their homework and they are not meeting with me, I let them pick up the center that goes with that lesson and work on that until I am finished. I copy both levels of Centers and just tell my kids which one they need to pick up. Usually the same kids need the same level pretty much all the time.

***Don’t forget you also need to do timed tests at some point. You are looking at a good 90 minutes to an hour and 45 minutes for math to get all components in.

***Each Topic (chapter) has several different tests. There is one in the book and three in the packet. I usually use one of these tests to review the day before a test. The actual test you should use is from one of your separate teacher books you go called Topic Tests in OAT format. Also, notice that every five Topics ends with both a Topic test and a Benchmark Test in OAT format.

I am looking to use envision with my students next year and I was wondering where to locate a scope and sequence. It would be for kindergarten. Any ideas?

What grade do you teach? My school just adopted Envision and I am having a hard time with it. There is so much to do everyday. We did not have the training for this program.
We have a curriculum and have to match it to the lessons.
If you can help, please email me at cwilliams.2007@yahoo.com
Oh, I teach 1st grade.

Hi. We are in the early stages of math series consideration. I'm very interested in knowing about enVision? Would you be willing to share? Thanks. Bev Paul

enVisionMATH is definitley research based. In fact research is quoted thorughout the Overview and Implementation Guide for the program to justify the reason components such as the visual learning bridge and the guided problem solving library.
There is a research book (about 2 inches thick) that gives the research behind the whole program.

We adopted the curriculum this last year and we chose not to purchase the big tablet book - instead we adopted the student edition consumable. They come with each lesson compiled in groups of 24 or 30 and shrink-wrapped. It is the same information, but it is already removed from the book and ready to go. You open up the shrink wrap and you are ready to go. My only caution is - that the consumables are not cheap & they require storage space unless you can purchase them on an annual basis.

I was a pilot teacher for this program last year and we adopted it for this year. I thought by looking at it and going to all of the trainings that is was a wonderful program. Using it this year, I'm not so sure. It starts out really tough for the students. I think once they have had it for a couple of years they will get used to it. But it definately is not differentiated. It has the 3 levels of worksheets for differentiation, but that does not work with my IEP'd students. It is too high of a level for them and it is too much reading. There are way too many components to fit into a time period and I am overwhelmed. The technological part is nice if you can figure it out. It is very time consuming. Let me know if you have any tips.

My sons school in fort worth texas started using this program this year and it is the worst. It seems to be a blend of everyday amth and mcp....both are quite poor curriculums. He is in the 2nd grade and doing work from the 1st. the are doing double digit addends again. and haven't yet it is novemebr now, begun to cover multiplication. ALso the program doesn't actually teach the children the basicsa of math it gives them charts and teaches menatal math shortcuts of using groupings of ten to reach an answer with out actually teaching how to work the problem. so all the kids learn is a short cust which will not work for all problems.]
In short. It Sucks.
I recently bought abeka math I am teaching him myself now. at least for math.

We are a district that used Saxon. The program has a spiral that is difficult to follow, especially for students who move in and out of the district. Although all of our state standards are 'covered' they are not taught at a mastery level. Students and teachers rarely have time to remediate or to extend the lesson because the pace is so fast.
We too are considering enVision. It does look like there is a great deal that teachers must do to implement the program. I am wondering how those of you who have piloted the program found the interventions and assessments. Has anyone worked with the Spanish version?

Our district just adopted enVisionMath. The consumables are for K-2nd grade. 3rd -6th grade have a regular book. The 3nd grade book has an otter on the front.

You can buy the K-2nd grade consumable books already torn out and folded. If you're getting this program, look into ordering them that way. It will let you easily change the order for teaching.

I completely disagree with you. The program doesn't only teach shorcuts. It teaches kids to think critically about the problems and gives them strategies that help them better understand operations. It also teaches them the traditional ways to add, subtract and multiply. But if you are used to a program that just does procedures, this one will confuse you as a parent. I, personally would rather see thinking every time. Haven't you heard our old ways of doing math isn't letting our kids compete with kids from other countries? If what we've been doing was so great, why are other countries moving so far ahead of us? I say give the program and you kids teacher a chance.

As a parent with three kids using Envision math I have never been as frustrated and disappointed in a math program. If you start students in this program at kindergarten that will probably work fine, but if you try to introduce this program after that the students don't understand the concepts.

I strongly encourage you to investigate this program before committing to it.

Our teachers are finding that the typical math students is having difficulty with the spiral review. It is troublesome for them to remember concepts previously taught. Additionally the application of concepts is especially challenging for some. This is the major emphasis of Envision, however, some students have such a hard time with the verbal aspects of mathematics.

What are your thoughts? How are you managing this?

We just got it a few weeks ago. It has been hard starting in the middle of the year. The parents like the online aspect and the fact that we now have a math book.
I use the Daily Spiral review as Morning work. we use the Quick Check as a daily assessment and then to determine which homework each child should get, the reteach, the practice page or the enrichment page. I hope it works out.

Every math book is "researched based." Be very careful about this statement. What you should be asking is how this series addresses the concerns of the National Math Advisory Panel. The final report came out in March of 2008. Check it out.

Your right on. most school districts have somehow gotten sucked into this "fuzzy" math programs. Our district is currently using Investigations. This is an awful program. enVisions tries to combined a "fuzzy" math program with a traditional one. The 4th grade book uses incorrect mathematical terms. topics/concepts are taught with more complicated options or they are taught in a terrible sequence. What you should be asking is how this series address the concerns found in the Final Report of the National Math Advisory Panel.

Don't do it. You should be asking how it addresses the recommendations of the National Math Advisory Panel, (NMP). See their final report out in March of 2008. look very closely at how topics progress. The 4th grade book is awful.

Even the NCTM (National Council of Mathematics Teachers) has changed their stance. They now agree with the NMP that a more traditional approach may be needed. Automaticity of basic math facts is essential.

Hi,
You'll be happy to know the K-2 student editions can be ordered in a foldable format just like "Time for Kids" or "Weekly Reader". We ordered this format and LOVE it!

The problem with math/science literacy in this country isn't so much that the traditional teaching methods are bad, it's that most people think people who are good at math are geeks & nerds & being one is their worst nightmare scenario.

I work in a technical area, & when our daughter first called me a geek at age 8 or so, I told her I consider that a compliment because we geeks tend to have jobs that pay well that we actually like, and so many people do not, that once there was a popular song called "Take this Job & Shove It".

Added to this is the fact that if you have a strong math background, you can easily earn a whole lot more in a non-teaching job than in a teaching job.

These huge problems are not going to be addressed by new curricula, particularly if implementing them requires a large mindset shift - too few schools can/will allocate the resources for proper teacher training. Just look at too many of the previous posts...

I think Evision Math Is really challenging for students. My kids strugle even more this year in math than they usally do because of Evison! (I would be prepared for grades lower than usual!)

I hate the fold out consumable pages bc they came in packs of 24...Of course our number of students is ever changing (and always 24+), and the district could not afford to buy an extra pack for each school...Everytime a new student comes, we have to track down one extra paper from EVERY lesson...what a nightmare!

Hello!
Yes, Envision Math is research based. My school was one of the schools in the research program. We just finished the research program this year. If your school board doesn't know about it, it is because it was finished June of this year. Research findings should be made public within the next year, I would think.
My students love the program, and it's been a pleasure to teach once I got used to it.

I am a first grade teacher. My district purchased Envision math. Nearly 80-90 percent of the teachers in my district are very unpleased with it in grades k-2. The upper grades seem to think it is of some value. In my opinion, with Envision math, students are not able to truly gain a deep understanding of concepts (although with how it is designed one might think the opposite). They use pretty packaging and they make it seem as though using Envisions will foster a math thinker in our students....not true at all. The layout is horrible. The language is horrible. So many teachers think they need to use every single component of this program. Not realistic or best practice in my opinion. As educators, we need to step up to the plate and not rely so heavily on ANY program. We need to use our own knowledge of mathematics to guide our instruction. Please do not waste your money on Envision Math!!!!

I am just about to start teaching the envision program for the 1st time. Since we didn't get manuals over the summer, and the rep didn't give correct information for logging on the their website - I have no idea what to expect. Your list intimidates me!! Is it possible to let some of it go? I have an hour to teach math to a combo 1/2 grade class.

BTW - how does the Envision program work with a combo class? Anyone have this experience?

My district is implementing Envision Math this year in grades 1-4 (my building). The administration chose three series for the math committee to review--all investigative-type math series. This is the series they chose, and we are forced to use it.

I teach third grade. In my opinion, the text is too busy, confusing, and complicated. We have all the technology required including Smartboards. My students are quickly bored with the "view" portion of the lesson and some daydream during it. I often skip it and teach the concept myself instead of trying to supplement the video with my explanation. We use the spiral review as independent morning work, but it is text-heavy, and poor readers need help with it. I have seen some good suggestions in earlier posts and am going to try them.

I think that coming years will be easier, because the students will have previous knowledge of the concepts and how they're presented. My students are really having a rough time. My beginning third graders still need very concrete mathematical methods of problem-solving--not abstract ways of solving problems. Unit 1 (Numeration) and Unit 2 (Double Digit Addition) use abstract methods of solving problems that my third graders can't even begin to get their minds around. The unit assessment requires the students to explain, or choose an answer that explains, the abstract method.

I've taught for 27 years in grades 2-6. This math is similar to what I used to teach fifth and sixth graders. The difference is that by that time, they had had enough concrete experiences to EASILY transition to abstract ways of thinking. The little ones haven't had enough problem-solving in the "real world" for the abstract methods to make sense.

This is just my opinion. All I know is that the way things are going with programs like this and the amount of record-keeping (running records, DRA's anyone?), tracking, paperwork, and No Child Left Behind stipulations and pressure, my 30th year will not get here soon enough.

I'm using it this year. I don't use every part of it. I can't! It's too much. I can tell you that after only 2 weeks, I enjoy the first part of the workbook page, since it is hands on. I think it's strange that our district went with a program that is so full of paperwork. Workbook pages galore!! This is so different than Investigations from the last 5 years. The workbook is a nightmare!! I am having parent volunteers come and fold all the pages! Thank God for parents!

I DO like that I can send home part of the folded pages for homework. We are in such a HUGE paper shortage. i don't have to make all those dumb copies from suppemental math books.

Can someone give me some practical tips to start the math program. What to definitely use,
what to throw out. Any help to get through the bs of the program.
thanks
15 year teacher

I couldn't have said it any better... My daughters school just adapted the EnVision math text.
From a parents perspective, the lessons are ridiculous and confusing. I'm actually thinking about pulling my child out of her current school because of this new text.

Ike, Do you also have the Investigations program? My school uses enVision as our core program and Investigations is our supplement. We seemed to have only gotten one Joint Usage Master Plan book per grade level, but I didn't find this out until the school year was nearly over. When searching for the book, it was not in with the rest of my enVision materials. I talked to the person in charge of math curriculum and instruction in my district, and she got me the book. It is a fantastic resource and is available online. Have you registered at Pearson Successnet?

We are using this and many students ARE having trouble. The trouble is that they don't understand math concepts. I guess it is good that we got it now so we can fix that! This math definitely teaches for understanding concepts.

As a substitute teacher and parent, I loathe Envision math. It is hard to step into the classroom, not knowing the curriculum because you teach something different everyday, to come in with no training and try to teach using the Envision math books. The previous books our district used before were MUCH better at explaining and set a better pace. Secondly, as a parent, trying to use the examples they give to help my daughter with her homework is frustrating! Look into other programs before settling on this one.

This is the worst math book I have seen. My child is in the fourth grade and uses this book for math. I recently received a copy of the book since my child is not able to bring the book home. I reviewed the book and was not happy with the way math was being taught. It was too many shortcuts being used and there was not enough explanations on how to solve the problems. For example, the multiplication section was focused on using arrays to solve problems. How about the children learn the multiplication tables.

One poster implied that the old way of doing math is causing our children to fall behind other countries. I have to disagree, the problem is that we do not hold childrenaccountable. I personally do not see anything wrong with teaching the old way, my child understands it better than the book. Another thing, math has not changed since the beginning of time, 2+2 is still 4.

I hate EnVisionmath with a passion. It is supremely FUZZY Math! Its scary that it is the number one selling curriculum in the country, according to its own website. I have kids in K, 3rd and 5th this year; we started with enVision last year with no parent input here in Western Pa and I'll post my long-winded and detailed rant below (just got 3rd grade initial division HW chap. 7 entitled "Writing Division Word Problems" - what were these much researched and highly titled individuals smoking when they developed this, because I'll need it to endure this program!):

I am very concerned that they will not be prepared for real math in high school, even if they all do well in the state's NCLB tests. It is conceptually more difficult than it needs to be while not covering anything in any real depth. In 2nd grade we barely added/subtracted beyond 2-digits using crutches (little placeholder blocks) most of the time. In 3rd grade there are definitely more word problems than straight practice, two-step problems presented when they haven't had anywhere near enough practice to master their facts, problems on the tests that are not in the book (but was in enVision's online material). If you do not have internet access and an account for your child, it will be very difficult to help with the vague and odd homework problems. The tests are multiple choice, with a shorter free-response option test. The spiral reviews make it difficult for the teachers to skip the junk (like the hundreds charts, what a colossal time waster used waaaaaay too much - my son always got that wrong in the multiple choice tests - why can't they just add the damn numbers?). There are new math concepts like "Compatible Numbers" which make no logical sense when applied to addition/subtraction, and the mental math for subtraction was absurd. It would not be an overstatement to say they did more mental math than real problems for third grade addition and subtraction.

We recently started division and in section 7-2, we are doing division word problems with remainders - they have not even divided for all the facts to 12 yet, the book never mentions memorizing the facts, and it does not show them the tables for division at all. It looks like they''ll spend 2 weeks on division if we're lucky, and they only spent about a month to 6 weeks on multiplication. They have the kids deriving the facts using little pictures. They waste tons of time writing out their own word problems. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I never, ever wrote out problems, we just practiced a lot so our poor parents didn't have to teach us themselves at home. Its very Fuzzy Math!!!

EnVision math seems to be a new program for last yr, 2008-2009, and I have not found any reviews yet - the publisher's other series are fuzzy also. It seems to be aligned to our state's standards, which seem to match other states' standards. All my kids-K, 3, and 5- are on chap. 7 now and they will have to keep up to be finished with they need in time for the spring testing (PSSAs here). Texas has its own special version which brags about matching their test. I found several sources including the US Chamber of Commerce which say our standards stink, so to have a new curriculum aligned to our PSSAs is terrible. The teacher materials say to have the kids try to do the lesson/problems themselves first alone or in groups and then have the teacher teach the material - this is "student-centered" approach. Not good according to research studies I found. Another waste of time - if we had to re-invent everything to understand it we'd all still be living in caves.

In the higher grades (goes to 6th for us) enVision has "flexible groupings" - in 4th grade they used a pre-test to divide them up. My son was always in a lower performing group, even though he is pretty bright, but the school never explained the pre-tests or groupings. This year the teacher is more informative and I am wiser - the pre-test consists of 40 multiple choice questions, given online, covering the next 3 or 4 chapters ahead. They are being tested on stuff they haven't learned yet! The teacher wouldn't let me see the pre-test, citing confidentiality, but its online anyway. My son got a 45% but his math teacher said some get in the 20s, and he will skip over stuff and go deeper as needed - something the Pearson materials say it is designed to do with daily assessments and whatnot, but if they spend extra time on a topic they fall behind. Several years ago our school began to supplement the basic facts, so I was surprised they bought another curriculum from the same publisher (Scott Foresman Addison Wesley - it was their "Math" series).

I am sure some kids will breeze through this program, but they may still not be learning what they need for real higher math. This enVision will be very difficult for the poor reader. Some kids (maybe many) will have more trouble with all the word problems especially when they don't know basic computation well yet. It is geared for visual learners. Some kids do not do well on multiple choice tests (there is no space to work out the problems, and organization is crucial for success in Algebra - isn't that what we're all striving for?). At home, we use the online materials so that I know what my son is supposed to be doing; sometimes I do not know what the HW is asking for, even with my background, so I do not know how the mathematically challenged parents - or busy single moms, or people without internet access, whose children are struggling will manage. Our class does not have the nifty whiteboard to show the cute videos (I thought our kids' brains were being fried by too much TV). Our district only cares about the test scores, which went up from last year. A lot of our parents seem to suspect there is something wrong, but we were not given the chance to review it before it was purchased and I do not think anyone really knows about the "new math"-"reform math" -"math wars" or else we would have had more active complaints. I copy the obscure things in case I need examples if I complain to the school board someday.

For you teachers who made it to the end of this (an administrator told me "you can't believe everything you read on the internet" when I expressed concern, so I am trying to be specific in documenting my observations), I hope you are able to delete and supplement in your districts - you know what the kids really need to learn to succeed long term in math.

I'm tutoring a 3rd grade boy who is very confused by the enVision Math program. To tell the truth, I'm confused too, though I way prefer it to Investigations and Everyday math. Just like the poster above, I cannot believe that they flew thru multiplication so quickly and they're already on division--with remainders to boot! What are they thinking? He still doesn't get the concept of multiplication and they've already gone thru all the multiplication facts thru the 12s, with no table for help. I brought him a multiplication table and showed him how to use it, because I really didn't see how else he was going to get the answers, but his teacher told him that this would be cheating. Huh? I asked him a little about what they do in class and whether they use manipulatives or counters and he said no. (I'm taking this with a grain of salt b/c he may not understand my terminology.) Also, he said that every kid in the 3rd grade is extremely confused right now b/c the program is so difficult, but that the 6th graders all think it's too easy. His mother said that the school is talking about holding him back, but from what I can tell, he works hard and doesn't have learning difficulties--I work with sped kids all day every day, and he doesn't seem to have those kinds of problems--I just think they're covering these topics way too quickly.

Well like i said, it's an improvement over investigations--in one school I was in, they spent the entire 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades measuring each other and making pretty little charts and the teachers had to supplement with a "real" math program that they paid for with their own money so the kids wouldn't get behind.

I think you are looking at the sample workbook. Our reps assured us that the student pages come in shrink wrap packets. (Convenient!) I have been to several viewings and a textbook caravan and am really impressed with all Pearson has to offer in ways of Higher Level thinking, problem solving, RTI and DI!! Just my opinion!

We use envision at our school in the second grade. We end up pulling from a lot of other resources. The wording of the math books are very confusing and I think the technology is AWFUL. There were such better choices out there.

Wow! The comments I've seen have been really helpful.
I currently teach grades 5 and 6 math and my school is adopting a new series for next year. We've narrowed down to Envision and Sadlier's Progress in Mathematics. At first glance, I was a die-hard Envision fan, but the more deeply I observe and read reviews, I'm steadily changing my mind!
There are some nice components to the Envision series, and, since I have a sample, I can pull what I like from them to use in the future.
I truly appreciate the honesty about this program.
Are there any thoughts about Progress in Mathematics?

I hope that your skills in math are better than your skills in English. I am worried that you are criticizing this program when you can't even use correct grammar or spelling. I don't think you are familiar enough with the research behind these math programs. They are not teaching shortcuts, they are teaching alternate ways to figure out problems. Not all children learn through the old school method of skill and drill - one size does not fit all in education.

We are also looking at enVision and Sadlier for adoption. enVision reminds me of a non-traditional math text with some traditional practice. The purpose of non-traditional is to get kids thinking about and talking about math. The non-traditional program tries to develop a better understanding of how and why math problems are solved a certain way - and... it explores different ways to find the same answer. Although this type of learning and understanding is phenomenal - as educators, I am not sure that we have enough time in our current school day to do this type of program justice. Because we are so limited in time, I am afraid that we may have to hurry through these concepts without fully developing the objectives and we may leave our students with more questions - ones that parents are not able to answer (because they were taught math as series of numbers and equations to be solved).

***I have looked at many, many textbooks, and I still have not found one that blends the traditional and non-traditional in an equitable way. Any suggestions? I was hoping that enVision would be the one.

**We have also looked at Math Connects - several teachers thought that it was confusing.

**We are looking for a traditional program with extra problem solving and talking about math.

I really enjoy the envision math program. It is wonderful. I hope that my corporation adopts it. It is the best math program I have ever seen. It is wonderful. It is full of excellent learning opportunities for the children. I love it!!

I was extremely disappointed when our district adopted Envision. I teach 1st grade and find the lessons lack a lot of depth. We have been using Saxon math, which I really enjoyed. All programs have holes that need to be filled, but I liked the way Saxon taught UP to the students. Envision seems to teach DOWN. There is no meat, just lots of pretty images (my class thinks the butterfy is gross). I am technologically advanced and love to use it when I can, but this program relies too heavily on images and not enough on manipulation and understanding of a concept.

Saxon constantly reviews concepts so students retain information. They are asked to revisit each concept within a week or two of leaving it. There is not time for loss of information. Envision is to be taught in order without the true spiral of information. Saxon is lacking in problem solving skills, but the purpose of each lesson is to teach the "why" behind the concept. Envision seems to gloss over that and go on to the "here's how to do it." That;s why I hated math until college, when a professor taught me the "why"s. If you are considering envision, do your homework and try to visit a school that uses it.

Several years ago my district adopted Growing with Math which the intermediate teachers hated. We tried to stick to it and didn't. The fifth grade adopted enVisions last year and loved it and fourth grade was just delivered the boxes two days ago. I have to believe it's better than Growing with Math.

Just a quick reply...I wonder if the person who ordered your math knew that the enVision also came in packaged groups like weekly readers that you don't have to tear out. This is what our school ordered so I didn't have to worry about tearing out the pages for each lesson. We have just adopted this series and I am pretty excited about it. From what I can tell, it looks like it will be a great math program! Our school is using this company from K -12th grade.

Background:
I am an electrical engineer (20 years) who actually uses higher-level math on a regular basis for data analysis and circuit design. I am the son of retired school teachers. My mom has a masters in K-8 while my dad has a B.S. and taught high school chemistry.

My sons are in second and fourth grade and are in a school using enVision Math. I've just finished studying math with my youngest.

Rant:
Oh My Word! This has got to be a joke!

When did mathematical equations become "sentences"? Why are we studying what "doubles" are? Who cares what a double is?!? An even more useless concept is a "near double". I agree a foundational vocabulary is necessary for intelligently discussing mathematics, but some of these concepts are completely pointless and a waste of effort. I'd rather he were doing some rote memorization of math tables - an underrated learning tool - than memorizing the definition of a near double.

From my son's definitions via enVision we learn "Whole Add 2 parts to make the whole". At least make the definitions accurate if they are being taught to the students. Whole is a relative term; two (2) parts do not always make a whole. What about 2+1+3=6? Is that a whole and a half? Wow, fuzzy math at work.

And this estimation thing...that should come after a good firm grasp of the essentials. I estimate every day, and it's an extremely useful ability. My ability comes from understanding how to perform the basic mathematics and, more importantly, from having had lots of PRACTICE doing it.

I understand different students learn in different ways. However, I believe that can be accommodated without the "fuzziness" and useless concepts that seem a part this math program. Let's apply a little common sense to the curriculum.

Stepping down from my soapbox, let me say that Crosbycat (Momof4&mechanicalengineer) covered the curriculum problems very well I thought. I leave it to you to read her post.

The school where I teach Kindergarten is starting the Envision in September. I looked through the material and the program seems great. The only problem that I foresee is that there doesn't seem to be enough homework per mini lesson/per unit. That means we have to photo copy from a different resource! Us teachers love to photo copy, don't we?

My school is using Envision for the first time this year and I do not seem to have the scope and sequence. I was looking for a pacing guide for third grade. Anyone have one?

Just finished the first Kinder lesson of envision. Wow, was it was gobbeldy gook. The program took for granted that students would be able to identify and draw shapes and did not provide enough hands on practice just sorting. If you do this lesson my advice is to "sit on the floor, dump out some blocks and practicing sorting by color, size and shape with your students" it would be more beneficial to your little ones. The "test" was a bubble in and was laid out in an extremely confusing manner. I can only hope that the next unit is better.

"Haven't you heard our old ways of doing math isn't letting our kids compete with kids from other countries?"

Incorrect statement!!!!

Because they stick to the "old ways", THEY are advancing because we have people in charge of the educational system that have abandoned the "old way" to experiment with all sorts of programs that JUST DON'T WORK! Once you get into Algebra , where all the other kids simply destroy us, you HAVE to know the BASIC ALGORYTHMS, or "OLD WAYS" or you'll FAIL!!

Kids in other countries don't spend nearly half the time ours do in front of the TV and X-Boxes, and from what I have read so far, is that the biggest concerns from the majority of people on this board is whether the binding a good enough and some crap aboput how the pages fold. INSANE!!

Hello, we are currently waiting for our envision books to come in for 2nd grade. I really want to send home to my parents info of when they will have tests for math. My old curriculum tested them weekly. what is the testing schdule like? Old scott foresman was a quiz one week, the next week a test, the next week a quiz and so on. is that the same? do they have homework on test/quiz days? thanks!

I'm a first grade teacher whose school just adopted enVision Math. It is terrible!!!! The lessons are unclear and VERY confusing, and don't teach the students what they really need to know. We have smartboards and all the relevant technology to go with it, but it doesn't help because the program doesn't actually teach the students the concrete skills they need to succeed in mastering the concepts. I MUCH prefer Everyday math to this crap! I have been using the curriculum minimally, and I usually just end up teaching it my way because the students understand it much better. Overall, if your school is considering it DEFINITELY advise them against it!!!

We started homeschooling though an eschool 6 weeks ago. He is in 1st grade and we are using envision math. I can't tell you how often I've been frustrated and had to call his teacher to ask a question about a concept we are working on . Last weeks frustration was near doubles. It would have us find the near double for say: 4+5,so 4+4 then add 1 more and you get 9. My son was frustrated b/c he knows easily that 4+5=9 and kept saying,but I know the answer is 9. Then it had 5+4,so you double the 5,take 1 away and it's 9. Again,he knew the answer was 9.

I can't imagine trying to do this program with a class full of students. We are working 1:1,my son is bright and still it's time consuming.

I teach First Grade in a Texas school. We are on our third year of SF Envision. It is garbage. I understand wanting children to get "out of the box" but you have to teach them core concepts with proper language and patterns first. You won't find them here. It is taught in "Topic" sections. If you have a First Grader, be prepared. They will get four full days of instruction all year on money. It does not teach it in any logical fashion and on day five they will be expected to know pennies,nickels, dimes, quarters and half dollars and how they all correlate on day five. They'd better get it that week because they will get no other chance to understand money later. The problem is, at first glance is it beautiful and flashy. I went to three days of training on it. Once you spend a week teaching it, you will have a wake up moment. After you spend a year teaching it, while all the powers that be tell you how wonderful it is, you lose sleep over the fact that they are lying to themselves because they have committed to it long term and you are stuck with a long running adoption of garbage that is only costing the children. If you are any power to choose an adoption....run far and run fast from Scott Foresman Envisions. It is a nightmare. To the poster about "near doubles", don't feel bad, your child's teacher hates it too.

We adopted the Envision Math this current school year. It appeared that all the Teachers were "sold" on it based on research and Singapore's teaching methods.

As a Parent, after 4 months of working with my second grade son on his homework assignments, I am TOTALLY DISGUSTED. It tries to add language to math and does a very poor job at it. What is 2 together with 2?

This past couple of weeks I hit a breaking point. Has anyone reviewed this material?

We were doing Estimation activities which made NO SENSE. Every parent and teacher I spoke to was totally confused on what it was trying to teach. An example; it asked to write an "estimation" expression for if you have 49 of one thing and you take away 23 of it. and the Answer was "49 - 23 =". Maybe I don't fully understand the term "estimation" but the answer appears to be the the full math expression not an "estimation" expression.

My son is still getting an "A" in math but definitely this math has lowered his grades and his ability to perform math.

Fortunately, the teachers are starting to realize that this envision Math is missing key math basics and are now supplementing the program with some Math Basics activities.

It sounds like the publisher did great job of marketing this math program to the teachers and schools - I wish they had only spent as much time reviewing and establishing the program.

I've read all your posts and am very concerned with the fact that our school is trying to get us to adopt the Envision Math Series. Teachers...PLEASE give me more feedback after having taught it for more than a year...I esp. want to know about the vocabulary and if concepts are revisited enough that the students retain them...Thank you for any feedback you can provide.

My school switched to envisions math and it is awful. It is the worst ever Especially for the younger grades. Kids need to learn the basic concepts of math instead envisions confuses the children frustrating them. My advise don't go with Envisions.

We just had a rep come from envision and I was very impressed with the program. She said the workbook is just for display only and it actually is packaged in little packet for each lesson. There is one staple to hold it all together so you take the lesson packet out for the day, take it out of the plastic, take the staple out and pass it out to your class.

The thing I was most impressed about is they rewrote their entire book to go with the core standards. I would like to get familiar with them since in the future every grade will have an ISTEP like test that covers these new core standards. The format is the same as the original book with 3 levels of teaching in the lesson, a little pretest to see if they know the concept before they start a unit, so you know where the students should be placed.

They are the only publishers that I know of that have rewritten their textbooks to go with the core standards.

We use envision, I like that there is anamation that goes along with the lesson.
But some concepts they are CRAMMING alot of information in. I have some kido's that still struggling with addition.
Dont tell my district, but I use it as a tool and not as my primary math presentation.

I think the math is too difficult and frustrating not only for the students, but the parents, as well. Why does a 4th or 5th grader need to learn something now at their age, that they won't use until much later in life? I think folks need to rethink what they are putting their young students through. You're taking away their childhood.

Our school district started Envision this year and you can ask anyone at our school, teachers, students, kids, it is a disaster. We are a top ranked school too. The math is presented in a very convoluted way. The 5+4 example above is a good example of this. It's really wacky! Also, to get through the entire book in a year you have to whiz through the topics and a lot of kids are getting left behind I'm afraid. My child is in 3rd grade and there was one chapter on division which took us 1.5 weeks and then we were on to Geometry. So, only 1.5 weeks spent on division for the whole third grade year and that is it. My daughter is making top grades in math but her fundamental knowledge is seriously lacking. She does not have a strong grasp of the multiplication table. Everything is just barely touched on and then the go to something different. I'm really concerned.

This is exactly the problem my daughter's class is having with Envision this year. They are racing to try to finish the book, even skipping some chapters, and end up skimming over topics. There is no deep learning and a lot of kids are being left behind.

Envision is a difficult thing to teach. It changes from day to day because there are so many short cuts to get an answer. I hope your district doesn't adopt it.

In response to the comment about it being troublesome to recall what has been previously taught, children must do that! If they don't recall past lessons, they can't build on those skills. Teaching math must involve a constant review of previously taught material.

Does anyone know how a teacher can have access if their district went with another adoption instead of Envision Math 2.0 Texas? Can I pay for a teacher login?

Malissia

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